Yes, like after continuesly getting splashed for three consecutive days on one vis one.......let's try something different.
Lol.. that is fairly typical.. If they arent winning.. either quit..or whine about it being "unfair".
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Yes, like after continuesly getting splashed for three consecutive days on one vis one.......let's try something different.
I think there is a lot more in there that you may have missed due to the frank nature of his briefing.
Well if Tumansky and Israeli radar is frankness ,then what more I missed there..
Su 30mki not using their radar at combat mode but in training mode.
Links are different so no compartibilty with their AWACS.
Below is the link what was actual their Red flag 08
Livefist: LiveFist Column: Vishnu Som first-hand on what really happened at Red Flag 08
Yes yes.. The video made a little fun of the MKI and we have the defenders coming up with all sorts of canards.
I wonder if I should convey the idea that USAF pilots conduct press briefings drunk to a certain ex-USAF pilot.
Pathetic..
Which is fairly logical..
Did you miss Col fornoff's comment on how the french were there to snoop?
Even the raptor never uses the combat mode in training ex such as ATLC.
Rather I see him parsing MKI against other USAF planes but not ruling them out and advocating the need for F-22... which is a compliment in itself.... If you are ready to take it with an open mind... drunk or not drunk...he made a joke of his professionalism conducting a press briefing... which is against the conduct of militarily men every where... he could have held a private session and not let the video be posted on internet.... It would have been better If he were a politician.
Winning or not winning.... I would post a detailed analysis of the video for you to decide...
This video may help give an insight into the MKI "pilot factor"
part 1 F-15 pilot opinion about the SU-30 MKI at Red Flag - YouTube
About the speaker
Colonel Terrence Fornof (Colonel is equivalent to a Group Captain in the IAF) is an F-15 pilot and the Director of the Requirements and Testing office at the United States Air Force Warfare Center, Nellis AFB, Nevada. The lecture above is a private briefing in August 2008 to a group called the Daedalians. The Daedalians are a local group of retired military pilots.
Per the press statement handed out by Nellis AFB: Col. Fornof did not mean to offend any U.S. allied forces, as he knows firsthand the importance of training with allied forces and the awesome firepower they bring to the fight. His comments during this briefing were his personal opinions and not those of U.S. Air Force Warfare Center or of the Air Force.
Comments and Analysis
Despite Col. Fornof having observed Red Flag up close, his comments should not be treated as the gospel truth - there is a possibility that he is playing to the gallery. His comments carry weight since he is an operational pilot with the USAF but he certainly cannot cover the entire exercise and has no inside knowledge of the way IAF fought. Nevertheless, even though his comments appear to be negative about the IAF to the uninformed listener; overall he has actually praised the IAF and its performance.
The Su-30MKI did not use the data link in the exercise unlike the other air forces. The reason being the HAL supplied system is not compatible with NATO data links neither is the system required to be compatible with NATO. The speaker clearly mentions that the high fratricide ratio in the kills was because of this reason. While NATO air forces are designed to inter operate with each other and carry out joint missions, the IAF is not.
Su-30MKI is equipped with its own data link which can share target information across multiple fighters. IAF is presently inducting A-50EI Phalcon AEW&C aircraft. Red Flag and other exercises before it have seen IAF working very closely with the AWACS crew of the other air force. Operational Data Link (ODL) will be provided to all fighters in the IAF over the coming years.
The IFF system used by IAF is not compatible with NATO standard, hence the need for verbal communication with the controller.
The aircraft were operating their radars on training mode since the actual signals with which the Bars radar operates are kept secret.
The high mix of highly experienced pilots in Ex Cope India, if true, cannot be consistent across all sqns that were involved in the exercise. During Cope India, the 24 Sqn operating Su-30K/MK was first Flanker unit in the IAF and only one of two Su-30 units in the entire IAF at that time. To find a concentration of senior pilots in these squadrons will not be unexpected given that these units will be forging doctrines and tactics and building up a pool of pilots. Per article on Cope India here; Nor did U.S. pilots believe they faced only India's top guns. Instead, they said that at least in some units they faced a mix of experienced and relatively new Indian fighter and strike pilots.. Moreover, the mix of experience needs to be examined for the USAF squadrons as well. The aggressor squadron at Nellis and the F-22 attracts the best in the USA.
MiG-21 Bison does not have an Israeli radar as noted in the lecture. The type is equipped with a Phazotron Kopyo (spear) unit. The Kopyo radar has a 57km detection range against a 5 m^2 (54ft^2) radar cross section, or fighter-sized target. It can track eight targets and shoot at two simultaneously.
Su-30MKI is equipped with Saturn AL-31FP engines, not Turmansky as mentioned in the lecture
Soviet era aircraft were designed to operate from poorly prepared airfields. For example; MiG-29 closes its intakes during taxi and take-off to avoid ingestion of FOD thrown up by the front wheels. In this state the engines are supplied air thru louvres located on upper surface of the leading edge. This design feature is at the cost of significant internal fuel capacity and hence has been eliminated in newer MiG-29 versions starting with the K/KUB variants. Flanker come with lighter anti-FOD grills in the intakes as well as wheel fenders that catch FOD. IAF has precautions built into their SOPs which may be overlooked in case of war or any such exigency. Since the deployment was far away from home base in the USA, with no spares support and related infrastructure it was well worth to observe strict adherence to SOPs instead to being stuck with a grounded aircraft!
This is not the first time the MiG-21 Bison has been praised for successes during dissimilar air combat training (DACT) even during previous USAF exercise and internal IAF exercises pilots are known to have scored kills against more advanced adversaries. The small size (lower visual signature) and inherently small radar cross section coupled with modern avionics, radar, effective jammers, precision guided munitions and missiles (R-73, R-77) make Bison one of the best fighters in IAF after Su-30 and Mirage-2000. IAFs has had good experience with small jets such as Gnat which earned the reputation of Sabre Slayer in the 1965 war with Pakistan. The under-development LCA Tejas promises to carry on this legacy when it replaces the Bison.
Under the glare of the worlds attention the IAF pilots, crew and their aircraft have clearly acquitted themselves well in Ex Red Flag 2008. This exercise was the most complex environment IAF worked in, even more than the Cope Thunder exercise in Alaska where Jaguar IS fighters had participated. The challenges faced were because of the operational environment, training rules and airspace restriction where the IAF is not expected to fight a war in any case. Shortcomings must have come up but then that is exactly why IAF is training for.
But they got AWACS and latest IFF on their side so is Rafale ..Rafale was using Spectra EW too and If you read that blog it clearly says once AWACS availablity is low then many of jets including Su 30mki were shot down due to fagricides..
His mistake on the press briefing was not his alone.
It was a local media and DV event at Nellis. Nothing Classified.
he may have taken the fall.
Moreover.. if not for the massive PR fallout in India.
this would have gone unnoticed by most laymen.
I do not disagree that he praised the MKI.
I stated it for reference on operational issues that the MKi may have been facing..
specifically with the pilot exp and the BISON lineage comments of his.
I hope the analysis is from an expert with pilot hours?
His mistake on the press briefing was not his alone.
It was a local media and DV event at Nellis. Nothing Classified.
he may have taken the fall.
Moreover.. if not for the massive PR fallout in India.
this would have gone unnoticed by most laymen.
I do not disagree that he praised the MKI.
I stated it for reference on operational issues that the MKi may have been facing..
specifically with the pilot exp and the BISON lineage comments of his.
I hope the analysis is from an expert with pilot hours?
Yes yes.. The video made a little fun of the MKI and we have the defenders coming up with all sorts of canards.
I wonder if I should convey the idea that USAF pilots conduct press briefings drunk to a certain ex-USAF pilot.
Pathetic..
Sorry about flying hours I cannot give you any thing about flying hours.... all I know my self is from various forums, a few friends and a few friends from facebook.... athough I have a Mammo and a far away Chacha in AF they don't tell any thing.
thankfully.. I do have a little more connections in that regard.
If you wish for a brief comment by a USAF pilot (not chogy) I can arrange that..
I can give you the opinions of two PAF pilots from opposite ends of the spectrum
One was recently a lecturer in AWC(air war college)
the other is a PG pilot..
which ever you prefer..
it will be through me.. so I may only go ahead if you trust me on this.
That would be nice of you.. please go ahead.
Ok.. will require the usual time... as earlier.