The lasting lesson of 1962

[Martian2]

maybe we failed to invite usa in 1962 but look around you now. USA is literaly creating a block around you and is worried about your rise so today is different from yesterday. We will not use nuke first but a war with India cannot be possible as being nuclear power both face the risk of MAD.

and for repitition we are more than pleased to teach you this time

Are you aware that China has 294 megatons of thermonuclear firepower and India only has 1 megaton of total atomic firepower?

----------

Rankings of world nuclear (thermonuclear/hydrogen P-5 and atomic/fission) powers

Stunning, Frightening, Explosive and Destructive Power: Detonation of an 11-megaton Thermonuclear Bomb, March 26, 1954
Operation Castle, ROMEO Event
Bikini Atoll, Republic of the Marshall Islands

Rankings of world P-5 (i.e. Five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council) thermonuclear powers by megatons of firepower:

1. Russia - 1,273 megatons

2. United States - 570 megatons

3. China - 294 megatons (China has over half the nuclear firepower of the United States)

4. France - 55 megatons

5. Britain - 16 megatons

Humorous fact: A single Chinese DF-3A/CSS-2 IRBM or DF-4/CSS-3 ICBM with a 3.3 megaton warhead has over three times the destructive firepower in the entire Indian nuclear arsenal. In general, a thermonuclear warhead is roughly 100 times more powerful than an equivalent atomic warhead.

References:

Russia: NTI: Russia - Nuclear Disarmament
United States: NTI: United States - Nuclear Disarmament
China: NTI: China - Nuclear Disarmament
France: NTI: France - Nuclear Disarmament
Britain: NTI: United Kingdom - Nuclear Disarmament

----------

Rankings of atomic/fission bomb powers:

6. Israel: 1500-4000 kt (or 1.5 to 4 megatons)

7. India: 800 Kt ~ 1000 Kt. (or 0.8 to 1 megaton)

8. Pakistan: 600 kt - 1000 kt (or 0.6 to 1 megaton)

[note: 1,000 kilotons equal only 1 megaton]

References:

Israel: NTI: Israel - Nuclear Disarmament
India: NTI: India - Nuclear Disarmament
Pakistan: NTI: Pakistan - Nuclear Disarmament

----------

China has an estimated 294 megatons of thermonuclear deterrence

Rankings of world thermonuclear powers by megatons of firepower:

1. Russia - 1,273 megatons

2. United States - 570 megatons

3. China - 294 megatons (China has over half the nuclear firepower of the United States)

4. France - 55 megatons

5. Britain - 16 megatons

References:

Russia: http://www.nti.org/db/disarmament/country_russia.html
United States: http://www.nti.org/db/disarmament/country_usa.html
China: http://www.nti.org/db/disarmament/country_china.html
France: http://www.nti.org/db/disarmament/country_france.html
Britain: http://www.nti.org/db/disarmament/country_uk.html

----------

China's "possible warhead assembly and production facilities" (source: NTI)

http://www.nti.org/db/disarmament/country_china.html

People's Republic of China (PRC)
NPT Nuclear Weapon State

1. Arsenal Size:

Most opaque of the nuclear weapons state; limited open source information.
Operational strategic warheads: ~176 (Warheads in stockpile: 240)[1]

2. Key Delivery Systems:[2,3,4,5]

* Land-based missiles: Approximately 120.(ICBM: DF-4, DF-5A DF-31, DF-31A; MRBM: DF-3A, DF-21)
* Aircraft: 20 (Hong-6)
* SLBM: 1 Xia-class sub carrying12 JL-1s, never fully deployed; 2 Jin-class subs deployed, 1 under development can each carry 12 JL-2; however the JL-2s have not yet been deployed
* Cruise missiles: DH-10 (nuclear capable) 50-250 deployed
* No credible evidence to confirm that non-strategic weapons still remain in operational force

3. Estimated Destructive Power: 294[6]

4. Military Fissile Material Stockpile: (estimates)

Plutonium: 4 mt (+/- 20 %)[7]
HEU: 20 mt [8]

5. Disarmament and Commitments to Reduce Arsenal Size:

Legal obligation to pursue global disarmament under Article VI of the NPT[9]

Future Commitments:

In support of verifiable FMCT negotiation. The treaty should not cover existing stockpiles[10]

6. Nuclear Weapons Policies

1. Nuclear testing:

* Observed nuclear testing moratorium since July 1996.[12]
* Signed but not ratified CTBT[13]

2. Use of nuclear weapons:

* Adopted no-first use policy[14,15]


* Negative Security Assurances to NWFZ treaty members:

Committed not to use nuclear weapons against members of:
Tlatelolco, Rarotonga, and Pelindaba. Has not signed Bangkok, but reiterates its support.[16]


* Acknowledged the commitments of the NWS to negative security assurances in UN Security Council Resolution 984 (1995).[17]
* Expressed its support for legally binding unconditional negative security assurances.[18]

Sources:
[1] Robert S. Norris and Hans M. Kristensen, "Chinese Nuclear Forces, 2008," Nuclear Notebook, Natural Resources Defense Council, Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, July/August 2008, pp 42-45, http://thebulletin.metapress.com.
[2] Robert S. Norris and Hans M. Kristensen, "Chinese Nuclear Forces, 2008," Nuclear Notebook, Natural Resources Defense Council, Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, July/August 2008, pp 42-45, http://thebulletin.metapress.com.
[3] Ballistic and Cruise Missile Threat, National Air Space Intelligence Center, April 2009, www.fas.org.
[4] Military Power of the People's Republic of China 2008, US Department of Defense, www.defense.gov.
[5] Chinese Nuclear Forces, Strategic Security Blog, Federation of American Scientists, www.fas.org.
[6] Eliminating Nuclear Threats, ICNND Report, www.icnnd.org.
[7] International Panel on Fissile Materials, Global Fissile Material Report 2009, www.fissilematerials.org.
[8] International Panel on Fissile Materials, Global Fissile Material Report 2009, www.fissilematerials.org.
[9] Inventory of International Nonproliferation Organizations & Regimes, www.nti.org.
[10] Statement by Ambassador Jingye Cheng to the Conference on Disarmament, Geneva, 17 May 2006, www.reachingcriticalwill.org.
[11] Military Power of the People's Republic of China 2008, US Department of Defense, www.defense.gov.
[12] CTBTO website, Nuclear Testing page, www.ctbto.org.
[13] Inventory of International Nonproliferation Organizations & Regimes, www.nti.org.
[14] Working Paper Submitted by China to the 2010 NPT Review Conference, 6 May 2010, www.reachingcriticalwill.org.
[15] Statement by the Chinese Delegation on the Issue of Security Assurances at the Third Session of the Preparatory committee for the 2010 NPT Review Conference, 7 May 2009, www.reachingcriticalwill.org.
[16] NTI Nuclear Weapon Free Zone Tutorial Protocol Chart, www.nti.org.
[17] NTI Nuclear Weapon Free Zone Tutorial, Chapter 3, Security Assurances, www.nti.org.
[18] Working Paper Submitted by China to the 2010 NPT Review Conference, 6 May 2010, www.reachingcriticalwill.org.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

maybe we failed to invite usa in 1962 but look around you now. USA is literaly creating a block around you and is worried about your rise so today is different from yesterday. We will not use nuke first but a war with India cannot be possible as being nuclear power both face the risk of MAD.

and for repitition we are more than pleased to teach you this time

Nehru pleaded for US help against China in 1962 - Times Of India

In 1962 -

- We had recently fought a massive war against the USA and all of her allies combined (Korean War).
- We had just come out of the worst famine in Chinese history, the Great Leap Forward from 1958-1961.
- We had just become alienated from the USSR due to the Sino-Soviet split. Both of the superpowers were against us.

Even though we were at possibly the weakest point in our history since the founding of the PRC, neither the USA or the USSR came to help India in 1962. Even though India repeatedly begged them to do so.

In 2012 -

- We are the second largest economy in the world, and have the second largest military budget.
- The USA and China have the biggest bilateral economic relationship in the world.
- We have a Permanent seat in the UN Security Council and are widely recognized as a great power.

So... if the USA and USSR did not help you in 1962 when China was weak and collapsing, why on Earth would anyone come and help you now?

 

[tjpf]

@martian show that statistics when birds will be flying from both sides
@Hu and CD this ain't 62 and if you still live in 62 then you doing us a big favour.
we are waiting for you to teach us a lesson but don't forget to bring those tampons coz you will need them.
and HU those country can kick your *** anytime. Look what vietnam did to you imagine all of them togethet thundering into your throat

 

[Shinigami]

But what did the Indian Naval Chief have to say?

He said that India could not hope to match China in terms of military force.

even pakistanis can figure out why he said that, and you cannot? i guess you need to live in a democracy to figure out that the military must "scare" the civilians into giving them funds. and fortunately for the indian military brass, the civilian government does not know squat about the military.

Anybody who is aware of the basics of warfare can compare the indian navy, an experienced force with modern warships and supersonic cruise missiles in every one of them, with the PLAN who have a lot of less modern ships with no war experiance.

I will however acknowledge the PLAN's formidable submarine fleet.

 

[Martian2]

maybe we failed to invite usa in 1962 but look around you now. USA is literaly creating a block around you and is worried about your rise so today is different from yesterday. We will not use nuke first but a war with India cannot be possible as being nuclear power both face the risk of MAD.

and for repitition we are more than pleased to teach you this time

I just want to make sure that you understand China's 1967 thermonuclear test was three times more powerful than India's current combined atomic weapons. You can't have MAD when China's thermonuclear arsenal is 294 times more powerful than your puny one megaton.

----------

1967: THE FIRST CHINESE HYDROGEN BOMB exploded with 3.3 megatons of destructive power

No thread on China's nuclear weapons would be complete without the history-setting first thermonuclear explosion.

"On June 17 1967, China revealed its true military power.

At 00:19, a Chinese H-6 bomber dropped the first Chinese hydrogen bomb. It exploded with a force of 3.3 megatons. It marked the date when China entered the thermonuclear era."

3.3-MEGATON HYDROGEN BOMB - YouTube

 

[tjpf]

Nehru pleaded for US help against China in 1962 - Times Of India

In 1962 -

- We had recently fought a massive war against the USA and all of her allies combined (Korean War).
- We had just come out of the worst famine in Chinese history, the Great Leap Forward from 1958-1961.
- We had just become alienated from the USSR due to the Sino-Soviet split. Both of the superpowers were against us.

Even though we were at possibly the weakest point in our history since the founding of the PRC, neither the USA or the USSR came to help India in 1962. Even though India repeatedly begged them to do so.

In 2012 -

- We are the second largest economy in the world, and have the second largest military budget.
- The USA and China have the biggest bilateral economic relationship in the world.
- We have a Permanent seat in the UN Security Council and are widely recognized as a great power.

So... if the USA and USSR did not help you in 1962 when China was weak and collapsing, why on Earth would anyone come and help you now?

not only you are naive but also you are blind to what is happening around you. Good keep going coz that will be just what will bring you down

 

[conworldus]

Somehow Indian members here think that other countries will support India's imperialism against China... Incredible.

Deep down Indians feel superior than Chinese. However, every fact is pointing at the opposite direction and this greatly frustrates Indians.

 

[tjpf]

I just want to make sure that you understand China's 1967 thermonuclear test was three times more powerful than India's current combined atomic weapons. You can't have MAD when China's thermonuclear arsenal is 294 times more powerful than your puny 1 megaton.

1967: THE FIRST CHINESE HYDROGEN BOMB exploded with 3.3 megatons of destructive power

No thread on China's nuclear weapons would be complete without the history-setting first thermonuclear explosion.

"On June 17 1967, China revealed its true military power.

At 00:19, a Chinese H-6 bomber dropped the first Chinese hydrogen bomb. It exploded with a force of 3.3 megatons. It marked the date when China entered the thermonuclear era."

3.3-MEGATON HYDROGEN BOMB - YouTube

so you saying when India launches her bird no chinese goona die!
so what your bomb is louder or bigger, ours will do the job. If not the bomb the nuclear fall out will

 

[Martian2]

so you saying when India launches her bird no chinese goona die!
so what your bomb is louder or bigger, ours will do the job. If not the bomb the nuclear fall out will

You do know that China has successfully tested its mid-course ground-based interceptor (GBI), right? You also know that India doesn't have GBI technology, right?

China can shoot down your missiles with tiny warheads. In contrast, India can't stop Chinese 3-megaton missiles heading for major Indian cities, like New Delhi and Mumbai.

Like I said before, there is no MAD. You lack the technology and capability.

----------

China's mid-course GBI is running neck-and-neck with U.S. GBI

China: Missile defense system test successful - USATODAY.com

"China: Missile defense system test successful
Posted 1/11/2010 8:08 PM

BEIJING (AP) — China announced that its military intercepted a missile in mid-flight Monday in a test of new technology that comes amid heightened tensions over Taiwan and increased willingness by the Asian giant to show off its advanced military capabilities.

The official Xinhua News Agency reported late Monday that "ground-based midcourse missile interception technology" was tested within Chinese territory.

"The test has achieved the expected objective," the three-sentence report said. "The test is defensive in nature and is not targeted at any country."

Monday's report follows repeated complaints in recent days by Beijing over the sale by the U.S. of weaponry to Taiwan, including PAC-3 air defense missiles. These sales are driven by threats from China to use force to bring the island under its control, backed up by an estimated 1,300 Chinese ballistic missiles positioned along the Taiwan Strait.

Communist-ruled China split with Taiwan amid civil war in 1949 and continues to regard the self-governing democracy as part of its territory. Beijing has warned of a disruption in ties with Washington if the sale goes ahead, but has not said what specific actions it would take.

In Washington, the U.S. Defense Department said it had no notice before the Chinese test but that the United States does not consider it related to U.S. arms sales to Taiwan.

"We did not receive prior notification of the launch," Maj. Maureen Schumann, a Pentagon spokeswoman, said. "We detected two geographically separated missile launch events with an exo-atmospheric collision also being observed by space-based sensors. We are requesting information from China regarding the purpose for conducting this interception as well as China's intentions and plans to pursue future types of intercepts."

China's military is in the middle of a major technology upgrade, spurred on by double-digit annual percentage increases in defense spending. Missile technology is considered one of the People's Liberation Army's particular strengths, allowing it to narrow the gap with the U.S. and other militaries that wield stronger conventional forces.

Xinhua did not further identify the system tested, although China is believed to be pursuing a number of programs developed from anti-aircraft systems aimed at shooting down stealth aircraft and downing or disabling cruise missiles and precision-guided weapons.

Such programs are shrouded in secrecy, but military analysts say China appears to have augmented its air defenses with homemade technologies adapted from Russian and other foreign weaponry. China purchased a large number of Russian surface-to-air missiles during the 1990s and has since pressed ahead with its own HQ-9 interceptor, along with a more advanced missile system with an extended range.

Foreign media reports in 2006 said Beijing had tested a surface-to-air missile in the country's remote northwest with capabilities similar to the American Patriot interceptor system. According to South Korea's Dong-A Ilbo newspaper, the test involved the detection and downing of both a reconnaissance drone and an incoming ballistic missile by an interceptor, adding that it appeared to mark the official launch of China's indigenous interceptor unit.

"There is an obvious concern in Beijing that they need an effective anti-ballistic missile defense in some form," said Hans Kristensen, an expert on the Chinese military with the Federation of American Scientists.

Staging a successful test "shows that their technology is maturing," Kristensen said.

The 2009 Pentagon report on China's military says the air force received eight battalions of upgraded Russian SA-20 PMU-2 surface-to-air missiles since 2006, with another eight on order. The missiles have a range of 125 miles (200 kilometers) and reportedly provide limited ballistic and cruise missile defense capabilities.

Such interceptor missiles are believed to be deployed near major cities and strategic sites such as the massive Three Gorges Dam, but they could also be used to protect China's own ballistic missile batteries that would themselves become targets in any regional conflict.

Such interceptors would be of relatively little use against U.S. cruise missiles, although they could be effective against ballistic missiles deployed by Russia or India, China's massive neighbor to the south with which it has a growing military rivalry and lingering territorial disputes.

Monday's report continues a growing trend of greater transparency over China's new military technologies typified by last year's striking Oct. 1 military parade marking the 60th anniversary of the founding of the communist state. Large numbers of missiles were displayed in the show, including ICBMs, together with tanks, amphibious craft and latest-generation jet fighters.

China's anti-ship cruise and ballistic missiles — capable of striking U.S. Navy aircraft carrier battle groups and bases in the Pacific — have drawn the most attention from analysts in recent months.

Military displays and announcements of successful tests help build public pride in the military's rising capabilities and bolster support for rising defense spending that increased by almost 15% last year to $71 billion. The figure is thought by many analysts to represent only a portion of total defense spending, although it still amounts to only a fraction of the U.S. military budget.

Meanwhile, showing off such capabilities also helps put adversaries on notice, Kristensen said.

"It's the new Chinese way to signal that they are now able to do these things," he said."

----------

0 for 2. U.S. long-range missile defense test fails again.

America is encountering serious setbacks in its missile defense program. Will this provide China with an opportunity to catch the Americans? Only time will tell. The race is on.

Long-range missile defense test fails - CNN.com

"Long-range missile defense test fails
By the CNN Wire Staff
December 15, 2010 9:49 p.m. EST

An interceptor missile was launched from Vandenberg Air Force Base, California, on Wednesday. The test failed.

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

* Missile Defense Agency is investigating how the "kill vehicle" missed the target

* A similar test in January failed because of a problem with sea-based radar

* Nearly half of the systems tests have failed

(CNN) -- A test of the United States' only long-range missile defense system failed Wednesday -- the second failure this year in two tries.

The Pentagon's Missile Defense Agency said both the intermediate-range ballistic missile target and the long-range interceptor missile launched successfully, radar and sensors worked properly and the "kill vehicle" deployed. But the "kill vehicle" didn't hit the target.

"Program officials will conduct an extensive investigation to determine the cause of the failure to intercept the target," the agency said. "The next flight test will be determined after identification of the cause of the failure."

The last test, in January, failed because of a problem with the sea-based X-band radar, the agency said.

The X-band radar sits atop a modified floating oil platform and provides information about incoming missiles so military officials can launch a response.

In both Wednesday's test and the test launched earlier this year, the target missile launched from Kwajalein Atoll in the Republic of the Marshall Islands, and the interceptor launched from Vandenberg Air Force Base, California.

The $100 billion missile shield program has had numerous problems. In December 2008, an interceptor launched from Vandenburg "killed" a target launched from Kodiak, Alaska. But the test wasn't able to determine a key aspect -- whether the interceptor could tell the difference between a decoy and a real missile -- because the decoy failed to launch.

Riki Ellison, chairman and founder of the Missile Defense Advocacy Alliance, a nonpartisan organization that advocates for the deployment of missile defense systems, said the failure "is a tremendous setback," noting three major test failures in the past two years.

Ellison said many of the country's interceptors are nearly identical to the one that failed Wednesday, and he questioned the military's confidence in the ground-based system deployed in Alaska and California.

So far, the Defense Department has deemed eight of the program's 15 tests successful."

 

[Sasquatch]

@martian show that statistics when birds will be flying from both sides
@Hu and CD this ain't 62 and if you still live in 62 then you doing us a big favour.
we are waiting for you to teach us a lesson but don't forget to bring those tampons coz you will need them.
and HU those country can kick your *** anytime. Look what vietnam did to you imagine all of them togethet thundering into your throat

Australia ? Philippines ? Vietnam ? if we went to war right now ? Vietnam adventure was similiar to your Sri Lankan Adventure we were fighting a Ghost war and our southern forces were lacking, we managed to kill more viets and destroy their country, our victory against the Viets on Xinsha islands and other Islands ? Philippines has been fighting an insurgency for the last 30 years yet they still can't beat the insurgents, Insurgents are still killing Philippinos and their soldiers, and Australia can't match us.

---------- Post added at 01:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:43 PM ----------

not only you are naive but also you are blind to what is happening around you. Good keep going coz that will be just what will bring you down

Yes USA will save you if we go to war

 

[tjpf]

You do know that China has successfully tested its mid-course ground-based interceptor (GBI), right? You also know that India doesn't have GBI technology, right?

China can shoot down your missiles with tiny warheads. In contrast, India can't stop Chinese 3-megaton missiles heading for major Indian cities, like New Delhi and Mumbai.

is it one hundred percent effective!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so we coming with our own interceptors but at the end of the day if a nuclear war takes place good luck with yours

---------- Post added at 10:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 AM ----------

Australia ? Philippines ? Vietnam ? if we went to war right now ? Vietnam adventure was similiar to your Sri Lankan Adventure we were fighting a Ghost war and our southern forces were lacking, we managed to kill more viets and destroy their country, our victory against the Viets on Xinsha islands and other Islands ? Philippines has been fighting an insurgency for the last 30 years yet they still can't beat the insurgents, Insurgents are still killing Philippinos and their soldiers, and Australia can't match us.

---------- Post added at 01:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:43 PM ----------



Yes USA will save you if we go to war

and yes china will teach us a lesson

 

[Martian2]

is it one hundred percent effective!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so we coming with our own interceptors but at the end of the day if a nuclear war takes place good luck with yours

---------- Post added at 10:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 AM ----------



and yes china will teach us a lesson

It takes one megaton to destroy a Chinese city. On the other hand, India would've lost over 200 cities.

You lose. Your civilization has just collapsed.

 

[Sasquatch]

is it one hundred percent effective!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so we coming with our own interceptors but at the end of the day if a nuclear war takes place good luck with yours

---------- Post added at 10:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 AM ----------



and yes china will teach us a lesson

I have said it before if India did not learn the lesson we will have to teach it to be perfected.

 

[IND151]

@ post 98, its not that you are not interested but you apre unable to do dat.if CCP tries to do dat it will provoke india to take the harsh steps like ban on chinese goods or stopping trade with china moghmmq and it wijl hurt china more dan india as china has surplus . one wonders dat why hasnt china has AP and is unable to learn from 1967? ./mdd gg mmpqnghghghrmnmm

 

[Shinigami]

Nehru pleaded for US help against China in 1962 - Times Of India

In 1962 -

- We had recently fought a massive war against the USA and all of her allies combined (Korean War).
- We had just come out of the worst famine in Chinese history, the Great Leap Forward from 1958-1961.
- We had just become alienated from the USSR due to the Sino-Soviet split. Both of the superpowers were against us.

Even though we were at possibly the weakest point in our history since the founding of the PRC, neither the USA or the USSR came to help India in 1962. Even though India repeatedly begged them to do so.

In 2012 -

- We are the second largest economy in the world, and have the second largest military budget.
- The USA and China have the biggest bilateral economic relationship in the world.
- We have a Permanent seat in the UN Security Council and are widely recognized as a great power.

So... if the USA and USSR did not help you in 1962 when China was weak and collapsing, why on Earth would anyone come and help you now?

1962

- we barely had a functioning army
- very few troops and most of them was on the pakistan border
- our army had no idea how to fight in the himalayas
- we had no air cover
- we had very little bunkers and infra on the chinese border
- poor strategic airlift capability
- poorly equipped troops with almost no ammo
- poorly clothed troops who frequently died of cold

2012
- Robust economy capable of supporting an all out lasting war
- large and well equipped(compared to 62) army
- vast number of troops on chinese border
- well versed in high altitude warfare
- several war games with china as the enemy have been played
- superb aircover with advanced su30MKI squadron of multirole fighter bombers
- strategic airlifters and advanced bases ensures strategic airlift capability