The Pentagon's new China war plan

[LeGenD]

but your lips is all up and down the us asscheeks

I am giving you a reality check.

Even your high ranking military official stated this not long ago:

Chinese general: We’re no match for U.S. - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times

Now say that his lips is all up and down the us asscheeks.

and yet they retreated from vietnam, failed in north korea,

And yet they won the COLD WAR? You guys do not see the big picture.

about to retreat in afganistan.

Send your forces in to Afghanistan and you will learn why it is called graveyard of empires.

1st china has 76 cities,

From wikipedia. Update it please.

now they have 50 nukes. what other statistics can you pull out your asscrack?

Chinese most effective ICBM inventory as per good source. Check post number 69.

nothing isn't

Right.

no. you overestimate them. which isn't a bad thing, but you can't do it to one side and not the other.

They pulled off Operation Neptune Spear recently and that too near the heart of Pakistan. This feat alone confirmed my assertions since the day I joined this forum. Many were disappointed, specially those who continued/continue to underestimate US military capabilities.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

LeGenD, what would be your advice to China in this situation?

 

[PakShah]

@legend


"No. I keep a nuetral perspective. I don't favor any side."
but your lips is all up and down the us asscheeks


"As of yet, USA is the most powerful nation in the world. If you think otherwise, it is your personal opinion."
and yet they retreated from vietnam, failed in north korea, about to retreat in afganistan. not my opinion, just looking at historical facts.


"With just 50 nukes? Their is no guarantee that all of them can hit mainland USA. I have provided the reasons. "
1st china has 76 cities, now they have 50 nukes. what other statistics can you pull out your asscrack?


"Debatable."
nothing isn't



"No. I like to give them reality check too. I do not underestimate my enemies."
no. you overestimate them. which isn't a bad thing, but you can't do it to one side and not the other.

LeGenD, is known for his controversial opinions, and he is quite disliked for it, you are not the only one.
If his opinions are utter nonsense it will appear as utter nonsense and should be condemned and countered.

 

[PakShah]

I am giving you a reality check.

Even your high ranking military official stated this not long ago:

Chinese general: We’re no match for U.S. - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times

Now say that his lips is all up and down the us asscheeks.


And yet they won the COLD WAR? You guys do not see the big picture.




Send your forces in to Afghanistan and you will learn why it is called graveyard of empires.


From wikipedia. Update it please.


Chinese most effective ICBM inventory as per good source. Check post number 69.


Right.


They pulled off Operation Neptune Spear recently and that too near the heart of Pakistan. This feat alone confirmed my assertions since the day I joined this forum. Many were disappointed, specially those who continued/continue to underestimate US military capabilities.

USA won the cold war because the USSR killed itself, and Gorbachev aided in destroying his own country.
Maybe if Gorbachev listened to Deng Xiaoping, the USSR would still be around.

Also why should China go and invade Afghanistan? The Chinese have nothing against the Afghanistanis and vice versa.

 

[below_freezing]

I am giving you a reality check.

Even your high ranking military official stated this not long ago:

Chinese general: We’re no match for U.S. - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times

The US also said Iraq posed a threat to the US mainland

He's actually begging for budget increases, from the State Council and Politburo. What's he supposed to say lol? "We will bury you!" like the Russians did, and then buried themselves?

 

[LeGenD]

LeGenD, what would be your advice to China in this situation?

My friend, just do not try to provoke USA or play with its political games. Never go down the path of USA. Wars can be counter-productive to a nation's progress and reputation.

Try to build good relationship with US allies in your neighbourhood, if you want to limit US military foothold and influence around your borders.

US always looks to exploit political and internal weaknesses of its potential enemies and rivals. Potential exploitation hotspots in your case are India, Vietnam, Taiwan, and Japan.

You guys have great potential and Pakistan looks forward to be your exceptional partner. I too strongly believe in Pak-China friendship.

Believe me! it would be in the least interest of Pakistan to see China getting harmed.

With passage of time, you guys may match US supermacy in any field. Therefore, excercise patience and good politics. Keep a big stick but only to defend your nation. :smile:

 

[LeGenD]

LeGenD, is known for his controversial opinions, and he is quite disliked for it, you are not the only one.
If his opinions are utter nonsense it will appear as utter nonsense and should be condemned and countered.

I am known for stating FACTS and giving misguided people reality checks.

USA won the cold war because the USSR killed itself, and Gorbachev aided in destroying his own country.
Maybe if Gorbachev listened to Deng Xiaoping, the USSR would still be around.

Some major reasons for Soviet Collapse:

• Socialism failed economically - stagnation, no-reform efforts for years
• Popular opposition and Nationalism killed the USSR
• Competition with the West killed it - guns not butter, equality with the USA, but no $$$$- SDI
• Gorbachev reforms opened the pandora box
• Party officials killed for personal gain
• Boris Yeltsin - for personal power

Also why should China go and invade Afghanistan? The Chinese have nothing against the Afghanistanis and vice versa.

Just wanted to give some reality check to member ZhengHe.

The US also said Iraq posed a threat to the US mainland

He's actually begging for budget increases, from the State Council and Politburo. What's he supposed to say lol? "We will bury you!" like the Russians did, and then buried themselves?

The whole world knows that Iraq was Bush's personal affair.

Any person who took Bush propaganda against Iraq seriously is a fool.

 

[PakShah]

I am known for stating FACTS and giving misguided people reality checks.


Some major reasons for Soviet Collapse:

• Socialism failed economically - stagnation, no-reform efforts for years
• Popular opposition and Nationalism killed the USSR
• Competition with the West killed it - guns not butter, equality with the USA, but no $$$$- SDI
• Gorbachev reforms opened the pandora box
• Party officials killed for personal gain
• Boris Yeltsin - for personal power

Just wanted to give some reality check to member ZhengHe.


The whole world knows that Iraq was Bush's personal affair.

Any person who took Bush propaganda against Iraq seriously is a fool.

I thought Saddam Hussein wanted to peg the Iraqi currency to some other currency, which would have challenged USA supremacy in the world.

 

[Swatwolf]

A few isn't enough. They can rebuild. But even with a 20% interception rate they're still losing their top 30 cities.

I can't even count 30 cities in the US with a population over 500,000, so you can imagine how painful it will be for the US if they try nuking us.

The best way is 10 years of peace, but just remember, you don't choose war, war chooses you; those who choose war, live by the sword and die by the sword.

That is not how nukes work, the modern nuke which could be mounted on a warhead have no way near the destructive capabilities combined to destroy a city, to put it simply all the nukes mounted on missiles combined dispersed evenly cannot destroy a moderate sized country. The applications of nuke for destroying cities or life as we know it is fantasy. Even exploded at so called optimal range for destruction it will have no more than a blast radius of a few miles. What nukes are used for is for it's HEMP effect. Explode it above the atmosphere and you will create an emp blast radius so wide that what limits the emp destruction of nuclear weapons within the atmosphere no longer holds when in space, that is the primary destruction of nuclear weapons, a few nuclear emp bomb in space can bring down technologies across the entire world, while all the nukes in the world combined is not enough to destroy 2% of the world. The application of nukes on the ground is to target military installations, to target financial hubs, but it will not end life as we know it.

 

[below_freezing]

That is not how nukes work, the modern nuke which could be mounted on a warhead have no way near the destructive capabilities combined to destroy a city, to put it simply all the nukes mounted on missiles combined dispersed evenly cannot destroy a moderate sized country. The applications of nuke for destroying cities or life as we know it is fantasy. Even exploded at so called optimal range for destruction it will have no more than a blast radius of a few miles. What nukes are used for is for it's HEMP effect. Explode it above the atmosphere and you will create an emp blast radius so wide that what limits the emp destruction of nuclear weapons within the atmosphere no longer holds when in space, that is the primary destruction of nuclear weapons, a few nuclear emp bomb in space can bring down technologies across the entire world, while all the nukes in the world combined is not enough to destroy 2% of the world. The application of nukes on the ground is to target military installations, to target financial hubs, but it will not end life as we know it.

The fireball radius isn't the big problem. The pressure wave is, for buildings. Actually, humans can withstand higher pressure gradients than most buildings can, and even survivors will be crushed by falling buildings. Especially if a nuke was detonated in a high density area like New York or Tokyo, the effect will be exactly like a huge earthquake with epicenter right at the surface + radiation + fireball + EMP.

 

[Swatwolf]

The fireball radius isn't the big problem. The pressure wave is, for buildings. Actually, humans can withstand higher pressure gradients than most buildings can, and even survivors will be crushed by falling buildings. Especially if a nuke was detonated in a high density area like New York or Tokyo, the effect will be exactly like a huge earthquake with epicenter right at the surface + radiation + fireball + EMP.

Sorry but the effects including the blast crater + the emp effect i mention on a modern nuke mountable as a warhead will have a radius of no more than a few miles unless exploded much further above the ground, nukes can be used to disrupt a financial hub or destroy a military installation, it can cost heavy lost of life when used on densely populated areas, but it will not cause earthquakes as you mention, unless exploding it at the bottom of a seabed causing techtonic shifts, exploding it on the surface on the earth will not bring about the type of Armageddon that you imagine.

 

[below_freezing]

Sorry but the effects including the blast crater + the emp effect i mention on a modern nuke mountable as a warhead will have a radius of no more than a few miles unless exploded much further above the ground, nukes can be used to disrupt a financial hub or destroy a military installation, it can cost heavy lost of life when used on densely populated areas, but it will not cause earthquakes as you mention, unless exploding it at the bottom of a seabed causing techtonic shifts, exploding it on the surface on the earth will not bring about the type of Armageddon that you imagine.

Not *earthquake* as in literally, but the pressure gradient resulting in building collapse will be ESSENTIALLY the same.

Lets try to estimate the destruction of a nuclear weapon.

Exploding it on the surface... lets see. the radius of the total destruction pressure wave of the 20 kt bomb at Hiroshima was 1.6 km. If we crudly assume that blast energy levels scale 1:1 with tonnage while energy would (roughly; not taking into account things like reflection by the ground) reduced to the cube of distance, a 3 megaton bomb 150 times as powerful as the Hiroshima bomb will have a total destruction radius 150^(1/3) times that of the Hiroshima bomb = 8.50 km in radius. Area of total destruction would be 227 km2.

Assume such a bomb was dropped straight in Manhattan. 87.5 km2 in area. 1.6 million inhabitants.

Well, they're all vaporized.

However, NYC itself has land area of 789.4 km2. Lets assume that outside of Manhattan, it destroys the 1/3 of total New York Area. (225-85) km2* 10,630 people/km2 = 1488200 dead.

So basically, a 3 megaton nuke on New York would destroy 1/3 the city and kill 3 million people. Kind of disappointing.

Maybe MIRV'ed nukes on Tokyo would be more effective.

 

[Swatwolf]

Or an Mirv over Shanghai or Beijing for that matter, it doesn't matter, it's a creates huge loss of life, it create human disaster and in the end it will be all for nothing, as it will never achieve it's desired effect as a tool for terror.

 

[below_freezing]

Or an Mirv over Shanghai or Beijing for that matter, it doesn't matter, it's a creates huge loss of life, it create human disaster and in the end it will be all for nothing, as it will never achieve it's desired effect as a tool for terror.

Sure it will achieve something. Kill people, destroy financial/political/industrial centers, pollute the environment with radiation, and drastically lower the GDP and currency value of whatever country is nuked.

 

[Swatwolf]

Sure it will achieve something. Kill people, destroy financial/political/industrial centers, pollute the environment with radiation, and drastically lower the GDP and currency value of whatever country is nuked.

Once the first nuke is dropped, economy will be a forethought, we can kiss the age of information technology good bye, the war will be ended in space, not on earth, that is the highest form of MAD, what happens next is anyone's guess, China will not escape it's consequences, but the fact is they do not run an empire so they might be able to better cope with a nuclear fallout and the collapse of their economy, the USA on the other-hand is financed on empire, there is no doubt they have far more to lose in the collapse of their own economy. Human beings will thrive just fine, life on earth will continue just drastically altered.