The number zero was invented in Ancient Pakistan

[UnitedPak]

Aren't you convinced now that nobody has an answer to give.

I already answered his question here:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...invented-ancient-pakistan-17.html#post1290636

Pakistanis claim all of their history. The names of a few missiles by the army does not prove that we are Turkic. Did you even bother to read anything before you posted?

How can you do that??? pakistan was created after partition of Bharat not Bharat created after partition of pakistan!!! Modern state of India is the same history of the India of that of thousand years.

Learn the history! Some of the greatest sites of Indus valley civilization are in India and the IVC is Indian as well. If Russia, China or Japan are partitioned tomorrow doesn't mean their history of thousand of years is changed and became specific to some regions.

India was also created after partition in 1947. This is a real fact. There is no India of a thousand years ago. India didnt exist before the British rule. I really cant understand these silly arguments where India is as old as the oldest relic found on the subcontinent. You seem to think the Indian subcontinent is your nation. Indians can only claim the history of their people. This does not include the Indus Valley and I think most Indians realise this, hence all the mass migration theories and vague IVC towns in India etc.

Ever heard of the Soviet Union? Do Russians claim ancestors of Tajikistan as their ancestors now?

Ancient Pakistani ???
very weird identity though
it sounds like at the partition era Hindus wer leaving their lands and homes in pakistan and later pakistani Muslims"turks" occupies those Hindu's Lands and homes and now they are claiming tht they are a descendents of the hindus who left pakistan just becos those hindus happen to be the inventors/great thinkers who lived once in pakistani region/home

Welcome to the forum. I can only assume you didnt bother to read anything in this thread.
Ancient Pakistan is a geographic region also known as Indus Valley (land of the Indus river). It is not a political concept.
So now Pakistanis are Turkic, and only the Hindus who left during the partition were the natives? I believe this is a brand new line of thought. Not bad, I will add it to the list of contradicting claims by our Indian members.

 

[WAR-rior]

Pakistani trolls still cannot answer the question that I asked them, so they just troll more. Regardless, I will ask it again:

u see its diversionary tactics ! pakistanis direly want to create a mark on international stage. so much attempt and built up theories.....

but facts are facts and the world is sane enough to comprehend. i wonder if pakistanis wud have cared to associate themselves with IVC as it wasnt associated with islam which is actually the basis of their existence (as the name mean PAK-sthan - ie. LAND OF PURE (muslims)) if it wasnt discovered as the most ancient developed civilisation.

CMON guyz..get lyf.

either respect ur so claimed history by naming stuff around them.....or just be genuine to accept that no unislamic thing has any association with u.....

IVC was ancient version of Hinduism.....(as we know hinduism is a form of pagan religion which has taken many forms with evolution. current version of hinduism is preached by krishna in geeta)...... 5000 yrs back IVC guyz used cow as currency. cow was so important that they used it for farming, milk, sacrifice(meat), etc...... but it doesnt mean that it wasnt hinduism as idol worship was even then a part of IVC religion(archeologists found SHIV LINGUMS in harrapa and mohenjodaro proving they were lord shiva worshipers)......

NOTE :- the above post is completely of my education during MBA in sociology class and havent been reffered to any link.....Any pakistani friend want to counter these claims, is most welcome. Thanks.

 

[Developereo]

Aren't you convinced now that nobody has an answer to give.

It's a silly question.

By that logic, American missiles shouldn't be named after Greek gods like Poseidon.

 

[WAR-rior]

It's a silly question.

By that logic, American missiles shouldn't be named after Greek gods like Poseidon.

exactly the point. america is christian country who have their links to europe. unlike pakistan americans dont disregard their pre christianity religion, neither roman nor greek.

but same doesnt stand for pakistan as their whole existence is against the concept of paganism or hinduism.

theres no comparision.....

u can compare the same in case of hinduism,buddhism and jainism as they are completely different religion but still associated to each other a lot...... indians wont mind naming things associated to buddhism and jainism.....

the matter of fact remains, pakistanis want to associate a pagan culture to their existing culture and religion which is 180 degree oriented. thats what the point lies.

Thanks.

 

[Developereo]

pakistan as their whole existence is against the concept of paganism or hinduism.

Please don't make silly generalizations.
It's no way to advance your argument.

 

[WAR-rior]

Please don't make silly generalizations.
It's no way to advance your argument.

CMON yaar, be realistic.....we all know pakistan was a country for mulims as u guyz cant do with india in 1947. ur whole existence is claiming as a fortress of islam. NOW DONT DENY THIS.

islam and hinduism is completely opposite (hope u dont disregard ur qaid e azam.....its his own words)....

so wheres the generalization SILLY.....i just requoted what helped jinnah sir to get pakistan......isnt it?

 

[KS]

It is surprising considering the stated objective for the establishment of Pakistan is as a homeland of all sub-continental Muslims and not a region specific or ethinic based entity can now claim the heritage of all the things that took place in ancient Hindu areas of "today's" Pakistan.

Many of those who were the original sons of the soil of ancient areas that now come under Pakistan are in India and the true heritage only belongs to them.

Similarly many who were from ancient times living in today's India are in Pakistan and they too have a share of the heritage on things like Lal Qila,Tah Mahal etc.

 

[WAR-rior]

It is surprising considering the stated objective for the establishment of Pakistan is as a homeland of all sub-continental Muslims and not a region specific or ethinic based entity can now claim the heritage of all the things that took place in ancient Hindu areas of "today's" Pakistan.

Many of those who were the original sons of the soil of ancient areas that now come under Pakistan are in India and the true heritage only belongs to them.

Similarly many who were from ancient times living in today's India are in Pakistan and they too have a share of the heritage on things like Lal Qila,Tah Mahal etc.

+1

exactly....all the hindu sindhis, gujratis and punjabis have their right on IVC and similarly, all pakistanis who migrated to pakistan have their right on mughal and tughlaqi civilizations......

but not the other way round.....

Hope this logic is acceptable to pakistani bros.

 

[Developereo]

Pakistan was established as a safe haven for Muslims for fear that they would be second-class citizens in India.

This has no impact on the status of non-Muslims. Jinnah's vision, echoed in the white strip on the Pakistani flag, entitles them to first-class citizenship within Pakistan, alongside Muslims.

I agree that misguided interpretations of Islam have deviated Pakistan from its promise, but that's another story. Many Pakistanis embrace our non-Muslim heritage and diversity.

 

[Rig Vedic]

A few points:

- The words India, Hindu, etc. all derive from the word Indus. Strictly speaking, Pakistan has more right to the word India, and India should be called Bharat.

It is true that the correct name for India is Bharat. But it should be noted that when the ancient Greeks used the word India, they meant the entire Indian subcontinent, with capital at Patna.

- The fact that Hinduism borrowed from, and refers to, ancient IVC culture is neither here nor there.

In fact, the Dharmic / Sanskritic civilization originated in the Gangetic valley, and expanded westward towards Indus and northwards to Afghanistan. See http://koenraadelst.blogspot.com/2009/01/great-book-about-great-book.html

Modern Pakistanis have as much right to that heritage as modern, Christian Greeks do to ancient Greece, or modern Egyptians to Pharoanic Egypt.

I don't know what you mean by "having right to". The founder of Pakistan was very clear that the pre-Islamic civilization was different from and in conflict with his own "civilization".

 

[Rig Vedic]

Linguistics of the Indian subcontinent - some elementary facts:

The direct descendants of Sanskrit are the Prakrit languages. These include Sindhi, Punjabi, Nepali, Assamese, Bengali, Odiya, Marathi, Gujarati, Marwadi, Khadi Boli, Maithili, Braj Bhasha, Bhojpuri etc.

Modern Hindi is essentially the same as Khadi Boli, which was the variant of Prakrit spoken in the Delhi and western UP area. Urdu is what you get when you insert Persian and Arabic loan-words into Khadi Boli.

Pashto, Kashmiri, Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam and Tamil are not Prakrit languages. However they may have a large number of Sanskrit loan words. For example, Malayalam is about 80% Sanskrit.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Pakistanis and indians have equal right on IVC but the thing is pakistanis are not proud of their hindu ancestors or freedom fighters like bhagathsingh,bose,rajguru, sukhdev, etc...
or they are not sympathetic towards ancient kings who fought the muslim invaders they are happy supporting them because they were muslims..
i believe it's the religion you people accepted not the muslim kings who attacked you(us). i may be wrong feel free to correct me.

 

[KS]

I agree that misguided interpretations of Islam have deviated Pakistan from its promise, but that's another story. Many Pakistanis embrace our non-Muslim heritage and diversity.

How can migrated Biharis or others who came from other places of the Indian sub-continent like Deccan to make up today's Pakistan claim the heritage of those who had been there for centuries ?

This is what you guys want to do as suggested from this thread.

And why should not the migrated Sindhis,Punjabis from Sindh,KP,Punjab to modern day India claim what is rightfully theirs ??

 

[Kambojaric]

Pakistan was established as a safe haven for Muslims for fear that they would be second-class citizens in India.

This has no impact on the status of non-Muslims. Jinnah's vision, echoed in the white strip on the Pakistani flag, entitles them to first-class citizenship within Pakistan, alongside Muslims.

I agree that misguided interpretations of Islam have deviated Pakistan from its promise, but that's another story. Many Pakistanis embrace our non-Muslim heritage and diversity.

I second this. Tired of Indians wild generalization that Pakistanis have no respect for the Pre-Muslim Pakistan. As said Pakistan was created as a safe haven for those muslims who feared persecution on the basis of their religion. Thats why Jinnah even at one point was going to go with an Indian Federation where muslim rights were guaranteed in the North West. You should see how proud Pakistani Rajputs, Jatts, Arain are on being Rajput, Jatt and Arain. And yes these people know that their ancestors were Hindus. People claiming outside ancestry is very small. Dont form your opinion of Pakistanis based on an internet forum.

 

[UnitedPak]

How can migrated Biharis or others who came from other places of the Indian sub-continent like Deccan to make up today's Pakistan claim the heritage of those who had been there for centuries ?

This is what you guys want to do as suggested from this thread.

And why should not the migrated Sindhis,Punjabis from Sindh,KP,Punjab to modern day India claim what is rightfully theirs ??

Why dont you read up on what we are saying instead of making false assumptions? Around 95% of modern Pakistanis are native and they are the natives of Indus Valley. Partition history is another shared chapter in the subcontinent and nobody is denying this. Indian Sindhis and Punjabis from the Indus region have every right to claim Indus Valley origin and history. But the remaining 97% of Indians have nothing to do with the Indus region.

We are not using modern borders to define Indus Valley, but the provinces and people who have always lived off the Indus rivers. Ancient Pakistan is just another word for this region because it is based on this region and its people.

Pakistanis and indians have equal right on IVC but the thing is pakistanis are not proud of their hindu ancestors or freedom fighters like bhagathsingh,bose,rajguru, sukhdev, etc...
or they are not sympathetic towards ancient kings who fought the muslim invaders they are happy supporting them because they were muslims..
i believe it's the religion you people accepted not the muslim kings who attacked you(us). i may be wrong feel free to correct me.

What do you think this thread is about?

Please stop bringing Islam into this. We respect our minorities and our pre-Islamic history. I am tired of the ideology argument. It doesnt change the origins of people even if true. The matter is political and doesnt belong in this debate.