The Mongols Meet Their Match: The Battle of Ain Jalut

[Mamluk]

I for one don't think Battle of Ain Jalut was decisive for Mongols.
Qutuz won the battle by fluke for he did nothing to win the war in my opinion.
The events that ensured his success were the following
1) Small Mongolian army: When Heluga left for China, he knew he was taking the bulk of the army leaving his general with just 20K soldiers.
2) Support of Baiburs: Baiburs and Qutuz despite being bitter enemies had come together to fight the enemies. The advantage was two fold, one, that it increased Qutuz's army's strength. Two, Baibura was familiar with the terrain for he had spent time there as a fugitive.
3) Baibur's strategy to give Mongolians a taste of their own medicine. Idea of emulating the Mongolian Feigned retreat was brilliant.
4) use of firearms: prolly these were very primitive, yet the smoke and noise would have confused the soldiers and horses alike.
@Nilgiri

1) Both sides had 20k soldiers.

2) Give her a candy for knowing names of Muslim generals! What exactly is your point? Mongols also had support of other Mongol generals.

3) Yes they were brilliant.

4) And slightly more technologically advanced.


Funny historically insignificant hindus trying to downplay a Muslim victory against a force that brought every major civilization down to it's knees - Europeans (got lucky when the Khan died), Chinese and Japanese (almost).

Don't forget the Delhi Sultans saved your ar$e from Mongols.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

Most of mamluks are decendents of mongols.

Not true

Most Mamluks were descended from Turks,Circassians,Georgians,Abkhazians,Slavs from Bosnia/Albania/Greeks etc.

Mamluks were never taken from Mongol tribes at any point in time.

Well, What else do you expect if you treat Mongol Diplomats so poorly.

Baghdad never murdered Mongol ambassadors the Egyptian Mamluks did, know the difference.

There is a reason why the general who sacked Baghdad was punished severely.

 

[Hellraiser007]

Not true

Most Mamluks were descended from Turks,Circassians,Georgians,Abkhazians,Slavs from Bosnia/Albania/Greeks etc.

Mamluks were never taken from Mongol tribes at any point in time.



Baghdad never murdered Mongol ambassadors the Egyptian Mamluks did, know the difference.

There is a reason why the general who sacked Baghdad was punished severely.

The tribes mentioned by you once worked for mongols learning the mongol way of warfare. Plus mamluks do have soldiers who have mongol ancestory .

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

The tribes mentioned by you once worked for mongols learning the mongol way of warfare.

Circassians,Georgians,Albanians,Bosnians,Greeks,Turks did not work for the mongols

Neither did they learn the mongol way of warfare whatever that means.

Plus mamluks do have soldiers who have mongol ancestory .

Nope, not a single drop.

 

[Levina]

1) Both sides had 20k soldiers.

Unless a neutral source is quoted I would not take that number at face value. It's very rare in history when both sides have fought with equal number of men.
Qutuz had a larger army>>>

http://erenow.com/ww/warfareinthemedievalworld/21.html

2) Give her a candy for knowing names of Muslim generals! What exactly is your point? Mongols also had support of other Mongol generals.

Please keep more candies ready, I'm good at this. Trust me.

Funny historically insignificant hindus trying to downplay a Muslim victory against a force that brought every major civilization down to it's knees - Europeans (got lucky when the Khan died), Chinese and Japanese (almost).

Don't forget the Delhi Sultans saved your ar$e from Mongols.

Insignificant Hindus?
You need some good lessons in history.
Lolz

What exactly is your point?

Buddy you get your eyes tested for I Had explained it well in my previous post >>>

The advantage was two fold, one, that it increased Qutuz's army's strength. Two, Baibura was familiar with the terrain for he had spent time there as a fugitive.

So you see merely having a Mongol was no ticket to victory. Qutuz was lucky enough to have had Baibura by his side. Baibura was the smart one here, he wanted to thwart the Mongol attack plus he knew that if they manage to win the war Qutuz can be done with.

@Proudpakistaniguy this is a perfect example of what i was propogating to u, we have seen disunity and destruction before, the mongols made a bigger mess of middleast than the americans could ever do yet all it took was one leader who dispelled the myth of the might of the enemy, all it took was courage of one man and islam as a political power was saved, this paved way for the ottoman caliphate to emerge, things are never too hopeless as long as there are a few men willing to dare to dream big against overwhelming odds, the mongols were deemed invincible by the known world until this one man sprung up the courage to dispell the myth...

Errr ...did you quote me by mistake?

 

[Jaanbaz]

Indian members cannot believe the Muslims won this crucial battle and thus ending Halagu's constant depopulation of Middle East. These are the same ''respected'' Indians who on their own forums celebrate sack of Baghdad and dance whenever there is a bomb blast in Pakistan.

 

[Mamluk]

Unless a neutral source is quoted I would not take that number at face value. It's very rare in history when both sides have fought with equal number of men.
Qutuz had a larger army>>>
View attachment 394299

It is very well known that Egyptians forces stood at 20k.

<>
Hülegü, the Mongol general, demanded that Sultan al-Muzaffar Sayf al-Din Qutuz, the Muslim ruler of Egypt, also yield to them. Hülegü threatened that if he did not, Egypt would suffer dire consequences. Hülegü’s forces outnumbered the Egyptian army of 20,000 by some 15 to 1. “The Muslim world stood face to face with extinction,” says Professor Nazeer Ahmed, a historian of Islam. What was Sultan Qutuz to do?
<>

From same source,
<>
Word reached Hülegü that Möngke, the Mongol great khan, had died in distant Mongolia. Foreseeing a power struggle back home, Hülegü withdrew with most of his army. He left behind between 10,000 and 20,000 troops—sufficient, he thought, to complete the conquest of Egypt. Qutuz now perceived that the tide had turned in his favor. He determined that if he was to defeat the invaders, this was his opportunity to do so.
<>

Source: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102012085#h=2

-------------------

So Muslim and Mongol forces were evenly matched.

And stop posting from random blogs of no academic value.

I hope everyone can see her disgusting hindu bias.
@EgyptianAmerican

 

[Levina]

He left behind between 10,000 and 20,000 troops—sufficient, he thought, to complete the conquest of Egypt.

It takes only an iota of common sense to understand that when Hulegu left 20K mongol soldiers behind he didn't know Baibura would join hands with Qutuz.
Baibura in my opinion is the true victor In this war.
His strategies worked, his knowledge of terrain was an added advantage plus he brought in a big army for Qutuz.
In the end he was the only one who survived.

I hope everyone can see her disgusting hindu bias.

Tsk tsk
It is the doofus who resort to personal attack when they begin to loose their ground.
Not once but twice you have done that to me on this thread.
I do not lower my standard by debating with ppl who have nothing to contribute to a topic.


Ciao.

 

[Mamluk]

Ciao.

I think it's a difference in culture. You simply don't have it in you to admit your mistake and re educate yourself, unless you were intent on deliberately misinforming others.

 

[Mrc]

I think people don't understand the gravity of situation here....

mongols had not lost a battle since the ventured out of steppe under ganges khan... they have destroyed china, muslim empires in central asia, aghanistan...

the well established super power of that time, the abbasiyad empire, trembled and fell to mongol oards, Baghdad was sacked like nothing before...city burned dams destroyed... Russia was sacked.... mongols were venturing into hungary and Poland.... nothing was able to stop their march...

brutality was such that during known documented history, only the period of ganges upto halagu khan, the human population of world actually declined....

for muslim world, after fall of central asia and caliphate, there was practically nothing standing between them and total destruction...

no body expected mamluks to win.... they were not known for military strength or any significant victories..

when helagu khan left, he was confident of victory... that's why he pressed ahead with assault....

why he left , its an act of GOD, beyond human power.. so I cannot say what would happen if he has not left...

but one thing is for sure. mongols did not enter battle for defeat...

 

[Mamluk]

when helagu khan left, he was confident of victory... that's why he pressed ahead with assault....

why he left , its an act of GOD, beyond human power.. so I cannot say what would happen if he has not left...

but one thing is for sure. mongols did not enter battle for defeat...

Only Europe got lucky. On Great Khan's death, Subutai had to pack up and leave. There was basically no power between the steppes and the North Atlantic that could stop Subutai's forces if he pushed ahead.

 

[Mrc]

Only Europe got lucky. On Great Khan's death, Subutai had to pack up and leave. There was basically no power between the steppes and the North Atlantic that could stop Subutai's forces if he pushed ahead.

they were invincible.... established superpowers crumbled like their castles were made of sand....

battle of ain jalat shattered their image of invincibility.... world came to know that they can be defeated... and that they are only humans

 

[Mamluk]

they were invincible.... established superpowers crumbled like their castles were made of sand....

battle of ain jalat shattered their image of invincibility.... world came to know that they can be defeated... and that they are only humans

Actually an earlier lesser known battle shattered their invincibility. I don't know if you read about that.. if you're interested: Battle of Parwan .

It was led by Jalal al-Din, heir to Khwarezmian empire, with his Pashtun allies.

 

[BordoEnes]

Most of mamluks are decendents of mongols.

No. Just no.

Mongols were defeated by Khilji Army four times in modern day Pakistan.

Ofcourse they were. If you are going name your army the "Sword Army" you better achieve some victories amirite?

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

but one thing is for sure. mongols did not enter battle for defeat...

And, not were the Osmanli till 1699 AC....

From the ashes due to the ravages of the Mongols rose the Osmanli Empire to protect the Muslim heartlands from going under the overwhelming Persian or European domination for the next 7 centuries. Interestingly, a lot of the Turkish folks served in the Mongol Army and, thereby, leant a few tricks. That's how Murad-i Ilahi works in cycles only if we knew!!!!!