The origins of tribes across Pakistan and Hindustan

[Joe Shearer]

basically 23 and me is garbage... because even pushtuns are considered south asians by them... tamils are considered same as punjabis... but that .03

Pakhtuns are south Asian? That's weird.

And Tamils the same as Punjabi?

Are you sure about this? Sounds nonsensical.

Don't want to egg you on to wasteful expenditure, but those results create a contradiction between the historical view and the genetic that might not exist. This might be a very inaccurate place.

DNA tests are pretty inaccurate, they found that out after they tested it on twins and most of them had very different results.

Don't know what to say.

Especially "23 and me", it was very erroneous for them to group "South Asian" as a single unit.

That's disappointing.

I'm a Gujjar as well.

Gujjars are not of Iranian or Turkish descent. It is agreed that they did however most likely originate from Central Asia as Indo-Scythians, White Huns or Khazars and share their origins with Jatts and possibly Rajputs as well.

I commented on this a little way down the road; at that time, I hadn't read your post. What you have said is more or less the majority view among historians. Please remember that whoever (@dsr478?) mentioned Iranian was not too far from the mark, because the Scythians are thought to have spoken a version of Iranian known as eastern Iranian.

White Huns and Khazars are themselves a very problematic category.

North Indian Brahmins cannot be compared with Rajputs, Pashtuns, Baloch or Kurds.

The closest Indian ethnic group to Pakistani or Iranic ethnic groups are the Kashmiri Pandits who are surprisingly close to Pakistani Sindhis in genetics but still farther compared with Sindhis from groups such as Kurds, Baloch or Pashtuns.

Is the word "caste" synonymous to the word "tribe"?

LOL.

No, and yes. I don't want to answer on thread, and take us all down the caste road. Maybe separately on your personal profile page, or on mine.

Who care about Indian? They cannot digest this fact that Rajputs were converted into Islam
They have their own complexes but it dont matter to me

But i guess its Indian historian who wrote this

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-history-of-Janjua-Rajputs

If we ignore the first three paragraphs, that was a very fine note. Not strictly academic (not much citation but then this is Quora).

Thanks for pointing it out.

Funny thing is Janjuas are considered purest Rajputs of Punjab. Indians are always jealous.

Why on earth should Indians be jealous? What do I, for instance, have to do with Rajputs? Other than ethnographic curiousity?

Indians are most confuse people . They have problem with everything
They will moan if someone will claim arab/Persian origin
and they will also moan when someone claim to be native
Their enmity with Islam and Pakistan dont let them embrace the truth but well we should not care about Indians . they are not important lol

<sigh!>

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Why on earth should Indians be jealous? What do I, for instance, have to do with Rajputs? Other than ethnographic curiousity?

I sent you that email. I think you'll find the answer to this very question on there.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I just assumed that the nomadic or pastoral gujjars would not be as mixed due to a more isolated environment as compared to the ones in the south.

That makes sense. Thanks.

I sent you that email. I think you'll find the answer to this very question on there.

I am really sorry that you felt it necessary. Bash on; I have your back.

 

[Brahmarshi]

That makes sense. Thanks.



I am really sorry that you felt it necessary. Bash on; I have your back.

Real Hindu and Sikh Jannuas in India clain Jat origin and sing songs to glorify their jat
ancestry. I have one female Hindu Janjua Friend, and even she's a Jatni.

Stangly, only Muslim Janjuas claim tobe "Rajput"s.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

I met two sets of Gujjars, one being the settled pastoralists, the other Van Gujjars - fascinating people, wandering nomads (shepherds) even today. I have some pictures of their settlements which I will try to upload. Utterly romantic, but callously neglected.

I am not sure why there would be different results with Punjab and northern India (that's mainly Haryana, which was always part of Punjab, and Rajasthan, and some parts of MP and UP). Why do you think that?

Look up the Gujjars of Kashmir and compare them with Gujjars of Rajasthan. They are culturally, physically and even to an extent, linguistically different and it's easy to tell them apart.

Gujjars of Kashmir and the Indus region (mostly Northern Punjab) were more isolated and maintained more of their 'original bloodline' while Gujjars of East Punjab, Rajasthan and other parts greatly intermingled with the locals and there have been historical cases of many 'local tribes' being assimilated into them. Although Western Gujjars (of Kashmir, Indus region) also inter-mingled, it was mostly with their kinsmen tribes such as the Jats, who make up the second largest tribe/ethnic group in Pakistan today.

The divide is so great that Gujjars of Pakistan and Kashmir look like typical Pakistanis and have more in common with Pakistanis, while Gujjars of Rajasthan and other (Indian) areas typically look like Indians and have more in common with other Indians than their 'brethren' to the North.

@Kaptaan - might be interesting for you

Gujjars of Kashmir/Indus region

Gujjars of Rajasthan

 

[Hamza913]

Look up the Gujjars of Kashmir and compare them with Gujjars of Rajasthan. They are culturally, physically and even to an extent, linguistically different and it's easy to tell them apart.

Gujjars of Kashmir and the Indus region (mostly Northern Punjab) were more isolated and maintained more of their 'original bloodline' while Gujjars of East Punjab, Rajasthan and other parts greatly intermingled with the locals and there have been historical cases of many 'local tribes' being assimilated into them. Although Western Gujjars (of Kashmir, Indus region) also inter-mingled, it was mostly with their kinsmen tribes such as the Jats, who make up the second largest tribe/ethnic group in Pakistan today.

The divide is so great that Gujjars of Pakistan and Kashmir look like typical Pakistanis and have more in common with Pakistanis, while Gujjars of Rajasthan and other (Indian) areas typically look like Indians and have more in common with other Indians than their 'brethren' to the North.

@Kaptaan - might be interesting for you

Gujjars of Kashmir/Indus region

Gujjars of Rajasthan

Muslim Gujjars do (apparently) have some genetic differences to their Hindu and Sikh counterparts.

 

[Brahmarshi]

Look up the Gujjars of Kashmir and compare them with Gujjars of Rajasthan. They are culturally, physically and even to an extent, linguistically different and it's easy to tell them apart.

Gujjars of Kashmir and the Indus region (mostly Northern Punjab) were more isolated and maintained more of their 'original bloodline' while Gujjars of East Punjab, Rajasthan and other parts greatly intermingled with the locals and there have been historical cases of many 'local tribes' being assimilated into them. Although Western Gujjars (of Kashmir, Indus region) also inter-mingled, it was mostly with their kinsmen tribes such as the Jats, who make up the second largest tribe/ethnic group in Pakistan today.

The divide is so great that Gujjars of Pakistan and Kashmir look like typical Pakistanis and have more in common with Pakistanis, while Gujjars of Rajasthan and other (Indian) areas typically look like Indians and have more in common with other Indians than their 'brethren' to the North.

@Kaptaan - might be interesting for you

Gujjars of Kashmir/Indus region

Gujjars of Rajasthan

Gujjars of kashmir looks completely different from Punbaji/pakistani and Haryanvi, UP, Rajasthani Gujjar by facial features alone they look closer to Afghan Gujjars.

Kashmiri Gujjar tribes consider Southern Tribes as Kaamis/Drividians and look up to Afghan Gujjars and pashtuns, as majority of Mislik Koshur do.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Gujjars of kashmir looks completely different from Punbaji/pakistani and Haryanvi, UP, Rajasthani Gujjar by facial features alone they look closer to Afghan Gujjars.

Kashmiri Gujjar tribes consider Southern Tribes as Kaamis/Drividians and look up to Afghan Gujjars and pashtuns, as majority of Mislik Koshur do.

It's too bad Kashmiri Pandits look like dog shit. Oh well. Thanks for the information that you made up, you should go and change some pages on wikipedia to make yourself happy.

 

[James-bond]

Stupid thread

but my issue here is there is no country called as 'HINDUSTAN' either India or Bharat.Hope mods change the title.. It sounds me like

The origins of tribes across Indo-muslimistan and India

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Gujjars of kashmir looks completely different from Punbaji/pakistani and Haryanvi, UP, Rajasthani Gujjar by facial features alone they look closer to Afghan Gujjars.

Kashmiri Gujjar tribes consider Southern Tribes as Kaamis/Drividians and look up to Afghan Gujjars and pashtuns, as majority of Mislik Koshur do.

I'm a Gujjar with origins from Jammu, there are hundreds of thousands of Kashmiri Gujjars living in Northern Punjab who have their origins from Jammu. We look like our Jatt kinsmen and pretty much like any other major Pakistani ethnic group.

Also, no way in hell do Rajasthan Gujjars look any close to Afghan Gujjars, they can't even match Kashmiri Gujjars. Kashmiri Gujjars don't look up to Afghan Gujjars or Pashtuns; 95% of them don't even know that Afghan Gujjars exist. We are our own people and are fiercely proud/independent and look up to no one but neither do we look down upon others.

If you don't know what you're talking about, then please don't, keep your unfactual 'knowledge' to yourself.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

I'm a Gujjar with origins from Jammu, there are hundreds of thousands of Kashmiri Gujjars living in Northern Punjab who have their origins from Jammu. We look like our Jatt kinsmen and pretty much like any other major Pakistani ethnic group.

Also, no way in hell do Rajasthan Gujjars look any close to Afghan Gujjars, they can't even match Kashmiri Gujjars. Kashmiri Gujjars don't look up to Afghan Gujjars or Pashtuns; 95% of them don't even know that Afghan Gujjars exist. We are our own people and are fiercely proud/independent and look up to no one but neither do we look down upon others.

If you don't know what you're talking about, then please don't.

Why are you trying to respond to the Indian troll in a serious manner?

Akhir me badsurat bharti he. Complexes aur internet par waqt zyada he.

 

[Brahmarshi]

I'm a Gujjar with origins from Jammu, there are hundreds of thousands of Kashmiri Gujjars living in Northern Punjab who have their origins from Jammu. We look like our Jatt kinsmen and pretty much like any other major Pakistani ethnic group.

Also, no way in hell do Rajasthan Gujjars look any close to Afghan Gujjars, they can't even match Kashmiri Gujjars. Kashmiri Gujjars don't look up to Afghan Gujjars or Pashtuns; 95% of them don't even know that Afghan Gujjars exist. We are our own people and are fiercely proud/independent and look up to no one but neither do we look down upon others.

If you don't know what you're talking about, then please don't, keep your unfactual 'knowledge' to yourself.

Read my post again than reply.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Read my post again than reply.

Yes and I gave you my reply.

You claimed that Kashmiri Gujjars do not look like Pakistanis or Punjabis, which I refuted.

You claimed that Haryanvi, UP and Rajasthani Gujjars look like Afghan Gujjars, which I refuted.

You claimed that Kashmiri Gujjars look up to Afghan Gujjars and Pashtuns, which I refuted.

You clearly do not know an iota of what you're talking about, so, as I've said, please do not talk of things you know little of.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Yeah basically, you don't know what the **** you're talking about. All praise to google my little slum dog living fraand.

No need to use bad language.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

No need to use bad language.

There may not be a need. What else do you have to say?