The Most powerful country in Islamic world

[sehranasheens]

Well friend i have told you that in conventional field Turkey is the powerfull country wether it is army ,navy or airforce.One of my friend post about the might of turkish navy .I will now state airforce
Turkey hase more than 200 F-16 blk 32 and they are doing CCIP upgrades to them which will make them par with blk 52 if not better.They have F-4E also.They are in talks with merica to buy 100 of additional F-16 blk 52 or either blk60.Now the most fascinating thing about themis they are working on JSF the stealth aircraft which will be inducted by 2015.This will make them one of the top airforce in the world.
Now i would like to tell my friends that dont underestimate the saudi arabia as it is recieving the sensitive militiary hardware from one of the top technnological powers i.e USA and europe and there are no constitutional hurdles to them to supply this to saudi arabia like pakistan.they are recieving 100 eurofighter Typhoon ,Blackhawk of more than 3 bn$ .but this are in just conventional field.Again pakistan is the number 1 becaus of its atomic bombs, missiles which include the sophisticated bubur cruise(turkey is in talks with pakistan to buy these cruise missiles.) . And if you will ask me that which islamic country that can severly harm the USA, my answer will be pakistan.

 

[JK!]

I was referring to the conventional capability of Turkey as opposed to nuclear capabilities.

I must disagree with your claim to harm the USA as we have no missile capable of hitting them and they probably have the most sophisticated anti ballistic missile capabilty in the world not to mention the Antiair craft capability.

 

[sehranasheens]

Yes i have already admitted in my first post that not only turkey but KSA is mighter than pakistan in conventional capabilities.
Well merely hitting usa with missiles not means harming usa. there rae money other ways to harm them.In case of full scale us invasion ,pakistan can hit the us naval command centre in qatar,thier bases in bahrain,degogarcia and other regional bases in central asia with nuclear tipped missiles. the us army in afghanistn will be n mercy in afghanistan will be on mercy of pakistan army.above all to attack pakistan they will have to brought up thier carriers in pakistani missile range will means , bye bye american carrier as one babur or abdali means one american carrier downed in the depth of arabian sea foreever.the us invasion on pakistan will result on pakisani invasion on israel.israel is the heart of america and attack on it will means heart attack on usa as three or four pakistni nuclear tipped missile will vanish israel from the face of the earth.
by the way pakistan is working on tipu icbm

 

[sehranasheens]

well these are not one sided planes. incase of any attack pakistan will respond

 

[Skull-Buster]

why Malaysia is in the list? they dont even have a tank!

 

[KashifAsrar]

I was reading this thread and it looked to me that the theme of the thread is not yet clear.
Millitary supriority is relative, for any country. This scenario change so often and so rapidly. We have several examples from our near and far countries.
To me a successful country have a 'KNOWLDGE' based society. That is the essence.
In that respect Pakistan is the ONLY country with muslim population to qualify for it. Education level is improving fast and so is the country's over all knowldge base. Rest all muslim dominated countries are still struggling to get the basic rights.
Kashif

 

[niaz]

We have to define what is meant by "Powerful" and in what context. IMO power is imposing your will on others. Military, money and influence are only the means to achieve this end. Even in the simple military sense, powerful should imply ability to "project power" and to continue fighting for a long time, regardless of the size and force of the enemy.

Based on this criterian, the apparently powerful countries such as Egypt and Pakistan are eliminated. Egypt was most powerful in Islamic world during Nasser's early years when nearly all the Arab countries did whatever Egypt wanted. Pakistan was never in this position. It could not influence even its smaller neighbour Afghanistan.

After Nasser's defeat in 6 day war in 1967. Iran under the Shah was the most powerful muslim country in the world. Shah used Iran's oil wealth to build up an immense arsenal and also dontad money to other countries. ( A donation of $500- million each to Pakistan and Egypt. In todays terms, the buying power would be closer to $5-billion; then Mirage 111 cost $3-million a piece). However 8 years war with Iraq put paid to that. Nevertheless Iran demonstarted her capacity to fight on her own and withstand Iraq when all the Arab countries along with the West were aiding Saddam with money, materials and intelligence. Despite Iran's theocratic regime and US pressure; to this day no one in Pakistan would be happy to fight Iran because we remember Iran's help during 1965 war and their gift of 100 odd Sabres just after the war.

Knowledge is no doubt power but in Pakistan's case our nuclear know how has become a liability. The reason of U-turn in our Afghan policy was because we were afraid that US would destroy our Nukes with cruise missiles and the India would be able to walk in. Besides, Pakistan is rife with internal strife. How can we influence others when we are unable to safeguard our vital assets such as gas pipelines from a few Baluchs. Pakistan under Musharraf has become a joke. His govt, for whatever reasons, has not been able to establish its writ even in Islamabad.( Lal Masjid). Long time ago I had read somewhere that empires fall because majority of the population are no longer willing to fight for their independence. This is true in Pakistan of today. Baluchs and NWFP would not be be willing to fight for Pakistan except if the enemy is India.

At this time I would say Saudi Arabia is probably the most powerful muslim country. It certainly has influence over all the Islamic world. KSA finanaced large part of war in Afghanistan and against Saddam. It also provided help to Pakistan during our lean times.
Even now Pakistan govt would find it hard to refuse a request by KSA. (Release of NS and his family !!). Iran is probably the next most powerful country.

 

[KashifAsrar]

We have to define what is meant by "Powerful" and in what context. IMO power is imposing your will on others. Military, money and influence are only the means to achieve this end. Even in the simple military sense, powerful should imply ability to "project power" and to continue fighting for a long time, regardless of the size and force of the enemy.

To me Power also tranlsates as defending oneself from any aggression: millitary, economic, social, cultural, political etc. Pakistan do not have a fairly good record on all of these issues but have on many of them. Stopping the powerfull, (Pakistanis can read USA and India) and holding on successfully what they have is no mean job, keeping in mind the size of these adversaries.

Pakistan was never in this position. It could not influence even its smaller neighbour Afghanistan.

Your neighbour is not week. Entire NATO forces are there to support the puppet government of Karzai.

Despite Iran's theocratic regime and US pressure; to this day no one in Pakistan would be happy to fight Iran because we remember Iran's help during 1965 war and their gift of 100 odd Sabres just after the war.

Agreed 100%.

Knowledge is no doubt power but in Pakistan's case our nuclear know how has become a liability. .

Again wrong Niaz sahab. It was the only ability that saved pakistan after 911.
This was the only POWER because of which USA 'Offerred' some thing to bargain of with Pakistan. Otherwise, It would have different story.

The reason of U-turn in our Afghan policy was because we were afraid that US would destroy our Nukes with cruise missiles and the India would be able to walk in.

Remeber Power respects Power! untill pakistan have nukes and ability to deliver them to targets, NO One, read again No one can take a direct 'Panga' with Pakistan.

Besides, Pakistan is rife with internal strife. How can we influence others when we are unable to safeguard our vital assets such as gas pipelines from a few Baluchs. Pakistan under Musharraf has become a joke. His govt, for whatever reasons, has not been able to establish its writ even in Islamabad.( Lal Masjid). Long time ago I had read somewhere that empires fall because majority of the population are no longer willing to fight for their independence. This is true in Pakistan of today. Baluchs and NWFP would not be be willing to fight for Pakistan except if the enemy is India.

This require a political solution.

At this time I would say Saudi Arabia is probably the most powerful muslim country. It certainly has influence over all the Islamic world. KSA finanaced large part of war in Afghanistan and against Saddam. It also provided help to Pakistan during our lean times.
Even now Pakistan govt would find it hard to refuse a request by KSA. (Release of NS and his family !!). Iran is probably the next most powerful country.

They are themselves vulnerable. If you have an eye on development in Gulf, then you know these people (Sheikhs and Kings) are feeling the extreme heat from thier population.
Kashif

 

[Ababeel]

why Malaysia is in the list? they dont even have a tank!

You are right. Malaysia has only recently taken few steps to build her military. I think Indonesia, Nigeria and Syria must be in this list.

 

[Ababeel]

To me a successful country have a 'KNOWLDGE' based society. That is the essence.
In that respect Pakistan is the ONLY country with muslim population to qualify for it. Education level is improving fast and so is the country's over all knowldge base. Rest all muslim dominated countries are still struggling to get the basic rights.
Kashif

You are wrong, Only Malaysia and turkey can be considered as the knowledge based economies of the muslim world.It's the fact and even Pak minister of S & T Dr. Ataur Rehman has mentioned this in a report. Turkey ranked 22nd in the world in research papers produced in I think in 2003. Malaysia has 80% of her export from high tech category (Electronics and Semiconductors), similarly Turkish Electronics based exports are also rising by leaps and bounds.
Although you are right to some extent as Pakistan and even Iran Jordan, Egypt, Indonesia and Saudi Arabia are also marching towards knowledge based economies, either slow or fast to mention a few from OIC list.

 

[Adux]

Again wrong Niaz sahab. It was the only ability that saved pakistan after 911.
This was the only POWER because of which USA 'Offerred' some thing to bargain of with Pakistan. Otherwise, It would have different story.

You under-estimate the US, they are a War Machine designed to fight Soviets,They can destroy the world atleast 3 times over, No mean feat.
US would have attacked Pakistan without a second thought at 9/11 had Musharraf not agreed. Simple as that. Pakistan dont nothing to them. American Spy network is the most extensive they have, even more than Russia.

PS: Good Post Niaz Sir, as always

 

[kidwaibhai]

You under-estimate the US, they are a War Machine designed to fight Soviets,They can destroy the world atleast 3 times over, No mean feat.
US would have attacked Pakistan without a second thought at 9/11 had Musharraf not agreed. Simple as that. Pakistan dont nothing to them. American Spy network is the most extensive they have, even more than Russia.

PS: Good Post Niaz Sir, as always

dude i completely agree with you but you make it seem that the US would have attacked pakistan and that would have been that. the problem with this argument is that after they had attacked pakistan it would have been next to impossible to stabilise afghanistan. so yes the US could have attacked pakistan but we could also have done massive amounts of damage to the US vis via afghanistan.

 

[Adux]

dude i completely agree with you but you make it seem that the US would have attacked pakistan and that would have been that. the problem with this argument is that after they had attacked pakistan it would have been next to impossible to stabilise afghanistan. so yes the US could have attacked pakistan but we could also have done massive amounts of damage to the US vis via afghanistan.

Kidwayiji

If they attacked Pakistan, I am not saying pakistan wont fight back, but how long? Lets accept US as it is, like it or not they are a War Machine with a lot of economic might.

The series of events might not have been way it is now, if they had to attack Pakistan, I dont think Iraq would have happened. They would have concentrated on Pakistan and Afghanistan; India might also play up its cards; after the Americans have taken out the Nuclear Forces, or would try to take it out themseleves. It will be a different series of events.

 

[muhammadazeemazam]

Hi Fellows
Its my First Post to the Forum.
First of all America will not strike on PAKISTAN.
It will create such imbalance in asia and such suitations that India will strike on Pakistan.
In urdu we say some thing like that "AIK TEER SEE DOOO SHIKAR".
Both(INDIA and PAKISTAN) countries will be destroyed. Now america has to think about China.
Now if USA Directly strike on Pakistan than no one is blind. Pakistan Army might have considered the options, what to do in that case.
Like the case when Islaralis jet fighters were in Kashmir when pakistan was going to test Nuclear Weapons (May 1998). Why didn't Islaris jet flew to attack on Pakistan Nuclear Sites.
So it will be a war between India and Pakistan NOT USA.
Best Regards
Allah Hafiz

 

[Adux]

Like the case when Islaralis jet fighters were in Kashmir when pakistan was going to test Nuclear Weapons (May 1998).

Israeli fighters in india to attack pakistan!!!! ok mate!!