The Pentagon's new China war plan

[BanglaBhoot]

Funny indeed coming out from a military and social reject. I guess UN's friendly plan for an Alien Ambassador became American plans for alien assassins? Your ridiculous claims is a clear indication of your detachment to mankind, society and reality. I would like to see grounded F-22's and F-35's handle fleets of Alien spaceships and see how the perceived adversary turn mouthy Americans such as yourselves into preys.

The key movie on this is BATTLE: LOS ANGELES.

 

[Obambam]

The key movie on this is BATTLE: LOS ANGELES.

I wonder why aliens always picks on America? Humans should broadcast these movies into space and see what the aliens make of it.

 

[Farooq]

BS article from obscure source. Try some other source ! Oh wait, you may not find such crap !

Actually, Salon.com is a very credible source. Here in the US they have been quoted many times in print, radio and electronic media outlets

 

[gambit]

Actually, Salon.com is a very credible source. Here in the US they have been quoted many times in print, radio and electronic media outlets

These articles are more for sensationalism than for genuine reportage. As I pointed out already, Thomas Allen, a NatGeo contributor, wrote about such planning and wargaming back in 1987. Pentagon regulars are quite blase about this subject.

 

[Farooq]

These articles are more for sensationalism than for genuine reportage. As I pointed out already, Thomas Allen, a NatGeo contributor, wrote about such planning and wargaming back in 1987. Pentagon regulars are quite blase about this subject.

If you read the article carefully, the article is highlighting the dangers of the the self-destructive American hegemony of the South China Sea at the expense of her economy.
Hence, the losers are the American people and the beneficiary is the Military Industrial Complex.

 

[LeGenD]

How can usa look at taking on china. they cant even control a couple of thousand blokes in pyjamas and slippers with obsolete weapons in afghanistan

US did not went all out in Afghanistan. And neither it has plans to do so. Taliban is not a threat to US mainland security. Al-Qaeda was once considered to be and it has been taken care off.

Against China, it would be entire US military might.

No question we would work with china. Whatever we could do i would say

Not possible in our current state. Do not forget the impact of US pressure and leverage over our policy makers.

At the most, we can offer to mediate between both sides to back down. Any direct assistence to any side from us will get noticed and consequences will be expected.

japan and south korea would be on the forefront of such an event. these 2 countries, or more accurately, these two outpost of the US military empire will serve as the 1st line of cannon fodder against china.

after them, the US will try to push vietnam and the philippines to serve as the 2nd line of cannon fodders.

the US will likely not confront China directly if they have all these disposable states ready to go with a little "here are some weapons, i got your back" suggestion.

it will then depend on how fast china can retaliate and assume victory over these disposable countries. when the US does this they are basically putting these countries up for grabs, since in such an event china won't just retaliate, it will outright invade and take over.

if these countries become overpowered quickly china will be able to expand and create an empire and the US will be kicked out of asia. to prevent this from happening, the US might directly engage China.

and then WW3 has officially begun.

It is not easy to occupy all these countries as it may theoratically seem to be. China will walk in to a trap, if it ventures in to these countries to contain US advance. Once the Chinese military gets bogged down, US military forces can take full advantage of the situation and destroy much of the Chinese forces stationed inside these countries.

The only thing that saves China from a potential invasion is its nuclear weapons. However, China needs nuclear deterrence like Russia. Its current missile inventory is insignificant to nuetralize the ever-expanding US missile shield options.

Side note:

Guys, what is so funny about preparing for a potential alien invasion? Even though I doubt that this will happen because I believe as per my faith that mankind is most advanced race in the Universe.

However, just in case; If something hostile is coming at you from outerspace. I would like to use weapons under my disposal to take it out.

And US has already demontrated the capability to hit comets or land machines on them.

 

[below_freezing]

US did not went all out in Afghanistan. And neither it has plans to do so. Taliban is not a threat to US mainland security. Al-Qaeda was once considered to be and it has been taken care off.

Against China, it would be entire US military might.


Not possible in our current state. Do not forget the impact of US pressure and leverage over our policy makers.

At the most, we can offer to mediate between both sides to back down. Any direct assistence to any side from us will get noticed and consequences will be expected.


It is not easy to occupy all these countries as it may theoratically seem to be. China will walk in to a trap, if it ventures in to these countries to contain US advance. Once the Chinese military gets bogged down, US military forces can take full advantage of the situation and destroy much of the Chinese forces stationed inside these countries.

The only thing that saves China from a potential invasion is its nuclear weapons. However, China needs nuclear deterrence like Russia. Its current missile inventory is insignificant to nuetralize the ever-expanding US missile shield options.

Side note:

Guys, what is so funny about preparing for a potential alien invasion? Even though I doubt that this will happen because I believe as per my faith that mankind is most advanced race in the Universe.

However, just in case; If something hostile is coming at you from outerspace. I would like to use weapons under my disposal to take it out.

And US has already demontrated the capability to hit comets or land machines on them.

No one knows China's actual nuclear arsenal size. Did the US have even 1 hint about our underground missile facility 100 m below the surface before we announced its existence in 2009? Nope.

Our assembled arsenal size is whats open to the public. There are also warheads in storage.

What would possibly limit China's procurement of additional nukes? Money, technology and political will are all not issues, so the dumbest thing to do is to assume, nothing changed for 20 years.

 

[gambit]

Side note:

Guys, what is so funny about preparing for a potential alien invasion? Even though I doubt that this will happen because I believe as per my faith that mankind is most advanced race in the Universe.

However, just in case; If something hostile is coming at you from outerspace. I would like to use weapons under my disposal to take it out.

And US has already demontrated the capability to hit comets or land machines on them.

Very good. I was waiting for someone with a bit more critical thinking skills to bring up that question. The Voyager probe contains a golden plate with some basic information about humanity. We have Project SETI, of which I have been a financial supporter and donated computer resources for years. We have the UN created a panel just in case we do have such an encounter. Science and scientific reasons compelled many of us, from lay people to top scientists, to take this issue seriously and we responded by creating plans. Peaceful plans. But the idea that we should have a not-so-peaceful alternative is simply too absurd to contemplate.

The reason why much mockery is spewed in this side subject is because the Chinese found themselves severed from the main subject, which is the US-China war plans. I showed everyone how this article is far short of a much older and more comprehensive treatise on the subject. They have no ammunition. This side subject is a water pistol and they are squirting for their worth.

 

[LeGenD]

No one knows China's actual nuclear arsenal size. Did the US have even 1 hint about our underground missile facility 100 m below the surface before we announced its existence in 2009? Nope.

Our assembled arsenal size is whats open to the public. There are also warheads in storage.

What would possibly limit China's procurement of additional nukes? Money, technology and political will are all not issues, so the dumbest thing to do is to assume, nothing changed for 20 years.

Strategic assets are always expected to be shrouded in secrecy.

However, intelligence gathering techniques have also vastly improved with passage of time and nothing remains hidden forever. This still does not ensures that we know everything about Chinese strategic assets. However, we have to make do with what we have got.

Here is the current status of missile inventory of China from a good source:



Fact is that China currently have limited nuclear offensive options against USA because of its expanding missile shield and US have overwhelming nuclear counter-strike options.

You guys are not yet in the position to effectively pull off MAD with USA. Only Russia has the capability to do so currently.

However, situation may change in the future but by that time USA might be protected by a very capable missile shield. Point is that Cold War was never an easy business. Russia learned this the hard way. We shall see that how you guys will put up with your inevitable Cold War with USA.

 

[below_freezing]

Strategic assets are always expected to be shrouded in secrecy.

However, intelligence gathering techniques have also vastly improved with passage of time and nothing remains hidden forever. This still does not ensures that we know everything about Chinese strategic assets. However, we have to make do with what we have got.

Here is the current status of missile inventory of China from a good source:



Fact is that China currently have limited nuclear offensive options against USA because of its expanding missile shield and US have overwhelming nuclear counter-strike options.

You guys are not yet in the position to pull off MAD with USA. Only Russia has the capability to do so currently.

However, situation may change in the future but by that time USA might be protected by a very capable missile shield.

NTI: China - Nuclear Disarmament
NTI: United States - Nuclear Disarmament

US: Operational warheads: approximately 570 megatons[7]
China: 3. Estimated Destructive Power: 294[6]

Russia has 1273 MT btw.

As for the US "missile shield"

US Territorial Missile Fails Intercept Test | SpaceNews.com
Failure of the US anti-missile shield by Ajay Lele
Long-range missile defense test fails - CNN

Contrast...

2010 Chinese anti-ballistic missile test - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[below_freezing]

BTW I added up the lowest yields for the list you provided. The final answer was 218 megatons, excluding H-6 bombs and cruise missiles. So the 274 MT is probably accurate if you use the upper limit of yields and include H-6 and cruise missiles.

With the JL-2, DF-31A and DF-5, we can take out about 50 US cities. The top 50 US cities contain 80% of the US population and 90% of its industry. Excluding fallout. The US isn't crazy enough to risk it.

 

[LeGenD]

NTI: China - Nuclear Disarmament
NTI: United States - Nuclear Disarmament

US: Operational warheads: approximately 570 megatons[7]
China: 3. Estimated Destructive Power: 294[6]

Russia has 1273 MT btw.

Thanks for the links. They are good.

However, total yield based argument is a very poor one. Delivery systems matter the most.

Point is that if US can fire 500 nuclear missiles at your country and most of them hit their targets, just think what would be left of your country.

As for the US "missile shield"

US Territorial Missile Fails Intercept Test | SpaceNews.com
Failure of the US anti-missile shield by Ajay Lele
Long-range missile defense test fails - CNN

Contrast...

2010 Chinese anti-ballistic missile test - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Missile Defence Systems around the world are not very mature as of yet. What they can do is to limit the amount of damage recieved from enemy strikes.

30 GMD were deployed at the end of 2010. We cannot declare that all of them will fail to intercept any incoming missiles. In addition, their are secondary layers of defensive systems in place. THAAD is a good example and it is very capable system.

My point is that you cannot expect all of your missiles to hit the mainland USA due to these systems in place. And this is to assume, if you survive from the initial attack to launch secondary strikes in the first place.

BTW I added up the lowest yields for the list you provided. The final answer was 218 megatons, excluding H-6 bombs and cruise missiles. So the 274 MT is probably accurate if you use the upper limit of yields and include H-6 and cruise missiles.

With the JL-2, DF-31A and DF-5, we can take out about 50 US cities. The top 50 US cities contain 80% of the US population and 90% of its industry. Excluding fallout. The US isn't crazy enough to risk it.

See above.

 

[below_freezing]

500 nukes is about 1/3 the total US arsenal, so the explosive force is about 180 megatons. It takes 3 megatons to take down a large city. So the US can take down China's top 60 cities. Our top 60 cities have an aggregate population of 300 million, so we'll lose 1/4 our population and about 80% of our industry. That's bigger, but comparable to the damage we'd cause the US if we nuked out their top 50.

 

[LeGenD]

500 nukes is about 1/3 the total US arsenal, so the explosive force is about 180 megatons. It takes 3 megatons to take down a large city. So the US can take down China's top 60 cities. Our top 60 cities have an aggregate population of 300 million, so we'll lose 1/4 our population and about 80% of our industry. That's bigger, but comparable to the damage we'd cause the US if we nuked out their top 50.

Not all Chinese cities are of the same size. Some are big and some are small. Also, atomic explosive power matters less. The worst thing is the radiation which will kill much more and prevent potential re-settlements.

Here are US strike options:

500 ground based ICBM (1st strike)
500 SLBM (2nd strike)
USAF (3rd strike)

Seriously, stop assuming that your country will survive all out US nuclear strike.

 

[below_freezing]

I disgree. Not all Chinese cities are of the same size. Some are big and some are small. Also, atomic explosive power matters less. The worst thing is the radiation which will kill much more and prevent potential re-settlements.

Here are US strike options:

500 ground based ICBM (1st strike)
500 SLBM (2nd strike)
USAF (3rd strike)

Seriously, stop assuming that your country will survive all out US nuclear strike.

I also didn't factor in the radiation from Chinese nukes. How many Americans will survive that?

We can go through a calculation of urban areas but most Chinese cities in the top 100 are realistically on the scale of 10000-15000 km2 with few exceptions.

No, China will probably not survive a US nuclear strike but the US is also very unlikely to survive a Chinese nuclear strike.