The Nuclear Battlefield - India vs Pakistan

[FreekiN]

Dude this report was deliberately issued by US to please Pakistan and try to remove the Indian fear from Pakistani mind at a very crucial and urgent time, Another plight game of which Pakistan become tangled. I hope some day US stop playing with Pakistan.

Sounds like an inconvenient reaction to an inconvenient truth.

If you did some research you would have found this publication was not made for Pakistan and was not made by a single source. The Federation of American Scientists and the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists have most notably confirmed the accuracy of the estimates of these representations. These two organizations are not government controlled and are actually private.

 

[Condor]

To Cheers Doc: Where u gone now Doc, after conquering Pakistan?

You have to stabilize the country after your conquest.

Busy I s'ppose, giving it to them patients - suppositories I mean.

 

[Spitfighter]

Cool rational thinking but not there yet - I wouldn't say brilliant. If this is how your Army command also thinks, you are not going to get far. May even get a good drubbing.
Leaning on your nuclear umbrella every so often is also not a healthy sign.
You should be thinking of cauldron battles on an entirely different spectrum. I do not know if I should even spill it all out here.

Please do, I'd like to get your opinion on the feasibility of India's strategic objectives (wrt a war with Pakistan of course).

PS: go easy on the military jargon.

 

[Kompromat]

Dude

First of all i am not your dude .

this report was deliberately issued by US to please Pakistan

Oh really , so you run an Intelligence Firm do you?

and try to remove the Indian fear from Pakistani mind at a very crucial and urgent time

Indian fear ?? what is that?
Oh i remember you are talking about this one...

Another plight game of which Pakistan become tangled. I hope some day US stop playing with Pakistan.

You worry about India , we don't need your expertise .

 

[Condor]

Hi Spitfire,
How u doin?
Whats it like in States down there?
We are literally freezing up here in Europa.

"War is too serious a business to be left alone to the Generals" - they say and so do I.

 

[Condor]

Please do, I'd like to get your opinion on the feasibility of India's strategic objectives (wrt a war with Pakistan of course).

PS: go easy on the military jargon.

Spitfire: To answer your Question peripherally, lest it exacerbate your opponents already disadvantaged position, let me tell you that I can make an accurate guess of what exactly is going on in the minds of your upper echelon politico-military. And of course they are right to think thus.

The paper presented here on this debate is outdated - much has changed since then. Naturally the thinking also will evolve concurrent to the changes.

With regard to a war with Pakistan only time can tell - crunch time, that is. It would be foolish of anybody to assume that Pakistan wud not have remained current itself on the ever changing scenario.

Strategic objectives by themselves should not be cardinal but flexible and should be malleable tools in the hands of decision makers.

Cheerio

 

[Condor]

xxxxxxDeletedxxxxxxxx

 

[Kompromat]

Spitfire: To answer your Question peripherally, lest it exacerbate your opponents already disadvantaged position, let me tell you that I can make an accurate guess of what exactly is going on in the minds of your upper echelon politico-military. And of course they are right to think thus.

The paper presented here on this debate is outdated - much has changed since then. Naturally the thinking also will evolve concurrent to the changes.

With regard to a war with Pakistan only time can tell - crunch time, that is. It would be foolish of anybody to assume that Pakistan wud not have remained current itself on the ever changing scenario.

Strategic objectives by themselves should not be cardinal but flexible and should be malleable tools in the hands of decision makers.

Cheerio

Read it:


http://www.adl.gatech.edu/research/brmsrr/2009/SRRP04010901.pdf

 

[vsdoc]

Guys just take a chill pill.

Have an intellectual debate and not blind nationalism.

I will start:

Basically, Pakistan has 10 Corps along with Strategic Corps for Nuclear Weapons.

Its Main Strike Corp also known as Army Reserve North is composed of I Corp and II Corp. In an event of War Indian plan is to tie them them down in a battle of attrition since a war of maneuver in Punjab seems very unlikely.

In Kashmir, Pakistan has X Corp, which will be reinforced by XI and XII Corps from the West along with Northern Area Corps. They will be entrenched in a defensive formation along the LOC.

Pakistan's 2nd Main Strike Corps is known as Army Reserve South and is composed of IV, XXX and XXXI Corps. The V Corp will function as a strategic reserve. It is here around Southern Punjab/Northern Sindh where India can wage a war of maneuver that it will attack with their two main strike corps and will simply overwhelm the Pakistani Corps.

This is Pakistan's Army biggest weakness.

And the article is exactly right, in 3-4 weeks, the Pakistani Army will crumble under the immense weight of an Indian Offensive.

What Pakistan needs to do is this, IMO:

1 - Create a General Reserve Army of 2 Corps (2 Mechanized and 4 Infantry Divisions and 8 Independent Brigades). Around 120,000 men, 750-1,000 Tanks and supporting artillery, mortar, anti-aircraft and anti-tank brigades. This Army would only be activated in a time of war with India. Its aim would be to plug the hole should front-line troops of Army Reserve South crumble under the Indian onslaught.

2 - Add another Corp to the Sindh Command and move the Sindh Command from a Reserve Army to frontline troops. In a time of war, the Sindh Command composed of V Corp and another Corp will give India pause should it chose to launch an offensive in Southern Punjab.

In total, Pakistan needs to increase the size of its Army from 550,000 to about 600,000 active duty men along with increasing the Reserve Force from 528,000 to 650,000 men along with 1,000 - 1,500 Tanks, and numerous anti-tank, artillery and anti-aircraft units.

This should be enough for Pakistan to wage an effective defensive war with India and prevent any territory from falling into Indian Hands.

Building an army takes time. It takes money. It takes vision and strategic acumen.

The last Pakistan has been found wanting on a number of coming togethers of the 2 armies in the past.

The second we all know Pakistan does not have ..... and is not likely to get in a hurry ..... short of a really rich uncle dying and leaving it billions in his will.

The first, as an Indian, living in India, and keeping ones eyes open and ear to the ground, I sadly feel is a luxury Pakistan simply does not have.

And looking at the current situation, in India, in Pakistan, and the world, all 3 are what India has plenty of vis-a-vis Pakistan.

Whatever Pakistan puts in place, India already had some years ago, and theres a lot more where that came from.

That said, there is a reason why India's Navy carries out all its top research and development in its top secret eastern ports.

I have been inside one such base and while I cannot obviously say anything, I can tell you that beyond the army and airforce, india is preparing a truly formidable Naval battering ram for use on its western coast.

If its an offensive, the ground forces all along the border will get into a scrimmage with the Pakistan army ..... and slowly and inexorably push forward.

The fly boys will make sure that the balance of power remains firmly tilted in the right direction ..... with penetration, saturation, and ground troop and logistical support ..... from both the East AND the West.

The Navy wil open a new front all along the the entire Pakistan coast ..... with saturation bombing ...... and obvious pinpoint strikes of key facilities.

This process of "tenderization" would last 2-3 weeks.

Enter week 4.

Then come the troop landings ..... syncing up with our ground force push from the east.

Simply put, Pakistan can just about delay the inevitable, if it comes, on the one front it has studiously manned for 62 years.

One more opens up, and its out of its depth ..... literally and figuratively.

The Navy is where India will land the sucker punch ..... come time.

Mark my words ..... said in peace.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Windjammer]

^^^^^^^^^^

Seems you have missed your dose of tranquilizers again.

Hell, the Cows may as well fly.

 

[Aslan]

Building an army takes time. It takes money. It takes vision and strategic acumen.

The last Pakistan has been found wanting on a number of coming togethers of the 2 armies in the past.

The second we all know Pakistan does not have ..... and is not likely to get in a hurry ..... short of a really rich uncle dying and leaving it billions in his will.

The first, as an Indian, living in India, and keeping ones eyes open and ear to the ground, I sadly feel is a luxury Pakistan simply does not have.

And looking at the current situation, in India, in Pakistan, and the world, all 3 are what India has plenty of vis-a-vis Pakistan.

Whatever Pakistan puts in place, India already had some years ago, and theres a lot more where that came from.

That said, there is a reason why India's Navy carries out all its top research and development in its top secret eastern ports.

I have been inside one such base and while I cannot obviously say anything, I can tell you that beyond the army and airforce, india is preparing a truly formidable Naval battering ram for use on its western coast.

The Navy is where India will pull some rabbits out of its hat ..... come time.

Mark my words ..... said in peace.

Cheers, Doc

Being a Pakistani I can tell you that a delusional analysis of yours holds ground only in your mind and country. What Pakistan can put forth India had already, good for your and like Ghalib said
Dil ko behlanay ka khayal acha hai ghalib.
Some times you guys say that we are sleeping, believing in the bs, our media keeps us misinformed. Yours is doing a better job with you guys.
How can you be so sure that Pakistan can't pull some of their rabbits out of the hat. Do you know what the Pakistan Army, AF and the navy had. Did they like call you or some. Talk with an open mind, and stop making assumptions.
And as of your bs about india running over Pakistan, well I can say only one thing to you nuts (which translated in the military terms means "go to hell").

And the above message is in peace.

 

[Aslan]

.....

To all of the delusional clowns that think that they can run over Pakistan and we will let you.

 

[vsdoc]

Fair enough .... you have a point. You guys would obviously have accounted for contingencies dreamed up by a delusional civilian like me strongly in need of tranquilizers/medical pot ..... and probaly discarded it in the waste bin fortright.

I was trying to respond to Mercenary's post.

Why dont you tell us where I have erred and lets take it from there?

All in peace of course ......

Cheers, Doc

 

[Windjammer]

"The first, as an Indian, living in India, and keeping ones eyes open and ear to the ground, I sadly feel is a luxury Pakistan simply does not have."
---------------------------------------------------
Seems they were well and truly shut and blocked during Mumbai scenario.
-----------------------------------------------------
"Whatever Pakistan puts in place, India already had some years ago, and theres a lot more where that came from."
-------------------------------------------------------
I agree with you on that one, as Pakistan was able to induct JF-17 in less than a decade, while the LCA has been around for 20 years.

 

[Kompromat]

Building an army takes time. It takes money. It takes vision and strategic acumen.

The last Pakistan has been found wanting on a number of coming togethers of the 2 armies in the past.

The second we all know Pakistan does not have ..... and is not likely to get in a hurry ..... short of a really rich uncle dying and leaving it billions in his will.

The first, as an Indian, living in India, and keeping ones eyes open and ear to the ground, I sadly feel is a luxury Pakistan simply does not have.

And looking at the current situation, in India, in Pakistan, and the world, all 3 are what India has plenty of vis-a-vis Pakistan.

Whatever Pakistan puts in place, India already had some years ago, and theres a lot more where that came from.

That said, there is a reason why India's Navy carries out all its top research and development in its top secret eastern ports.

I have been inside one such base and while I cannot obviously say anything, I can tell you that beyond the army and airforce, india is preparing a truly formidable Naval battering ram for use on its western coast.

If its an offensive, the ground forces all along the border will get into a scrimmage with the Pakistan army ..... and slowly and inexorably push forward.

The fly boys will make sure that the balance of power remains firmly tilted in the right direction ..... with penetration, saturation, and ground troop and logistical support ..... from both the East AND the West.

The Navy wil open a new front all along the the entire Pakistan coast ..... with saturation bombing ...... and obvious pinpoint strikes of key facilities.

This process of "tenderization" would last 2-3 weeks.

Enter week 4.

Then come the troop landings ..... syncing up with our ground force push from the east.

Simply put, Pakistan can just about delay the inevitable, if it comes, on the one front it has studiously manned for 62 years.

One more opens up, and its out of its depth ..... literally and figuratively.

The Navy is where India will land the sucker punch ..... come time.

Mark my words ..... said in peace.

Cheers, Doc

Well your post does depict some of the " wetty wet dreams of your chief " doesn't it?

What is the use of writing that many lines on a simple point that India would open as many fronts as they can to break Pakistan's military strengths.

All i can understand is Pakistan army can beat the crap out of of Indian army on Eastern Frontiers , Air force will guard the skies PAF can defend its skies it has proved already and it can deliver effective punch to IAF once again.

Once we must consider if Uboats 214 come our way it would be a " Pain " in IN's bumm .

Pakistan having F-22's , Type 54 Jiangkai-I Class Missile Frigate , Augosta 90b and missile boats loaded with C-802 anti-ship missiles ,PN McInerney (FFG-8) , and most of the frigates armed with Naval version of Babur Cruise missile will slay down any Indian Naval Attack.

This is what we call conventional , but if India does succeed to Bring Pakistan to its Military limits then I am afraid no one would be able to save India from a nuclear Doomsday