The making of the Kargil disaster Excerpts from Nasim Zehra's book, 'From Kargil To The Coup: Events

[Indus Pakistan]

Why are there attempts to keep army away from what's their basic task!

I come from a family which has provided generation after generation to the army. We have been like the cannon fodder. Further the region I come from has history of providing soldiers to the military and the army is very close to our hearts. In fact that is why I joined PDF. There was a time in our family that the army was the only career open other than tilling the ground to make a living.

However that does not mean I support the use of army for personal brag rights or suicide missions. Kargil was suicide meets stupidity and bluster. Musharaf did the blustering and the normal jawan paid with blood. It is easy for you urban types to flex your muscles but armies are made of somebodies husbands, sons, uncle etc

The fact is Pakistan can never defeat India on the conventional front. Never. If there was a chance that has long gone. The simple reason is India is too large. Too humongous. However brave our warriors are they will always face hopeless odds. For instance Belgiums population is nearly 12 million and Germany is nearly 80 million. That Belgium/German disparity in men/resources is about same as Pak/India. From history we know Belgium could never stand up to Germany and was often trampled over within days by Germans. We can get comfort from the fact that we have never been trampled on by India. But defeating India is not on the cards.

Unless you can get your relatives/ethno-religious groups in India [Indian Muslims] to start fighting Indian government like Taliban are fighting NATO, Tajiks of Northern Alliance go as NUG in which case I would support a all out attack on India.

 

[Aasimkhan]

I come from a family which has provided generation after generation to the army. We have been like the cannon fodder. Further the region I come from has history of providing soldiers to the military and the army is very close to our hearts. In fact that is why I joined PDF. There was a time in our family that the army was the only career open other than tilling the ground to make a living.

However that does not mean I support the use of army for personal brag rights or suicide missions. Kargil was suicide meets stupidity and bluster. Musharaf did the blustering and the normal jawan paid with blood. It is easy for you urban types to flex your muscles but armies are made of somebodies husbands, sons, uncle etc

The fact is Pakistan can never defeat India on the conventional front. Never. If there was a chance that has long gone. The simple reason is India is too large. Too humongous. However brave our warriors are they will always face hopeless odds. For instance Belgiums population is nearly 12 million and Germany is nearly 80 million. That Belgium/German disparity in men/resources is about same as Pak/India. From history we know Belgium could never stand up to Germany and was often trampled over within days by Germans. We can get comfort from the fact that we have never been trampled on by India. But defeating India is not on the cards.

Unless you can get your relatives/ethno-religious groups in India [Indian Muslims] to start fighting Indian government like Taliban are fighting NATO, Tajiks of Northern Alliance go as NUG in which case I would support a all out attack on India.

Bhai my generations including me have also served the Army, there is nothing as such as NEVER in military possibilities, we have defeated them many times in history and we will do it again inshaAllah. As for Kargil operation as I was there so i I can say that it was a brilliant plan but poorly executed. General Mahmud, commander FCNA General javed and commnader 80 brigade deserved to be court martialed but all got promoted and enjoying their lives

 

[The BrOkEn HeArT]

He was on board from the day one..later he N.S turned military success into political debacle and announced ceasefire (Unconditional) without consulting the armed forces and punished accordingly.

Lol.
Your army can start a war without your PM permission but they need his permission to stop the war.
Hypocrisy at the best.
The truth is Kargil was a huge failure for pakistan on all fronts.

 

[Aasimkhan]

I agree with you but we did our duck shooting to the fullest, there were more than 3000 Indian soldiers, mostly sikhs as usual as Hindus don't face bullets easily. Our losses we're around 700

Lol.
Your army can start a war without your PM permission but they need his permission to stop the war.
Hypocrisy at the best.
The truth is Kargil was a huge failure for pakistan on all fronts.

 

[Jackdaws]

What makes you think in those last years we did forget 1971 and we weren't having animosity towards Bharat?

That was indeed stupid Move.

I am talking about us, not you. Those who were born in the 1980s onwards in India didn't carry the same baggage of partition and wars with Pakistan. I even remember in school, when India was out of the 1992 world cup most kids supported Pakistan because they were Asians against British in the finals. Fat chance that's going to happen now.
Kargil was also the first televised war with embedded reporters. It really hit home and an entire generation of Indians who were indifferent now saw Pak as an enemy. It's only gotten worse with the arrival of social media and the North Korean kind of shrill news anchors who add fuel to the fire for their TRPs.

 

[The BrOkEn HeArT]

I agree with you but we did our duck shooting to the fullest, there were more than 3000 Indian soldiers, mostly sikhs as usual as Hindus don't face bullets easily. Our losses we're around 700

Wow.. you know numbers.
Did you count those bodies too who left behind??

 

[Maarkhoor]

Lol.
Your army can start a war without your PM permission but they need his permission to stop the war.
Hypocrisy at the best.
The truth is Kargil was a huge failure for pakistan on all fronts.

Lols read Barkha Dutt's book or Your own army Gernail comments about Kargil...

 

[Aasimkhan]

Wow.. you know numbers.
Did you count those bodies too who left behind??

I counted my bullets, didn't I? I am an eye witness. First hand account is the most reliable and authentic one

Lols read Barkha Dutt's book or Your own army Gernail comments about Kargil...

Indian leadership was equally miserable, most of the Sikh soldiers were made to drink heavily before starting the assault, many died wave after wave, we shot and killed till the ammo lasted, hills were lettered with dead Indian bodies. What a waste

 

[Indus Pakistan]

As for Kargil operation as I was there I can say a brilliant plan poorly executed. General Mahmud, commander FCNA and commnader 80 brigade deserved court court martials but all got promoted and enjoying their lives

True. But first to face such a court of enquiry should be Musharaf. Consider this -

In modern warfare making sure all arms of the military work together to gain benefits of synergy is basic abc.
Air power is vital. Why is that PAF was not even consulted?
The possibility of Kargil turning into a full scale war on all fronts was possibility as we learnt from 1965.
Why was Pakistan Navy not consulted?

Those are grounds enough to face trial for negligence of the highest order. I won't even go into crossing the LOC without consulting PM. Making Pak look like a banana republic. That is why our detractors make fun of us which eats into our standing in the world community leaving us only rock solid allies standing by us - even then we test them.

 

[newb3e]

another day another Pakistani writing against Armed forced and baboons jumping with joy!

 

[Jackdaws]

another day another Pakistani writing against Armed forced and baboons jumping with joy!

A malaise which affects both Indians and Pakistanis is that if someone criticizes the leadership / decisions of the Armed forces, they are dubbed as anti-national. Why?

Questioning the officers of the Armed Forces is not the same as questioning the Institution. I would like to know about India's fiasco in China and its IPKF excesses in Lanka.

At the end of the day, the country is for the people. They have every right to ask questions to any Institution.

 

[The BrOkEn HeArT]

Lols read Barkha Dutt's book or Your own army Gernail comments about Kargil...

Read your own PM comments first.
Barkha Dutt ?? Who is she?? Lol

 

[Meengla]

Stupid move especially in light of Lahore bus diplomacy of Vajpayee. It had been almost 30 years since 1971 and a newer generation didn't have the same animosity toward Pakistan. Kargil changed that.

Yes, it was a stupid move by Pakistani army--but almost exclusively it was a General Musharraf's personal operation. He's the most anti-India leader in Pakistan since Z.A. Bhutto.

I think the accounts of events as given in the OP sound factual. Even Musharraf is seen to have said that he owned that operation as a revenge against 1971 and as revenge against India grabbing parts of Siachen. He's also saying that the Vajpayee-Nawaz meeting fell short of his expectations about Kashmir.

So, yes, this was almost exclusively a Musharraf personal enterprise. I see why Indians hate his guts. But then, in Agra 2000, there was a chance of peace. But this time the hardliners from India ruined it. Let's admit it: We have stupid, myopic leadership in both India and Pakistan!!

Anyway, while the Kargil war was going on, I was in Canada and was cheering when I heard that an Indian aircraft had been shot down. I also remember American officials in Washington saying: "...We certainly believe Pakistan can bring back its troops from across the LoC" thus denying Pakistan's claim that only the Mujahideen were involved.

PS. One consolation from this OP article: There was rigorous debate inside Pakistani establishment about the Kargil operation. TRUST ME on this: Such debates are priceless for any country.

 

[Khurram2349]

I am not a big fan or Nawaz Sharif nor an Pak Army hater , instead I consider myself to be a patriot Pakistani who loves his military and their bravery ! I, however, think that the Kargil Operation was result of some kind of insecurity which somehow prevails in the back of mind of all military generals not in Pakistan but all over the world. That is , if their is peace what will become of us ! May be I am wrong but I feel that when Nawaz Sharif invited Indian Prime Minister Vajpayee to Lahore and talked about peace between the two countries , that was a very bold and positive move . Unfortunately he didnt consult top military leadership in this and they must have felt kind of left out in all fanfare of peace talk and felt insecure ! In that time there was also talk of reducing the military budget as consequence of peace between Pakistan and India . Had Nawaz Sharif consulted military also before this peace initiative and take them on board it would have been very wise but by getting 2/3 majority in the parliament started to think him as way above others forgetting that military still has big muscles .

The Kargil Operation must have been an attempt by General Musharraf and his few other cronies to sabotage this peace process. It was ill planned and risked and also resulted in loss of lives of our brave soldiers . To start this kind of operation without taking Air Force and Navy into confidence and also not considering the supply line for the soldiers once they take over the Indian posts and have to face Indian counter attack was very much un professional . Also an operation of such a big scale without consulting our tried and tested friend China was also a diplomatic blunder .

I consider General Musharaf and his handful of cronies to get first blame for this .

I , however, do not absolve Nawaz Sharif of this fiasco as well. Once the operation was planned and started he could have stopped it right away before it went further but he seemed not to really fathom the dangers of this and may have thought of becoming a hero in case operation is succeeded . This shows his lack of depth and vision in strategic issues . He need to share the blame of this fiasco as well as after all he was briefed as well.

In the end I do like to applaud the bravery of our soldiers who took part in the operation and not only took the Indian posts but dealt a very severe blow to Indian pride. Also I like mention specially the soldiers who took down two Indian MiG jets by their shoulder mounted SAMs and also all those brave men who lost their lives fighting against bigger odds and holding their positions without any supply line . I am sure if the war was not stopped and orders were not given for their withdrawl they would have never given the posts they took without giving their lives.

Pakistan military top leadership need to re analyse the whole Kargil Operation with an open mind. See where we went wrong and where we excelled . I consider Kargil as a stale mate just as Siachen skirmish as well. It was neither a victory for Pakistan or India ! Indians got big bloody nose as their Generals also accept . And we all know their was shortage of coffins for their soldiers because of their big causalities.

Pakistan military leadership need to realise that their soldier is their biggest weapon. They are men and women made of unique breed and no one in the world can match them in bravery and resolution. We need to protect them and not to throw them in irresponsible and unplanned missions just for the sake of either personal pride or vendettas.

I am sure in future Pakistan military will fight the 4th or 5th Generation war with India or any other enemy with coordinated efforts along with civilian leadership as well as our strategic partners .

Long live Pakistan !

 

[jamal18]

With Kargil, we learn what we ought to have learnt after 1965; that the policy of freeing Kashmir through limited war has come to an end. No Indian government can surrender Kashmir no matter how succesful a Pakistani limited offensive is, as long as it still has the option of a total war which it will win.

The only option left on the table for Pakistan is a succesful full-scale war.