What's new

The PAF is set to receive a batch of Egyptian Air Force Mirage-Vs

Once they say they dont have budget than they buy this junk

If paf even buy 5 SU 35 far better than these

Look how stupud our thinking is egypt who dont have big threat than us sell them and buy SU 35 and we keep miss using funds on junk

Its proven fact we have money but not a willto get best

Quaide azam said pak must build its airforce second to none

But PAF doing oppsite buying second class jets willingly

Why d
This induction is for spare parts mainly from my understanding of the tweet.
Ontphase them out they dont offer much
 
. .
If Pakistan can overhaul Mirage aircraft, make modifications that affect aerodynamics like refueling probe, integrate newer electronics for ROSE, build JF-17 air frames, why can't it do something similar to IAI Kfir?

Pakistan can build new air frame, maybe add canards. For engines, it will need to outsource to another supplier or build locally on license. IAI Kfir was based on the Dassault Mirage aircraft.
 
.
i disagree they are falling from sky like rocks . just check sir lately they have too many crashed .
Can you tell me how many have crashed and when ... say for the last 3-5 years?

I hope some of these also serve as attrition replacements, especially the dual-seat variants
 
Last edited:
.
How many of J-10 jet is Pakistan signed with China?
When and why not get J-10 than old Mirage-V
 
.
Until , unless Replacement for Mirages available ( most probably delta with same mission requirements) we will going to see more of such inductions for spear parts ……..
Some how we have to keep our current Jets (airworthy) ...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
Obsolete junks, just because PAF can upgrade them, to next level still thy wana hve these junks, which will just waste more money on overhauling and upgrading these old brids to ker them in skies?
It's far more better we could hve gone for a few gripens, SU35s or evn latest versions of J10s, Tht would hve us new airframes and latest tech in the air rather having these junks, evn having a few mirrages 2000 won't be a bad idea in longer run ?
 
.
Apart from f16 the only other option is typhoon from Italy used or new ..

From western equipments Italy is a relaible patner, we also have south african and turkish suppliers but rest are drying up as India pushes hard..

mirage2000 is not an option given french behavior and lack of spares..

Unlike mirage5 mirage2000 users will be limited to france and any spares we will be dependent upon them


Rebuild using old frames..we already have jf17..why build another plan?

Remeber the wings lose life sooner than fuselages ..we simply replace older worn out parts with less worn out parts from another airframe

Rebuilding Mirage V was a joke.

Most of the Egyptian Mirage V still have life left in them so we might see them flying in Pakistan. These might replace older mirage or F-7s.

As far as mirage 2000 are concerned, it all depends on how hard someone pushing the panic button in PAF. Never say no until the French pigs start flying.

JF-17 might be best replacement for older planes but it’s a light weight fighter and may not be the best option to counter Medium weight and heavyweights fighters. To counter those, we need true 4.5 generation medium weight fighter plane or 5th generation fighter.
Block 3 needs more composite materials to reduce weight and more powerful engine.
 
.
Another thread where the self righteous Pakistanis are crying about what the armed forces do as if they know better than generals with 40 years of experience. You lot are sitting behind keyboards on a Defence Forum. You do not know the needs, wants and requirements of our armed forces. We can’t replace the Mirages overnight. They are not obsolete. Especially with the ROSE upgrades they have. That’s why the F7s, which are crash prone, are being replaced first, until then we need to keep the Mirages flying. These air craft are being ordered for spare parts since they aren’t produced by Dassault anymore. Can you people please think just a little bit before becoming Defence experts?

A few points to prove this deals need;
1. We get to keep our Mirages flying that have A much better safety and Victory record (27th February being the latest example) Than the F7s which need urgent replacement.
2. We probably got them for a price good enough for the deal to be worth it. Again, the military knows better. Not teenagers on a Defence forum.
3. Some people mentioned how “5 SU 35s” or “J-10s” or “‘Mirage 2000s” or “a few gripens” are a better deal. Can you please read your own posts and see the flaws in it? First compare the price difference of the jets themselves. Then compare how much time and money will be needed to set up a complex to maintain these, buy weapons for them, train pilots for them. Until then we would be at a loss of flying jets. And what the hell are we gonna do with 5 of a type of jet? Make a independent wing? Tf?.

Please Pakistanis. Think before you post.
 
.
Once they say they dont have budget than they buy this junk

If paf even buy 5 SU 35 far better than these

Look how stupud our thinking is egypt who dont have big threat than us sell them and buy SU 35 and we keep miss using funds on junk

Its proven fact we have money but not a willto get best

Quaide azam said pak must build its airforce second to none

But PAF doing oppsite buying second class jets willingly

Why d

Ontphase them out they dont offer much
I don't think it's rocket science to understand the current state of affairs of Pakistan. Firstm we need to cool down our head. Then get the fact right that we cannot buy new planes (least of all SU-35) financially and logically in even small numbers (even though the number of planes in PAF needing a replacement is in hundreds). If we want to continue with JF-17 and Azm projects as committed as before, we'll have to keep Mirages operational for at least another five years. Of course we'll then need spares for that and what is a better option to meet the requirement other than buying old mirages?

Obsolete junks, just because PAF can upgrade them, to next level still thy wana hve these junks, which will just waste more money on overhauling and upgrading these old brids to ker them in skies?
It's far more better we could hve gone for a few gripens, SU35s or evn latest versions of J10s, Tht would hve us new airframes and latest tech in the air rather having these junks, evn having a few mirrages 2000 won't be a bad idea in longer run ?
Obsolete junks? Even after what these mirages did on 27/2? These planes defeated and breached much hyped India's layered air defence equipped with presumably top class Israeli, Russian, and French technology. These planes delivered the munition at its targets with such an accuracy. BTW, how do you define the word 'obsolete'? Know its meanings?
 
.
Two major strike squadrons of PAF fly Mirage-V aircrafts. PAF uses Mirage III in in Air combat role and Mirage-V in strike role. There are two main issues, procurement and then upgrades. lets look at the three types of aircrafts that PAF wants to keep flying earnestly; JF-17, F-16, Mirage III/V.

JF-17 is being procured and upgraded by PAF. Whenever F-16 is procured, its upgraded by TAI and quality checked by LM USA, as seen in recent past. The Mirages have been extensively upgraded, the money has been invested already. There is obviously the ROSE upgrade, but the rest of the fleet has been upgraded to a certain extent too. Replacing Mirages still requires alot of investment, in the form of a new aircraft, which after procurement will again go through upgrades to reach parity and commonality with JF-17 at least or F-16 if its a western aircraft. The Mirage V which took part in LOC strike were non-ROSE but definitely upgraded.

During an analysis with another member here on PDF (cant remember now who he was). we observed that PAF Mirages squadrons are mixed, which means they fly both Mirage III and Mirage V in same squadron. Mirage III provides AD/escort and Mirage V is used for strike. Basically self sufficient squadron. However, the strike showed something different. JF-17 on escort, Mirage-V on strike, and now since PAF is getting Mirage-V's, this could mean that Mirage III would be the next to go after F-7P/PG's. The importance of Mirage III still holds since Ra'ad ALCM was tested on it. Operationally, PAF has shown that JF-17 and Mirage-V's are set to be paired together in an event of war.

Mirage V differentiates from Mirage III in terms of two more hard points, better rate of climb and a longer nose. Its also said to carry more fuel and more ordnance than Mirage III. The versatility of Mirage V can be seen by the fact that it holds two major dedicated roles in PAF: night time strike and Naval support. These roles are shared with JF-17 and F-16 now.

Coming back to procurement and up-gradation. The plus points in this acquisition is saving cost in terms of:
1. Weaponry: PAF wouldn't need to acquire and integrate new weapons.
2. Infrastructure, training, pilot hours, simulations etc.
3. Upgrading EAF's Mirages V's to ROSE standard is not required since, these can be used as spares for ROSE or other upgraded versions. Basically, if these aircrafts can help ROSE squadrons fly for another 20 years through cannibalism for spares, then this acquisition is worth it.

If they are deemed proficient in terms of lesser flying hours, then yes induction and possibly upgrades are possible. This would still depend, these can be used to replace other aircrafts or can also be used to increase inventory. In the former, replacing systems from old frames into new frames would be done, while in latter, induction will take place with better avionics and systems. Its up to PAF to decide the path, it wants to take.

Regarding Mirage 2000, PAF will see feasibility from all pov's. Cost of induction, infrastructure, upgrades, weaponry, training, simulators and finally frame life. F-16 still has production line running, it has a major MLU plan in process, not just M-3 or M-5 but also V-standard now. JF-17 has newer blocks coming in, probably upto Block IV. So cost wise., Mirage 2000 will always be costlier. Comparing capability, yes Mirage 2000 is much more capable than Mirage V. So Mirage 2000 justifies its cost vis a vis Mirage V, but compared to F-16 or JF-17, their capability comes at a lower cost than Mirage-2000. The Ra'ad issue still exists; which can be solved through a different platform or redesigning the ALCM itself.
Good analysis done @Signalian

Thanks alot :D
Professional @Tps43 hmmmm taraqi......
 
.
Obsolete junks, just because PAF can upgrade them, to next level still thy wana hve these junks, which will just waste more money on overhauling and upgrading these old brids to ker them in skies?
It's far more better we could hve gone for a few gripens, SU35s or evn latest versions of J10s, Tht would hve us new airframes and latest tech in the air rather having these junks, evn having a few mirrages 2000 won't be a bad idea in longer run ?

This is what we achieved despite limited resources. Tender closed & speaks the worth of this purchase. We shouldn't see this purchase as some Platform Addition rather is served in many ways from Spare to possible few operational birds adding more punch to existing fleet.

upload_2019-4-18_20-43-14.png


France is not producing spares & we don't have the luxury for such wish-list shopping. It is a reality and concerns do know as how to play well till next opportunity. New Platform means a lot of more expenses beside Fighter's cost. How could we forget infrastructure, after sale support, spares, training, weapons, induction, a whole new setup to maintain a whole new kind of platform.... it continues then but we have more of priorities to work on & JF-17 Block-III is currently on top along with maintaining existing fleet of different jets. Money matters hence, plausible approach.
 
. . . .

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom