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well my forigner friends pakistan has got mirv . i was not saying hitting aircraft carrier with MIRV. i said that pakistanhas got the MIRV and by getting icbm we would be able to hit american cities without the fear of bieng coutered by anti ballistics. Ok for information sake i agree that pakistan cannt hit carrier with pinpoint accuracy , but falling a nuke in circle of 25 miles will also sink the carrier . do you know what an atomic bomb is? pakista has got mirv and here is link.
http://**************************/index.php?showtopic=66155
i can show dozens more link.
now with babur or ar babur 2 we can hit the carrier . and for your information babur is a nightmare. it is hard even to detect it . USA is feard of iran about thier carrier which is nil to pakistan in missile tech. As for as subs are concerned yes indeed there will

Ok now you are just making a laughing stock of yourself here........you obviously know nothing at all........

1)British and American sub tech would sink the SSK's before they got close to anything.
2)25 miles away would take a huge warhead (several megatonnes) and also you would still have to find out WHERE THE SHIPS ARE!!!!!!! Also I hope you are aware they have actually tested nuclear weapons near ships and most of them still floated afterwards.
3)A missile is nothing if you don't know where to target it. Thanks for telling us about Babur now tell me about SM2,rolling RAM and Aegis. Of course the Americans know nothing about Cruise missiles having got Tomahawks....:disagree:

Now stop posting crap because we are all getting bored......... I think we need to check where you are posting from and make sure it gets sealed off. either you are flaming or there is a rampant stupidity epidemic and we need to seal it off from the rest of the world.
 
I hope you are aware they have actually tested nuclear weapons near ships and most of them still floated afterwards..


show him a vid to prove it

Shas take note keys talking wisdom.
 
well friend without bringing thier aircraft carrier in pakistani missile range they cannot attack pakistan. what do you expect from their lammb army, a ground invasion, no man never. thier attack will be from aircraft carrier. and asa for as air defence is concerned i think thier is no air defence to cruise missile and for your kind information pakistan has cruise missiles which are not scud

1- American aircraft with inflight reefueling out range missiles.

2- Stealth
2A F-22 will destroy PAF without ever beign seen
2B B-2 will knock out C4SI without ever being seen
2C America has a stealth nuclear cruise missile, Islamabad and Karachi gone without a warning
2D American stealth UAV's and satalite can track pakistani movements at will.
3- Subs they can sink the pakistani navy within days and then launch old fashioned tommahawks at will.
4- US has a multi-layed ABM/ACM system inplace involving both ships gorund and air. The USN has a great deal of practice in countering supersonic cruise missiles and can block flight routes to Diego Garcia.
 
well we are just discussing it for information sake. pakistan has many things but donot test it coze of policy. pakistan current has GHAURI3 ( 4000) SHAHHEN 3 ( 4500+) and tipu 1 (5000+) but do not test it. pakistan has the logic of countering india for it,s vast militiary establishment and pakistan has already got those missile which can hit anywhere in india . now pakistan will not test it until rising tension either with usa or israel. so is the case with MIRV pakistan has but dont test it . i have posteed a link to confirm it.
 
well i think you dont update your information and just talking the bullshit kesezror. ok agree with your logic that pakistan nave cannot harm USA on any case. but let me tell you to that attacking karachi and lahore , the american modern aircraft will not find a place to land while going back to thier carriers . i know pakistan will be devastated. but will take away many with iteself. and you told about that haw pakista can find aircraft carrier . haha again bullshit and scrap talking. it is nit the needle. is is a giant, an aircraft carrier . there is chinese satelite and also our own the PAK SET 1 . pakistan can get the location by any satelite and remember there are too many satelite in space that are not american. with depleted uranium bomb and with cruise of MIRV pakistan will be able to sinkdown the carrier. And remeber pakistan is not maldives that can be destroyed by cruise missiles. and if you are bored dont even dare to enter in thi forum. well you have included the britian in the battle . let me tell you that britian hasn ot that much territory and that is the job of 10 nuke missiles to pakistan.
 
one more thing. what will be the state of nation resistance. pakistan is a country of weaponised culture . there you may find 2 or three ak-47 or klashinkoves in every home. there is a huge market and industry which make the sensitive weapons like RPGs grenades , LMG and various type of small arms in Darra and bara sector of pakistan. so the weapon availibility will be not a problem. this is a nation with a vast war experience . Very patriotic and hot people. the public view is vastly againt the USA in pakistan particularly the new generation. and this is the thing that my forigner friends may not unferstand coze of thier inexperience of pakistani society except those one who has passed a long time in pakistan. in secular country like iraq where the population was educated and they even dont know how to shoot , they are brought to thier knees there. now assess the resistance in pakistan.
 
Yes sehranasheens Pakistan has an very Impressive miltary. Paksitan will not use nuclear on US even if they got rockest to reach there as Pakstan is a Muslim country and as being a Muslim its against Islam to kill civilains even in times of war.
 
Dude, you serioulsly need to have your brains checked! :disagree:
Take a seven day break for insulting a mod, I've had enough of your BS!

Neo
 
I think the Pakistani Army is the pride of the Ummah, and I think most if not all Muslims will agree.

Pakistani has defended itself against an enemy several times bigger, it has supported arab nations during wars and taught their pilots. It's contracted to go abroad for UN, they're the most stable institution in the country. They get into action to protect the citizens from national disasters, internal and external threats.

The US cannot afford to take on Pakistan, they have India & Israel for that. So it would never be Pakistan vs US, it would be Pakistan vs USreal + Indian.

"He was a formidable fellow and I was glad that he was Pakistani and not Egyptian"
(Israel Air Force chief Ezer Weizmen writing about PAF chief Nur Khan in his autobiography, On Eagles' Wings).
 
well we are just discussing it for information sake. pakistan has many things but donot test it coze of policy. pakistan current has GHAURI3 ( 4000) SHAHHEN 3 ( 4500+) and tipu 1 (5000+) but do not test it. pakistan has the logic of countering india for it,s vast militiary establishment and pakistan has already got those missile which can hit anywhere in india . now pakistan will not test it until rising tension either with usa or israel. so is the case with MIRV pakistan has but dont test it . i have posteed a link to confirm it.
Dude!

Regarding Missiles:

We have currently made some progress in case of only one long range missile so far and that is Ghauri III, which has a range of over 3000 KM. This Missile is not yet complete and it will be tested for several years before being given to PAK Army. The details of Tipu are largely unknown and logic dictates that it will take us more time to develop that Missile because it is more complex then Ghauri III.

But I must tell you that Ballistic Missiles are only effective against large static targets. And American military doctrine largely focuses on Mobility. You must note that Pakistani scientists developed a Cruise Missile for a good reason.

Regarding India:

Our Missiles will be useful in case of conflict against India because our Ballistic Missiles can hit many Indian cities with ease and our Cruise Missiles can hit important Indian assets with ease. The main thing is that India is within the target sphere of our Missiles. India also enjoys similar privileges against us.

Regarding US:

Now this is an entirely different scenario. We will be facing an enemy that is fully mobile, has long range weapons of different kinds, excellent mid-air refuelling capabilities for its Airforce, stealth weapons that can move over our air space without being detected, Missiles that can directly hit any part of our country without warning, tactical Nukes, huge Bombs (i.e: MOAB and Daisy Cutter), EMP Weapons, highly advanced Surveillance technology and not to forget that Americans will take all kinds of precautionary measures before launching an attack (God forbid). Against this kind of foe, we have very little chance for doing any serious harm.

Remember that US military has been designed for total domination against any foe. Our military is mainly designed to counter the threat of our hostile neighbours. There is big difference between the doctrines of these two militaries, which is immensely influenced by the economy factor.

Regarding Pakistan (Our Country):

We should be proud to note that we are capable of defending ourselves from the main threat that we face but it does not means that we should exaggerate our abilities.

Still we are a Nuclear power and perhaps the strongest muslim nation in the world. Thanks to the immense efforts of our scientists.
 
one more thing. what will be the state of nation resistance. pakistan is a country of weaponised culture . there you may find 2 or three ak-47 or klashinkoves in every home. there is a huge market and industry which make the sensitive weapons like RPGs grenades , LMG and various type of small arms in Darra and bara sector of pakistan. so the weapon availibility will be not a problem. this is a nation with a vast war experience . Very patriotic and hot people. the public view is vastly againt the USA in pakistan particularly the new generation. and this is the thing that my forigner friends may not unferstand coze of thier inexperience of pakistani society except those one who has passed a long time in pakistan. in secular country like iraq where the population was educated and they even dont know how to shoot , they are brought to thier knees there. now assess the resistance in pakistan.
What you seem to forget is that there are always some elements in most nations that can betray at the time of need. Does the case of militant movement in Balochistan rings any bells?

Also (thanks to Allah) we have never experienced a full scale invasion, since our freedom. And many people in our country are not familiar with the hazards of a full scale military invasion and suffer from the over-pride syndrome. Also, Keeping hand-held weapons does not give Pakistani civilians any credible deterrence against a powerful military force. And many people in Pakistan also do not know how to shoot well.

Look at Afghanistan! That nation has yet to recover from the military invasion by Soviet Union, which took place more then 25 years ago and only brought instability and destruction to that country.

Regarding Iraqi resistance:

You even fail to acknowledge the feats of Iraqi resistance. The level of resistance that Iraqi people have demonstrated against the invader is actually amazing. Iraqi resistance have actually surprised the entire world. And it is 100% true that Sunni and Shia Iraqi militias have indeed put up joint resistances against US military forces on several occassions and most notably in 2004. And one thing you should note is that Iraqi resistance is actually fighting against the most powerful military force in the world. And putting some sort of credible resistance against such a foe is alone a notable feat to acknowledge.

Even if the Iraqi resistance fails to meet its objective. History will still acknowledge that Iraqi people did put up some fight at-least and that too against the most powerful army on Earth.

Though it is sad to notice that Iraqi people now suffer from the internal strife of a major secretarian voilence and Iraq seems to be on the brink of getting split.

This is the ultimate casualty, a nation can suffer from a devastating invasion. Remember the crises in Afghanistan after the Soviets left? The Mujhideen factions actually turned their guns on each other.
 
Regarding Iraqi resistance:

You even fail to acknowledge the feats of Iraqi resistance. The level of resistance that Iraqi people have demonstrated against the invader is actually amazing. Iraqi resistance have actually surprised the entire world. And it is 100% true that Sunni and Shia Iraqi militias have indeed put up joint resistances against US military forces on several occassions and most notably in 2004. And one thing you should note is that Iraqi resistance is actually fighting against the most powerful military force in the world. And putting some sort of credible resistance against such a foe is alone a notable feat to acknowledge.

Even if the Iraqi resistance fails to meet its objective. History will still acknowledge that Iraqi people did put up some fight at-least and that too against the most powerful army on Earth.

Though it is sad to notice that Iraqi people now suffer from the internal strife of a major secretarian voilence and Iraq seems to be on the brink of getting split.

This is the ultimate casualty, a nation can suffer from a devastating invasion. Remember the crises in Afghanistan after the Soviets left? The Mujhideen factions actually turned their guns on each other.

The Iraqi resistence has failed miserably, 3445 American dead for over 50,000 Insurgent dead. But thats not the real failure, the real failure is the 100,000 plus civillians they have killed with thier bombs and the billions in reconstruction that has been wasted. US builds a pipeline- insurgents blow it up, US builds a school-insugents kill the teachers, US fixes the power grid- insurgents wreck the transmission towers, US says repeatedly stop fightign so we can go home- insurgents pick up the level of violence, US says Mosgues are off limits- insurgents turn them into bases, US catches a tyrant and turns him over for justice- insurgents kidnap aid workers and behead them.

How exactly is this hurting America. Its wrecked a several thousand lives and cost billions, but compared to the damage they are doing to themselves its just a drop in the bucket. By now 4 years after the invasion, Iraq could have been rebuilt and remade as a prosperous country, and US troops could be home. Instead an already ruined country has been knocked to the level of African third world by its own ihabitants and forgien co-religionist. The Insurgents are not defeating America they are defeating thier own children who will have to live with the mess they've made.

When at the end of the day America goes home I will still have power, television, internet medical care, clean water, food, and hope and all the things the insurgents denied to Iraq with thier stupid jihad. I might have to pay a few more dollars in taxes to recoup the costs of the war but, oh well my country of 1/3 billion people will go on watching "So You Think You Can Dance" or "CSI." If anything America will be a bit more jaded about Islam, and far more ready to just bomb-n-go when we have problems with anyone who calls themselves a Muslim, and a lot less willing to take on even more public debt next time some earthquake or tidal wave or famine hits the Ummahh some where on Gods green earth. After all if you hate us and God/ Fate/ Mother Nature does us a favor and wipes 70,00 or 165,000 of you out in a single blow who are we to naysay that and rush to rescue.

But then again we might remain caring and generous, unlike the Islam practiced by those engaging in the insurgency and secterian violence in Iraq, "love thy neighbor and Love thine enemies" is a tenet of faith for most Americans.

Plus America knows unlike many on this and other sites that most Iraqies are not insurgents, that there are more police and national guard than insurgents (if not religious militia). They don't plant bombs, they get bombed by their fellow Muslims. When an Iraqi National Guardsmen gets wounded by his fellow Muslim and he needs a miracle and an angel to survive, it ussaly takes the form of an American medevac and trauma system. Did any of you ever wonder who provides the majority of the funding and supplies for Iraq's medical system? pays for food, and provides reconstruction jobs, buys school books and supplies, tried to get Saddam's war debt releived.... America so ya I guess we are the evil colonial power after all.
 
@ zraver

I agree with your POV regarding failure of Iraqi insurgency to some extent but you must not forget that insurgency is still not under control even after 4 years of occupation. I know that Iraqi insurgency has actually caused more damage to the Iraqi infrastructure then it did to the US Military. I even condemn suicide bombing tactics used by some of the Iraqi militants because such tactics have caused massive harm to innocent civilians. Iraqi militants often resort to such insane tactics because they do not have much options to deal with the threat of US military power and there would be some personal reasons as well. Still the level of resistance that has been put up by the Iraqi insurgency is more then it was originally anticipated, though it hardly affects US military because it can tolerate lot more. It is however true that Iraq has now become a hard challenge to deal with for the current US administration, thanks to Rumsfield's brilliant ideologies about Iraq.

Another thing is that when you go and occupy a nation, some people in that nation will put up resistance at all costs. You cannot expect all people in that nation to bow before you. No one in this modern era likes occupation and slavery.

War only brings death, destruction and instability to a region. It is a pure fantasy that once you destroy a nation, you can then re-built it. This does not works now.

And what will be the result of this war in the end? US will leave while Iraq will be left in ruins. And we should not forget that this war will cause more rift in already sensitive relations between Americans and Muslims, which is not a good sign for expected peaceful future.

There was some sort of stability in Iraq and voilence was under control before this invasion took place. And even if situation was bad in Iraq before the invasion, it went from bad to worse after the invasion. I do not consider the current occupation of Iraq to be a justified act.
 
just tell me Zraver; how much % of the Iraq is under the collation control? :azn:
 
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