The lasting lesson of 1962

[Shinigami]

Somehow Indian members here think that other countries will support India's imperialism against China... Incredible.

Deep down Indians feel superior than Chinese. However, every fact is pointing at the opposite direction and this greatly frustrates Indians.

we only want to keep our land.

morover, we are the kind of people who believe that others are superior to us.

 

[Agni5000]

With one update statement to USA treasury database, entire imaginary dollars gone.

update amount=-2t where country= chini.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

With one update statement to USA treasury database, entire imaginary dollars gone.

update amount=-2t where country= chini.

LOL, that's not how the financial system works. If you default on debt, your credit rating crashes and you can no longer borrow the money that you need.

Out of our $3.2 trillion currency reserves, about $1 trillion of that is in US dollars.

So even if the value of the US dollar goes to zero (total collapse of the dollar), then our currency reserves will still be $2.2 trillion... still bigger than the entire Indian economy. And we would still have the largest currency reserves in the world by far.

 

[sweetgrape]

maybe we failed to invite usa in 1962 but look around you now. USA is literaly creating a block around you and is worried about your rise so today is different from yesterday. We will not use nuke first but a war with India cannot be possible as being nuclear power both face the risk of MAD.

and for repitition we are more than pleased to teach you this time

Hehe, but first, could you tell me how to teach us the lesson, using your mouth? If the war happened, I hope you can teach us some thing, don't le us teach you twice, do you know what a pity for us to fight with one enemy who make a mistake twice. And I don't find indian are good at war, you only have your mouth, nothing else.

 

[Agni5000]

LOL, that's not how the financial system works. If you default on debt, your credit rating crashes and you can no longer borrow the money that you need.

Out of our $3.2 trillion currency reserves, about $1 trillion of that is in US dollars.

So even if the value of the US dollar goes to zero (total collapse of the dollar), then our currency reserves will still be $2.2 trillion... still bigger than the entire Indian economy. And we would still have the largest currency reserves in the world by far.

If USA stops buying chinese junk for 2-3 months, then end of story. China will fall very hard.

 

[ares]

Are you aware that China has 294 megatons of thermonuclear firepower and India only has 1 megaton of total atomic firepower?

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Rankings of world nuclear (thermonuclear/hydrogen P-5 and atomic/fission) powers

Stunning, Frightening, Explosive and Destructive Power: Detonation of an 11-megaton Thermonuclear Bomb, March 26, 1954
Operation Castle, ROMEO Event
Bikini Atoll, Republic of the Marshall Islands

Rankings of world P-5 (i.e. Five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council) thermonuclear powers by megatons of firepower:

1. Russia - 1,273 megatons

2. United States - 570 megatons

3. China - 294 megatons (China has over half the nuclear firepower of the United States)

4. France - 55 megatons

5. Britain - 16 megatons

Humorous fact: A single Chinese DF-3A/CSS-2 IRBM or DF-4/CSS-3 ICBM with a 3.3 megaton warhead has over three times the destructive firepower in the entire Indian nuclear arsenal. In general, a thermonuclear warhead is roughly 100 times more powerful than an equivalent atomic warhead.

References:

Russia: NTI: Russia - Nuclear Disarmament
United States: NTI: United States - Nuclear Disarmament
China: NTI: China - Nuclear Disarmament
France: NTI: France - Nuclear Disarmament
Britain: NTI: United Kingdom - Nuclear Disarmament

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Rankings of atomic/fission bomb powers:

6. Israel: 1500-4000 kt (or 1.5 to 4 megatons)

7. India: 800 Kt ~ 1000 Kt. (or 0.8 to 1 megaton)

8. Pakistan: 600 kt - 1000 kt (or 0.6 to 1 megaton)

[note: 1,000 kilotons equal only 1 megaton]

References:

Israel: NTI: Israel - Nuclear Disarmament
India: NTI: India - Nuclear Disarmament
Pakistan: NTI: Pakistan - Nuclear Disarmament

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China has an estimated 294 megatons of thermonuclear deterrence

Rankings of world thermonuclear powers by megatons of firepower:

1. Russia - 1,273 megatons

2. United States - 570 megatons

3. China - 294 megatons (China has over half the nuclear firepower of the United States)

4. France - 55 megatons

5. Britain - 16 megatons

References:

Russia: http://www.nti.org/db/disarmament/country_russia.html
United States: http://www.nti.org/db/disarmament/country_usa.html
China: China | Country Profiles | NTI
France: http://www.nti.org/db/disarmament/country_france.html
Britain: United Kingdom | Country Profiles | NTI

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China's "possible warhead assembly and production facilities" (source: NTI)

China | Country Profiles | NTI

People's Republic of China (PRC)
NPT Nuclear Weapon State

1. Arsenal Size:

Most opaque of the nuclear weapons state; limited open source information.
Operational strategic warheads: ~176 (Warheads in stockpile: 240)[1]

2. Key Delivery Systems:[2,3,4,5]

* Land-based missiles: Approximately 120.(ICBM: DF-4, DF-5A DF-31, DF-31A; MRBM: DF-3A, DF-21)
* Aircraft: 20 (Hong-6)
* SLBM: 1 Xia-class sub carrying12 JL-1s, never fully deployed; 2 Jin-class subs deployed, 1 under development can each carry 12 JL-2; however the JL-2s have not yet been deployed
* Cruise missiles: DH-10 (nuclear capable) 50-250 deployed
* No credible evidence to confirm that non-strategic weapons still remain in operational force

3. Estimated Destructive Power: 294[6]

4. Military Fissile Material Stockpile: (estimates)

Plutonium: 4 mt (+/- 20 %)[7]
HEU: 20 mt [8]

5. Disarmament and Commitments to Reduce Arsenal Size:

Legal obligation to pursue global disarmament under Article VI of the NPT[9]

Future Commitments:

In support of verifiable FMCT negotiation. The treaty should not cover existing stockpiles[10]

6. Nuclear Weapons Policies

1. Nuclear testing:

* Observed nuclear testing moratorium since July 1996.[12]
* Signed but not ratified CTBT[13]

2. Use of nuclear weapons:

* Adopted no-first use policy[14,15]


* Negative Security Assurances to NWFZ treaty members:

Committed not to use nuclear weapons against members of:
Tlatelolco, Rarotonga, and Pelindaba. Has not signed Bangkok, but reiterates its support.[16]


* Acknowledged the commitments of the NWS to negative security assurances in UN Security Council Resolution 984 (1995).[17]
* Expressed its support for legally binding unconditional negative security assurances.[18]

Sources:
[1] Robert S. Norris and Hans M. Kristensen, "Chinese Nuclear Forces, 2008," Nuclear Notebook, Natural Resources Defense Council, Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, July/August 2008, pp 42-45, Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists.
[2] Robert S. Norris and Hans M. Kristensen, "Chinese Nuclear Forces, 2008," Nuclear Notebook, Natural Resources Defense Council, Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, July/August 2008, pp 42-45, Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists.
[3] Ballistic and Cruise Missile Threat, National Air Space Intelligence Center, April 2009, Federation of American Scientists.
[4] Military Power of the People's Republic of China 2008, US Department of Defense, The Official Home of the Department of Defense.
[5] Chinese Nuclear Forces, Strategic Security Blog, Federation of American Scientists, Federation of American Scientists.
[6] Eliminating Nuclear Threats, ICNND Report, Under Construction.
[7] International Panel on Fissile Materials, Global Fissile Material Report 2009, IPFM International Panel on Fissile Materials - Mission.
[8] International Panel on Fissile Materials, Global Fissile Material Report 2009, IPFM International Panel on Fissile Materials - Mission.
[9] Inventory of International Nonproliferation Organizations & Regimes, Nuclear Threat Initiative.
[10] Statement by Ambassador Jingye Cheng to the Conference on Disarmament, Geneva, 17 May 2006, Reaching Critical Will.
[11] Military Power of the People's Republic of China 2008, US Department of Defense, The Official Home of the Department of Defense.
[12] CTBTO website, Nuclear Testing page, Home: CTBTO Preparatory Commission.
[13] Inventory of International Nonproliferation Organizations & Regimes, Nuclear Threat Initiative.
[14] Working Paper Submitted by China to the 2010 NPT Review Conference, 6 May 2010, Reaching Critical Will.
[15] Statement by the Chinese Delegation on the Issue of Security Assurances at the Third Session of the Preparatory committee for the 2010 NPT Review Conference, 7 May 2009, Reaching Critical Will.
[16] NTI Nuclear Weapon Free Zone Tutorial Protocol Chart, Nuclear Threat Initiative.
[17] NTI Nuclear Weapon Free Zone Tutorial, Chapter 3, Security Assurances, Nuclear Threat Initiative.
[18] Working Paper Submitted by China to the 2010 NPT Review Conference, 6 May 2010, Reaching Critical Will.

Are you aware the atomic fire power you mentioned was an estimate from 2005 ..it is 2012 right now!!

Are you aware that a 200-250 kiloton warhead is enough to destroy an entire moderately sized city ..anything above it a waste of plutonium. The same plutonium which can be used to make multiple warheads with many times more combined destructive power.

Not to mention a 3 megaton warhead is so big and heavy that it can not be fitted in MIRV config or SRBM, Cruise missiles or even fighter bombers...leaving only ICBM or IRBMs for use(again a waste of resources since India and China are so close)

Huge megaton warheads are archaic, crude and thing of the past ..the world has moved on to miniaturization warheads ..with sub kiloton yields ..while you are boasting of 50 yr old megatons warheads.

 

[Ganga]

The only way forward is to be prepared .China knows very well that India is the only country that can be a thorn in her path to Asian domination.I don't think Chinese soldiers are better than Indian soldiers.But they got numbers.They can simply keep throwing men and machines into the battlefield.

 

[Agni5000]

Hehe, but first, could you tell me how to teach us the lesson, using your mouth? If the war happened, I hope you can teach us some thing, don't le us teach you twice, do you know what a pity for us to fight with one enemy who make a mistake twice. And I don't find indian are good at war, you only have your mouth, nothing else.

China backstabbed once in 62. We survived. Don't think we are dumb enough to be stabbed again,

 

[Jackdaws]

Calling 1962 a "war" is an exaggeration. It was more like a skirmish. Yes, China beat India black and blue but given China's own lack of military history and lack of success, they have grandiosely called it a "war". They enjoy being ruled and told what to do. Everyone who has read history knows that this skirmish very conveniently coincided with the Cuban Missile Crisis - so both the USA and USSR were obviously more keen to avoid nuclear war than to thwart a minor skirmish. Once that crisis ended, the USA under Kennedy almost immediately came to India's assistance and the Chinese responded by running back with their tail between their legs. To call it a military victory is as absurd as Hitler merely invading Alsace in France, occupying it for a week - then running back to Berlin and grandiosely claiming a military victory over France! But then, the Chinese definition of war and victory is different from that of the civilized world.

 

[Sasquatch]

China backstabbed once in 62. We survived. Don't think we are dumb enough to be stabbed again,

India backstabbed us in 1959 by hosting our largest separatist group, then again in 1962 with the Forward Policy. Nehru also provoked us and tried to take our land then when he was losing going to beg the USA for help.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

China backstabbed once in 62. We survived. Don't think we are dumb enough to be stabbed again,

Wrong, it was India who backstabbed us. In both 1959 and 1962.

Both of which happened BEFORE the Sino-Indian war.

EDIT: Hu Songshan beat me to it.

 

[Sasquatch]

Nehru was also a Cunning man he know that China had to Deal with the USSR and USA and we were very weak during that time,then tried to go for the kill and ending up getting his soldiers killed and pleading the USA for help.

 

[Jackdaws]

Wrong, it was India who backstabbed us. By hosting our largest separatist group in 1959, and implementing the Forward Policy against us in 1962.

Both of which happened BEFORE the Sino-Indian war.

Separatist group? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - you invaded a free nation and occupied it illegally. Read the 17 point agreement between Tibet and China and tell me if there is such an agreement between any other "province" of China? And it apparently even happened with forged Tibetan seals and Tibetan representatives were forced to sign this "agreement".

 

[Agni5000]

India backstabbed us in 1959 by hosting our largest separatist group, then again in 1962 with the Forward Policy. Nehru also provoked us and tried to take our land then when he was losing going to beg the USA for help.

We are not cruel people. We gave hosted many people who needs help.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Separatist group? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - you invaded a free nation and occupied it illegally. Read the 17 point agreement between Tibet and China and tell me if there is such an agreement between any other "province" of China? And it apparently even happened with forged Tibetan seals and Tibetan representatives were forced to sign this "agreement".

Except that not ONE single national government in the entire world recognizes Tibetan independence.

Including your own Indian government. Your government is supporting the Chinese position.