The Maharaja’s residence

[Gandhi G in da house]

Actually all the Muslim armies came here to do was rape and pillage as India was quite rich at the time.

All that the Ghauris, Taimurs and all did was loot the country, rape the women, convert lakhs to Islam by force and left. They were truly barbarians of the first order.

The only reason they are celebrated as heroes in Pakistan is because Pakistan is as a nation confused over its own identity. Almost all the Pakistani's are converted Hindus. As such they cannot take pride in their own non Islamic past, and have had to resort to making the barbarians as their heroes because the barbarians were able to defeat the local kings and queens.And frankly, since they cannot have non Muslims as role models -fed since childhood with religious bigotry and extremism against any non muslim, Pakistani's cannot respect people of other religions and belief's, fed in the barbaric arabian tribal mentality.

So what option then is left apart from Afghan barbarians.

That said, this is also one of the reasons why Pakistani's have an Arab fetish, why many imagine that they are descendants of arabs, not the converted Hindus.

I don't understand where this whole invented theory of Arab ancestry comes from. The two major muslim empires in India have been the Delhi Sultanate who were basically Afghans and the Mughal empire who were Uzbeks. Even if you include the the very brief and small muslim empires like Durrani and Ghaznavid empire , they were also Afghans. . One can still understand that some Pakistanis may claim Afghan or Uzbek ancestry but from where did Arab ancestry come from ?

Arabs ruled a very small part of then India now Pakistan( Sindh and Bahawalpur) that too for a very brief period (only a few decades).

 

[Azazel]

Kid its funny yr telling me this who dont know that is he a muslim or hindu or in b/w.......

This is what we believe in and these were the Muslim armies n being a Muslim was enough at that time. There was no Arab or something talk back then.

There is a main rule when u read history that When ever u read history u understand it with the scenarios of that time and consider ground realities of that time itself!!!!

For me being just a Hindu or Muslim is pointless,What's more important is to be a good Human being.Your post nothing to do with the ground realities of the time,You just wanna nurse your Muslim identity above your ethnicity.This is exactly the identity crisis and that's exactly you hero worship foreigners rather than a sun of the soil.

 

[Azazel]

Dude, I agree with the fact that Ranjit Singh was a son of Punjab and " P " in Pakistan means Punjab..and he is indeed considered a great leader by many Pakistanis. But at the same time the people he fought ( Afghans/Pushtuns) today are the second biggest ethnic group of Pakistan with a poppulation of 28 million...and their heroes are also respectible for us as Pakistanis, since Pakistan's KPK province used to be part of Afghanistan at that time...and its inhabitants were Afghans who fought Ranjit Singh.....Pakistan means Punjab, Afghania (old name of KPK), Kashmir, Sindh and baluchisTAN. So both the heroes of Punjab and Pukhtunkhwa have to be respected by us Pakistanis...this is a fact which Indian members here need to understand.

Hmm,Your post lies in stark contrast with that of @Umair Nawaz,I suppose its another one of those personal opinions as he said.

 

[MadDog]

Hmm,Your post lies in stark contrast with that of @Umair Nawaz,I suppose its another one of those personal opinions as he said.

My friend...don't judge whole of Pakistan based on the opinion of just one person...as Mohsin Hamid says in a book...Pakistan is religiously, ethnically and culturally diverse...Punjabi is spoken in Pakistan by people more than the entire population of France, Pushto by people who are more than population of Saudi arabia, Sindhi by more than poppulation of Australia, Saraeki by more than that of Netherlands, Urdu by more than that of Cuba and Balochi by more than that of Singapore....Religiously we have non muslims more than the entire poppulation of Toronto or Miami....We have more shias compared to any other country besides Iran...Even the Sunnis include followers of Barelvi, Deobandi and other schools.

So today's Pakistan is entirely different from the Pakistan of 90s there is difference of opinion among people and we have to respect that.....Today the Sikh Holy places especially Nankana Sahib have been given special status...an international university is being created in Guru Nanak's name...so please..don't judge Pakistan...in 47 India wasn't divided..Punjab was divided...had it been the initial plan...in which whole of Punjab was supposed to go to Pakistan ( since P in Pakistan means Punjab)...there would have been no killings and migrations from both sides...and the history would have been much better.

 

[EyelessInGaza]

Dude, I agree with the fact that Ranjit Singh was a son of Punjab and " P " in Pakistan means Punjab..and he is indeed considered a great leader by many Pakistanis. But at the same time the people he fought ( Afghans/Pushtuns) today are the second biggest ethnic group of Pakistan with a poppulation of 28 million...and their heroes are also respectible for us as Pakistanis, since Pakistan's KPK province used to be part of Afghanistan at that time...and its inhabitants were Afghans who fought Ranjit Singh.....Pakistan means Punjab, Afghania (old name of KPK), Kashmir, Sindh and baluchisTAN. So both the heroes of Punjab and Pukhtunkhwa have to be respected by us Pakistanis...this is a fact which Indian members here need to understand.

Thank you for a cogent, well thought out reply that one can appreciate and respect.

This is how good forumming should go- promoting more understanding and knowledge instead of religious/ ethnic/ nationalistic intolerance.

 

[MadDog]

Thank you for a cogent, well thought out reply that one can appreciate and respect.

This is how good forumming should go- promoting more understanding and knowledge instead of religious/ ethnic/ nationalistic intolerance.

My pleasure...anytime...the problem with the people in developing countries (especially this part of the world) is they can't argue properly...they involve emotions in everything..especially the religious emotions...due to which they go astray from the topic and end up focusing on an emotional argument rather than focusing on logic.

 

[MadDog]

What needs to be done is to make urgent changes in the education system, instead of starting history books with Arab invasions, history should be taught about MehrGhar civilization of Baluchistan, the Indus Valley Civilization, The Gandhara civilization of Norther Punjab and KPK...this is the real identity of Pakistan....once this is done..then our future generations can think with logic...but if we start teaching them always about aggression...when they grow up they would look at other nations as being inferior and will get attracted to aggression and I hope if Imran Khan gets elected he will bring these changes in the education system.

 

[Manas]

However to assert that it was JUST force that converted hunderends of thousands of people to Islam would be far from reality.

But the converts didn't rule . They still don't rule pakistn . They are the aam Abduls of pakistan .



Those who ruled pakistan in past were the invaders and off springs of the invaders. And they still crow about the their Arab, afghan or central asian identity.

The oppressed part of society is always looking for a change.
Hindu caste system, and selective religious / aristocratic elite provided enough detested populance which converted to Islam.

before the islamic conquest , punjab ,sindh and Afghanistan were actually practicing casteless Buddism in a big way .while today Buddism wiped out from these regions . So to say hindu caste system was primary reason is an faint excuse why those those Rajputs, Jats ,Gujjars and other castes converted to Islam while similar numbers or more , of brave Rajputs, Jats ,Gujjars and other castes still practice hinduism or have evolved to Sikhism in indian punjan,Himachal , Rajastan .

 

[Kashmiri Nationalist]

There is nothing honourable in Ranjit Singh or his successors.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

There is nothing honourable in Ranjit Singh or his successors.

He and his successors were far more honourable than the foreign invaders like Ghaznavi and Timur that you and your ancestors idolise.

 

[KS]

You are right. And it was the sufis who made a far bigger impact in spread of islam.
Hinduism too presented perfect opportunity...a highly oppressive caste system begets no loyalties.


My post was only limited to the afghan invaders and their motives and actions.

That is an untenable position.

If caste system was the reason then pray tell me why many of the converts were kshatriyas or landed-shudras like Jatts.. ?

The role of sufis is alos over-exaggerated..the sufis did not act autonomously..they mostly travelled in the caravans of the invaders itself..kind of medieval good cop..bad cop..

I don't understand where this whole invented theory of Arab ancestry comes from. The two major muslim empires in India have been the Delhi Sultanate who were basically Afghans and the Mughal empire who were Uzbeks. Even if you include the the very brief and small muslim empires like Durrani and Ghaznavid empire , they were also Afghans. . One can still understand that some Pakistanis may claim Afghan or Uzbek ancestry but from where did Arab ancestry come from ?

Arabs ruled a very small part of then India now Pakistan( Sindh and Bahawalpur) that too for a very brief period (only a few decades).

Arabs are basically the chosen people..kinda like the Israelis for evangelist christians..

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

That is an untenable position.

If caste system was the reason then pray tell me why many of the converts were kshatriyas or landed-shudras like Jatts.. ?

The role of sufis is alos over-exaggerated..the sufis did not act autonomously..they mostly travelled in the caravans of the invaders itself..kind of medieval good cop..bad cop..



Arabs are basically the chosen people..kinda like the Israelis for evangelist christians..

Hmm... I get what you are trying to say but it would be nicer if you could elaborate a little on your point.

 

[notsuperstitious]

So how many converts are the sufis getting these days through their soulful renditions???

Anyone?

 

[Sinnerman108]

That is an untenable position.

If caste system was the reason then pray tell me why many of the converts were kshatriyas or landed-shudras like Jatts.. ?

The role of sufis is alos over-exaggerated..the sufis did not act autonomously..they mostly travelled in the caravans of the invaders itself..kind of medieval good cop..bad cop..



Arabs are basically the chosen people..kinda like the Israelis for evangelist christians..

Last commen first:

The Arab ancestory story was conjured up by the locals, to conpensate centuries of oppression. @nick_indian Read my previous post to understand why that may have happened.

@KS
Let me give an example.
In the subcontinent there are many, too many SYED families.
Syed means the same as Shareef in Arabic; people who draw their lineage from the prophet's family.

amusingly, there are more syeds in the subcontinent than the rest of the world added together;
they don't even look anything like Palestenians.

Similarly, there are several people who name themselves "Farooqi" & "Siddiqui" & "Chisti" etc etc etc,

Why do you think that happens if these converts were of repectable blood lines prior to becoming muslims ?

 

[kingkobra]

These so called son of soils were hindus n Siks and heros of yr country not ours.

This article is Salman Rashid's personal opinion.

BTW the Muslim Armies had came here to save the people Barbarism and killing ,loot and rape from their non Muslim Maharajas not the other way around.
That is why we the people who r the natives of this land celebrate them as Heroes, the Ghauris, Taimurs, Ghazanavis, Abdalis etc etc r the Greats no doubt.

Perfect example why Pakistan as a country will never stop inevitable destruction as it's own countrymen are so confused about their identity, their past, their ancestors that in one thread they will claim IVC as their own and in one thread they will attach themselves to barbarians who looted, raped and rain hell on their/our real ancestors...