The PAF is set to receive a batch of Egyptian Air Force Mirage-Vs

[Nomad40]

Friend, no one knows the state in which these EAF birds are in; most like in mid to poor. Mostly likely to be recobbled up and salvaged where needed; others will cannabilised for parts. conservatively out of the 30+; let us say 16 will work out.

If PAF gets 5 recoverable than that's an achievement. the sole purpose of an aircraft is to fly, If the plane needs to be transported than that is a big problem. I believe the Mirages can make the trip in one leg.

Another factor is that of the Egyptian C-130. Most logical sense would be that our IL-76 would make the trips and bring them in but shipping them in will be the most cost effective solution.

People dont Understand how complex it is to integrate, train and arm new systems, besides that Mirage ROSE 3 is the most advanced strike mirage.

Rc-400 probably scrapped, radars cannot survive that long without care, and even if we did get the radars the bulk of our weapon systems are unique and will need hours of coding and upgrades to com channels. The bulk of our offensive weapons are unique to Pakistan only and that needs to be understood.

If any thing a few aircraft might be salvaged probably using our engines I dont think the Horus will have a working engine I would not trust the Egyptians with maintenance of a retired air-craft stored in a desert in +50 -3 conditions.

No, because they aren’t any better than 70’s aircraft and the additional logistics and training required to integrate them would offset any “scrap” value.

The mirages we know inside out - when they land any PAF mirage pilot can strap in and take them to war tomorrow. A Pakistani Mirage technician can change the engine or radar set on it - and an engineer can easily add a hypersonic cruise missile onto it knowing exactly where to run the wiring from and where to draw power and how much from.
Most Parts for the mirages can be taken from a EL to a Blue Flash to a Horus and bought in bulk for discount.

This was true in 1980 for blue flash 6, EL or DD or any of those we bought in the years before this. All the while this commonality reduces costs across the both horizontal and vertical PAF operations; while reducing ancillary losses due to commissions,corruption and mismanagement of funds.

They cannot do that with a JH-7 if they were bought in the 90’s and then parts, training, maintenance will require all new processes that will add to the PAF’s costs.

Ask our neighbor what happens to their budget when it gets cut around 10 different aircraft types with their added commissions and mismanagement.

Hi,

Please delete this,

Thank's
sincerely Mirage battle commander.

 

[StormBreaker]

No, because they aren’t any better than 70’s aircraft and the additional logistics and training required to integrate them would offset any “scrap” value.

The mirages we know inside out - when they land any PAF mirage pilot can strap in and take them to war tomorrow. A Pakistani Mirage technician can change the engine or radar set on it - and an engineer can easily add a hypersonic cruise missile onto it knowing exactly where to run the wiring from and where to draw power and how much from.
Most Parts for the mirages can be taken from a EL to a Blue Flash to a Horus and bought in bulk for discount.

This was true in 1980 for blue flash 6, EL or DD or any of those we bought in the years before this. All the while this commonality reduces costs across the both horizontal and vertical PAF operations; while reducing ancillary losses due to commissions,corruption and mismanagement of funds.

They cannot do that with a JH-7 if they were bought in the 90’s and then parts, training, maintenance will require all new processes that will add to the PAF’s costs.

Ask our neighbor what happens to their budget when it gets cut around 10 different aircraft types with their added commissions and mismanagement.

I still feel disappointed that given our inside out experience of decades with Mirages,
We didn’t make our own Mirage airframes secretively, While creating an illusion of it being an old airframe.

Surely an Org that can make Thunder can utilize MRF and AMF for such purpose with a bit of help from China for Moulds and structure.

 

[SQ8]

If PAF gets 5 recoverable than that's an achievement. the sole purpose of an aircraft is to fly, If the plane needs to be transported than that is a big problem. I believe the Mirages can make the trip in one leg.

Another factor is that of the Egyptian C-130. Most logical sense would be that our IL-76 would make the trips and bring them in but shipping them in will be the most cost effective solution.

People dont Understand how complex it is to integrate, train and arm new systems, besides that Mirage ROSE 3 is the most advanced strike mirage.

Rc-400 probably scrapped, radars cannot survive that long without care, and even if we did get the radars the bulk of our weapon systems are unique and will need hours of coding and upgrades to com channels. The bulk of our offensive weapons are unique to Pakistan only and that needs to be understood.

If any thing a few aircraft might be salvaged probably using our engines I dont think the Horus will have a working engine I would not trust the Egyptians with maintenance of a retired air-craft stored in a desert in +50 -3 conditions.


Hi,

Please delete this,

Thank's
sincerely Mirage battle commander.

Why?

 

[Nomad40]

Why?

what?

 

[StormBreaker]

what?

*Delete*

 

[untitled]

I still feel disappointed that given our inside out experience of decades with Mirages,
We didn’t make our own Mirage airframes secretively, While creating an illusion of it being an old airframe.

Because the JF17 was supposed to replace all the Mirages as well. But then politics happened and we couldn't get the original components envisioned for the Thunder. It was then we realised we not only needed a mini F16 (JF17) but also needed a mini Mirage.

Hence the Mirages will soldier on for now

 

[StormBreaker]

Because the JF17 was supposed to replace all the Mirages as well. But then politics happened and we couldn't get the original components envisioned for the Thunder. It was then we realised we not only needed a mini F16 (JF17) but also needed a mini Mirage.

Hence the Mirages will soldier on for now

Current components are better than what we envisioned for, I think whatever happened, was for our best,
Italy or France won’t give you what China is providing us now in terms of missiles and avionics, shortfalls here and there but just a matter of time

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Because the JF17 was supposed to replace all the Mirages as well. But then politics happened and we couldn't get the original components envisioned for the Thunder. It was then we realised we not only needed a mini F16 (JF17) but also needed a mini Mirage.

Hence the Mirages will soldier on for now

JF-17 cannot replace the Mirage. Mirage 3/5 have a unique space in Pakistan that can only be replaced by an equivalent deep strike fighter, which will sooner or later be acquired. JF17, in its blocks, replaces the A5 (complete), F6(complete), F7P (complete), F7PG (underway) and then F16 Peace Eagle Blk 15. Other aircraft shall be acquired meanwhile to replace the mighty Mirage. However, you are correct to assume that in some roles and tasks, such as AD and AS, JF17 being a truly multi-role bird, is doing roles where Mirage was originally serving.

 

[Nomad40]

JF-17 cannot replace the Mirage. Mirage 3/5 have a unique space in Pakistan that can only be replaced by an equivalent deep strike fighter, which will sooner or later be acquired. JF17, in its blocks, replaces the A5 (complete), F7P (complete), F7PG (underway) and then F16 Peace Eagle Blk 15. Other aircraft shall be acquired meanwhile to replace the mighty Mirage. However, you are correct to assume that in some roles and tasks, such as AD and AS, JF17 being a truly multi-role bird, is doing roles where Mirage was originally serving.

The bulk of our offensive capability has been built around the mirage, I personally think by assessing the history of PAF that the mirages are going nowhere for a decade, either the PAF can temper the standoff weapons for the jf-17 or induct newer platform------PAF needs to go under modernization and it need's to be quick.

The indian's are bridging the gap we need to equidistant it as we did with the F-16.

 

[volatile]

What an irony we are marketing JF17 thunder to Egyptians to replace Mirages and we are buying those Mirages as our JF17 cant fulfill that role according to posters

 

[SQ8]

What an irony we are marketing JF17 thunder to Egyptians to replace Mirages and we are buying those Mirages as our JF17 cant fulfill that role according to posters

Whats ironic about it?
In the 70’s the UK was selling the Americans the harrier while buying some remaining F-4Ks.

You get what meets your requirements

 

[jupiter2007]

What an irony we are marketing JF17 thunder to Egyptians to replace Mirages and we are buying those Mirages as our JF17 cant fulfill that role according to posters

We have to keep at least 2 squadrons of Mirage until 2030 so we need Egyptian mirage for spare parts.

 

[The Maverick]

Strike aircraft need excellent jammers and ew suites and highly advanced navigation and attack radars in order to penetrate increasingly sophisticated air defences.

If you intend to soldier on for decade and this is your primary strike platform then it will need to survive
Tiered s400 and Barak 8 and Akash defence. Then avoid detetection by 5 different bvr platforms from.rafale mki mig29upg tejas and mirage2000.

That's why Egypt which deploys same fighters as India ie Rafale mirage and mig29 scrapped the mirage 5 . It's limitations are to great to influence a modern full.scale war

 

[Shah_Deu]

What an irony we are marketing JF17 thunder to Egyptians to replace Mirages and we are buying those Mirages as our JF17 cant fulfill that role according to posters

This is no irony here. You just cant replace an ol' Hilux pickup with a new Corolla. Both serve their own purposes. One country might be exporting one of them but still importing the other, there stand no contradictions.

US and Europe for instance though producing Boeings and Airbuses respectively still import the Embraers and Bombardiers from Brazil and Canada when they have no similar product in their own portfolio. It doesnt signal any irony on their part.

JF-17 and Mirages stand to serve two different purposes. JF-17 cant do Mirages' job as good and vice versa.

Egypt if it ever decides to buy the JF-17 wouldnt do it to replace its mirages, it would rather do it to fill the gap of a light multirole fighter to build up numbers quickly and cost effectively.

 

[Armchair]

JF-17 cannot replace the Mirage. Mirage 3/5 have a unique space in Pakistan that can only be replaced by an equivalent deep strike fighter, which will sooner or later be acquired. JF17, in its blocks, replaces the A5 (complete), F6(complete), F7P (complete), F7PG (underway) and then F16 Peace Eagle Blk 15. Other aircraft shall be acquired meanwhile to replace the mighty Mirage. However, you are correct to assume that in some roles and tasks, such as AD and AS, JF17 being a truly multi-role bird, is doing roles where Mirage was originally serving.

Welcome back - haven't seen you in a while. Hope all is well. I don't know what exactly the mirage can do which the JF-17 can't - I'm assuming low level strike - very low level, where the clean delta shines with its stability and ability to carry heavy munitions.

I personally also feel a new aircraft is needed to replace the Mirages, as the enemy has improved their defenses and this requires an equivalent better response. Perhaps a low cost program like the F-117 that took the parts bin of multiple aircraft such as the F-16 and created a new aircraft out of it, that met the challenge of improved Soviet air defenses admirably.

Would love to see your input on the new mini-submarine project (SWAT), the major upgradation of the surface fleet and the supposed boomers coming. And according to some, the J-15.