The Nefertiri conflict between germany and egypt

[KingMamba]

You are making a positive statement so the burden of proof is on you. I can't prove something that is not the case. I mean since the times of the Mamluks, Egypt was ruled by Turkic peoples, Turkic peoples picked the best women and ruled the lands of Egypt for centuries, will take give us the right to claim Ancient Egyptian culture? No, Turkic peoples were invaders just like the Arabic invaders were.

Actually the burden of proof is on you, you made the statement that Egyptians have nothing to do with Ancient Egyptians so bring forth genetic research of the like to support your claim.

Muhammad Ali Pasha was a Turk who revolted against the Ottomans. Now Muhammad Ali Pasha is Egyptian? He only spoke Albanian and Turkish. He didn't even speak Egyptian Arabic

Also we might be invaders and barbaric although our technology was superior compared to the west until 18th century, you guys are barbaric and uncivilized. Don't throw stones when you are living in a glass house. Since the times of the Mamluks, we ruled Egypt without any aid. Today Egypt gets billions of dollars of aid from the US and you still can't get things straight.

He was an Albanian that is kind of why he spoke Albanian lol.

 

[atatwolf]

Actually the burden of proof is on you, you made the statement that Egyptians have nothing to do with Ancient Egyptians so bring forth genetic research of the like to support your claim.

Burden of proof is for positive statements. Do you know what that means?

He was an Albanian that is kind of why he spoke Albanian lol.

He is not Egyptian either like he says He didn't even speak the Egyptian Arabic langauge

his army was Egyptian and that what matter even the best leader cant do anything without army
who are to even think you can tell Egyptians what to do as a matter of fact i have 1 advice you are becoming more hated than isreal europe dont want you even after you beg them to accept you iran syria iraq egypt gcc also are hostile to you and it is just a matter of time until you see the results of your policy

How did he communicate with you if you can't understand Turkish or Albanian? Muhammed Pasha wanted to carve his own empire for self-interests, he saw you as subjects to his thrown so don't get a hard one. He didn't act for the interest of the Ottoman Empire that is why he got dealt with.

 

[Mahmoud_EGY]

Muhammad Ali Pasha was a Turk who revolted against the Ottomans. Now Muhammad Ali Pasha is Egyptian? He only spoke Albanian and Turkish. He didn't even speak Egyptian Arabic

Also we might be invaders and barbaric although our technology was superior compared to the west until 18th century, you guys are barbaric and uncivilized. Don't throw stones when you are living in a glass house. Since the times of the Mamluks, we ruled Egypt without any aid. Today Egypt gets billions of dollars of aid from the US and you still can't get things straight.

We tried to put things into order in Egypt and unfortunately you destroyed your country with your own hands. It is sad but the truth.

his army was Egyptian and that what matter even the best leader cant do anything without army
who are to even think you can tell Egyptians what to do as a matter of fact i have 1 advice you are becoming more hated than isreal europe dont want you even after you beg them to accept you iran syria iraq egypt gcc also are hostile to you and it is just a matter of time until you see the results of your policy

How did he communicate with you if you can't understand Turkish or Albanian? Muhammed Pasha wanted to carve his own empire for self-interests and not for the interest of the Ottoman Empire. He got dealt with.

this is just stupid nothing can i say more about this

 

[KingMamba]

Burden of proof is for positive statements. Do you know what that means?


He is not Egyptian either like he says He didn't even speak the Egyptian Arabic langauge

That is incorrect, burden of proof is on the accuser in terms of criminal situation or the one making an assertion in terms of most other positions. You are engaging in a fallacy known as argumentum ad ignorantium by trying to shift the burden of proof on to the one questioning your assertion. Also known as reversed responsibility response.

Anyway do you have genetic proof on the matter or not? If not where did you get your info from, at the very least provide your original source.

 

[atatwolf]

That is incorrect, burden of proof is on the accuser in terms of criminal situation or the one making an assertion in terms of most other positions. You are engaging in a fallacy known as argumentum ad ignorantium by trying to shift the burden of proof on to the one questioning your assertion. Also known as reversed responsibility response.

Anyway do you have genetic proof on the matter or not? If not where did you get your info from, at the very least provide your original source.

That is not the definition of burden of proof. I think you need to reeducate yourself on this matter. If you accuse anybody of being a murderer, you have to come with proof that he did that crime. I don't have to come with proof that he didn't do it.

his army was Egyptian and that what matter even the best leader cant do anything without army
who are to even think you can tell Egyptians what to do as a matter of fact i have 1 advice you are becoming more hated than isreal europe dont want you even after you beg them to accept you iran syria iraq egypt gcc also are hostile to you and it is just a matter of time until you see the results of your policy


this is just stupid nothing can i say more about this

I'm sorry to tell you but Muhammed Pasha was not Egyptian. He didn't even care to learn Egyptian Arabic. He was Ottoman and his revolt had to do with his own thrown, not with Arabic nationalism. His army were mostly Mamluks Turks and some subject Arabs. Arabs had zero role in the revolt.

 

[Mahmoud_EGY]

I'm sorry to tell you but Muhammed Pasha was not Egyptian. He didn't even care to learn Egyptian Arabic. He was Ottoman and his revolt had to do with his own thrown, not with Arabic nationalism. His army were mostly Mamluks Turks and some subject Arabs. Arabs had zero role in the revolt.

muhamed ali pasha was albanian and the army was egyptian and again you are making up history i dare you to prove any of what you said

 

[atatwolf]

muhamed ali pasha was albanian and the army was egyptian and again you are making up history i dare you to prove any of what you said

I didn't say he was not Albanian. I said he was not Egyptian.

 

[Mahmoud_EGY]

I didn't say he was not Albanian. I said he was not Egyptian.

i know that i was talking about the army it was Egyptian

 

[Mahmoud_EGY]

So what is your point? Make your point. If you are trying to say he was an Arab nationalist, he wasn't. He crushed the Saudi's and other Arab revolts. If he used Arabs in his army, it is for the same reason why some civilizations used slaves in their army. It is to benefit himself. He wanted to create his own empire. Arabs had no say in this. Arabs in his army followed orders. If not, you get a bullet.

i am talking about Egyptians we got our revenge for occupying Egypt what you are talking about when some units are from some nationality in this case the entire army was Egyptian it was the kingdom of Egypt only the ruler was albanian and the victim in all this is ottoman invaders i am sure they did not think it was ok to invade other countries when our army defeated your army and we were one step from istanbul if it were not for european help modern day turkey would have been egyptian

 

[Mahmoud_EGY]

Muhammed Ali pasha was sent by Ottomans to rule that area of the Ottoman Empire which is called Egypt today. Before Ottoman rule, Egypt was ruled by Turkic Mamluks, who are you revenging? It wasn't your land in the first place. Anyway, I don't have time to educate you on every topic. My final notes:
-Mohammed Ali pasha was Ottoman official sent to rule Egypt
-He didn't speak Arabic, nor did he care to learn it
-He didn't care about Arabs, he smashed couple of Arabic revolts and massacred their families

1 he was albanian not ottoman
2 it is not important to me if he spoke arabic or not
3 any ruler in that age would have done the same
and if you dont have time simply dont respond to me

 

[atatwolf]

1 he was albanian not ottoman
2 it is not important to me if he spoke arabic or not
3 any ruler in that age would have done the same
and if you dont have time simply dont respond to me

He was Ottoman from Albanian descent. He was sent by Ottomans to rule Egypt. Would they sent him if he was Albanian?

So stupid

 

[Mahmoud_EGY]

He was Ottoman from Albanian descent. He was sent by Ottomans to rule Egypt. Would they sent him if he was Albanian?

So stupid

i am stupid???? he fought and killed alot of ottomans and most of the modern day turkey was under his army control is this the action of ottoman

 

[lowish]

I don't really see h

Muhammad Ali Pasha was a Turk who revolted against the Ottomans. Now Muhammad Ali Pasha is Egyptian? He only spoke Albanian and Turkish. He didn't even speak Egyptian Arabic

Also we might be invaders and barbaric although our technology was superior compared to the west until 18th century, you guys are barbaric and uncivilized. Don't throw stones when you are living in a glass house. Since the times of the Mamluks, we ruled Egypt without any aid. Today Egypt gets billions of dollars of aid from the US and you still can't get things straight.

We tried to put things into order in Egypt and unfortunately you destroyed your country with your own hands. It is sad but the truth.

Muhammad Ali Pasha was an Albanian Muslim.

 

[MarkusS]

You stole the whole temple, stone by stone. It's a well known fact.

You are thieves nothing more.

How are we thiefs when your own Sultan gave it as a gift? Isn´t your Sultan the thief then?

The fact of the matter is Markus, that it's an ancient Egyptian artifact. It's part of Egyptian history. Not German. If it was the opposite way around and this was a German artifact you would undoubtedly have demanded such an artifact to be handed back to Germany from whatever host country.

The fact is also that half of the artifacts in the most famous museums in Europe (I mentioned the two most famous - Louvre and The British Museum) are full of mainly artifacts from our ancient Semitic civilizations native to the present day Arab world. From ancient Arabia, to Egypt to Levant, to Mesopotamia to North Africa. Aside from those from other ancient civilizations in the world.

The link I posted shows that various European countries and Western (US included) returned 19.000 (!) ancient artifacts to KSA. Most of them were taken by early European archeologists and private Western (mainly Americans and Brits) Saudi Aramco employees without any respect for the host country and its heritage. The GCC has spent a lot of money for getting their stolen pre-Islamic artifacts and Islamic artifacts back and there have been cases of people selling those artifacts on Ebay. Can you imagine selling several millennium old artifacts in such a fashion? Imagine if someone sold ancient Roman and Greek artifacts on Ebay that were based in the ME or China or somewhere else.

At the same time I do appreciate and acknowledge the fact that it were Europeans who discovered much of the treasure houses of the ME and did most of the archaeological work although many World Unesco Heritage Sites were known by the locals in the Arab world but due to their Pagan past they were looked down upon or were either unknown for Westerner's due to their isolated location.

Here I can mention World UNESCO Heritage Sites such as Petra in Jordan, Mada'in Saleh in KSA, Hatra in Iraq etc. Those marvelous several millennium old architectural wonders were known for millenniums by the natives but European explorers and travelers first learnt about them 200-100 years ago.

I also agree that it is part of the human heritage and also that they should not be sent back if there are safety issues but that is not the case with most ME countries contrary to popular belief.

Egypt is perfectly capable of displaying their own heritage as @Frogman explained.

P.S:

I have seen many Italians that could pass for Arabs/ME people and vice versa and I do not think that you look South East Asian (LOL) and your nose might be a consequence of you pumping severe iron. I have seen this type of nose among other bodybuilder types.

Also tons of Latinos (especially in Brazil, Argentina, Chile) have Arab ancestry and I see many familiar faces from Latin America.

Where is your mother from in Italy? North, Central or Southern Italy? Or maybe Sardinia?

The local owner of the closest pizzeria next to my apartment is an Italian from Siracusa (Southeastern Sicily). He has praised that city quite a lot and I know that it is the birth city of the famous Greek Archimedes.

He told me that the cuisine of Siracusa is famous in Italy so I did some research on my own.

Cucina siracusana - Wikipedia

Can you confirm this?

My mama is from Lucca. Thats Tuscany. And her family has roots in Malcesine in northern italy as well as Bari in south italy. . Yes Sardinia has a very special kitchen. Its great. But some dishes you must get used to.

As for Nefertiri and this topic in general. I believe that those artifacts are not appreciated in their place of origin and evrything send there is mostly lost. How many people travel KSA to visit a museum? The number is almost zero.

As for our artifacts, i would have no problem if some are lend there so people can learn about our past. Depending on the item. I would not allow the imperial crown or things like this but other, for sure. Nefertiri spend more time in Berlin than she did in modern egypt and her special status is that she is german heritage item. Hitler made this law special for her. It cant be changed easily. Beside that i doubtwe would get anything in return that would be same worth.

it is not up to you to say this is ours and we can do with it what we want she was Egyptian the same blood runs in modern Egyptian people and if you have any problem with that i want to see you prove it our blood is more pure than you a white european should not talk about pure blood look at the street and see people from all over the world millions marrying and having kids in a fast rate i think the people who should be kept in museums are white euros they are a rare and endangered people

my blood as an italian is the same as yours who is egyptian. Egypt was part of roman empire and thus mixed completly. All mediterranean people are same. Beside that its questionable that Nefertiri was egyptian at all. Her name means "the beautyful has arrived". Many believe she came from another nation.

 

[-SINAN-]

How are we thiefs when your own Sultan gave it as a gift? Isn´t your Sultan the thief then?

You forged that "Sultan gave it as a gift" part too. No such thing...or show me the agreement then i will accept my mistake.