The largest World Bank loan for the health sector in India, $1 Billion Loan.

[jamahir]

PS : It's mostly for providing salaries, government acquisitions, infrastructure projects, providing subsidies among other things.

Mostly for this :

India was world's largest arms importer from 1990 to 2019: SIPRI report

India was world's largest arms importer from 1990 to 2019: SIPRI report According to the SIPRI report, Russia has been a significant contributor to India's defence needs. Russia exported 56 per cent of weapons to India, compared to 72 per cent in 2010-14. Publish Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2020 10:50 AM...

defence.pk

 

[Chhatrapati]

Mostly for this :

Don't make such rookie mistakes Jamahir. You know that's not the largest component of our budget.

 

[jamahir]

Don't make such rookie mistakes Jamahir. You know that's not the largest component of our budget.

Well, I know that some money goes towards pensions as well. My late father used to be in SBI bank. When he was alive he used to get 25,000 as pension. After his death we get something like 10,000. So I agree that pensions and central government salaries account for a good part of budget.

You mentioned infrastructure. Yes, building things like flyovers ( most are needless ), roads etc take money.

But about subsidies, come on, people continue to die of hunger, or are malnourished, and blind or with cancers, indebted, homeless etc. So no government spending here.

 

[Chhatrapati]

But about subsidies, come on, people continue to die of hunger, or are malnourished, and blind or with cancers, indebted, homeless etc. So no government spending here.

Yeah, that happens too. But any reforms would see the reaction you see in Delhi now. Forget Jamahiria, a small agri reform ruffled some turbaned feathers now blocking roads and holding the government to ransom.

India has one of the least homelessness, with just 0.15%. Any idea, how many houses were constructed by the government free of cost? India is quite a large country with a federal structure, and where 1.3 billion people live, there is only so much the government can do.

 

[jamahir]

India has one of the least homelessness, with just 0.15%.

From that Google search that translates to 1.77 million people from the 2011 census. Will be more now. Confusingly, that Google source for the above figure also gives this :

There are 18 million street children in India, the largest number of any country in the world, with 11 million being urban.

And these people are the ones without any kind of even semi-permanent shelter. There will be more people in slums. Just think of the incongruity of Mukesh Ambani's 27-storey "house" for a family of five and not far from that building will be so many living four or five people in two room jhuggis.

None of these people ( not Ambani ) deserve to live so squalidly.

Forget Jamahiria, a small agri reform ruffled some turbaned feathers now blocking roads and holding the government to ransom.

The protesting farmers are from other states too, including Bihar.

I will tell you what Ravish Kumar said in his 9 PM show on NDTV India called Prime Time. He said that an average Bihari farmer earns 3000 rupees per month and this is enough to live a sparse life in a village but not something more. And combined that with loan-taking from micro-finance institutions or local mahajans both of whom charge high interest and this combined with a traditionally extreme capitalist socio-economic culture, pushes the farmers to suicide.

Now even if the Bihari farmer's monthly income is generally doubled and goes to 8000 they will remain poor. So their protest against these "reforms" where purchase of their farm produce is left to the decisions of capitalist big companies. This is also the fear of the Punjabi farmers. The supposedly richer Punjab also sees farmer suicides.

India is quite a large country with a federal structure, and where 1.3 billion people live, there is only so much the government can do.

Yes, India is a large country population-wise but it can be self-sufficient in food production and obtaining raw materials ( cement, iron etc ) for constructing good-quality housing colonies.

Additionally, agriculture in India should become modernized and scientific, and this will be through Urban Farming and Vertical Farming, both managed through computerization. Neighborhood-level Urban Farming is being implemented in Venezuela in conjunction with neighborhood-level decentralized political and economic organization like how it was in Libya and how the AAP and Swaraj Abhiyan want in India.

About present farmers in India, most of them are in rural areas and they form a significant percentage of India's workforce ( 50+ percent I think ). What should happen is that the rural population of say 15 villages should be taken and given a new township that will have Vertical Farms at neighborhood-level and organized through collective farming and these townships should have all the amenities that cities like Poona, Bangalore etc have, with no tolerance for any previous village culture remaining. So if done across the country, not only will the food production increase drastically but the social atmosphere of the country will get better.

And this is my proposal for a new economic system where there will be no rich and poor ( economic classes ) which is one target of Communism.

 

[Chhatrapati]

From that Google search that translates to 1.77 million people from the 2011 census. Will be more now. Confusingly, that Google source for the above figure also gives this :

Both translates entirely different criteria. Those living in illegal slums are considered homeless, while the real homeless data that is of 1.77 million included only people living on footpaths or store front without taking into consideration shelters.

Just think of the incongruity of Mukesh Ambani's 27-storey "house" for a family of five and not far from that building will be so many living four or five people in two room jhuggis.

I live in a two-storey house, I still live with my parents and all of us are employed our house is empty for around 12 hours a day for 5 days in a week and our land, if we construct small houses around, could give housing for hundreds if not thousands( if we were to construct a flat) of people. Am I going to? Hell no, how would it make sense for my father who is a businessman to give away his hard-earned wealth to the so-called "less fortunate"? He's a self-made man, went from poverty to middle-income status.

I could easily accommodate a family in my house, how about you? I presume you earn enough to look after 4 more people? Let all middle to rich look after a poor family so we as a country can sing Kumbaya.

Ain't happening, I'm a "poor" Ambani, probably like you. If I had the level of income as the real Ambanis I would construct a Burj Khalifa and live there all by myself because it's my money, I earned it. I could throw that money into the ocean, and sleep like a baby, because it's my blood and sweat. It's not of the homeless guy.

The protesting farmers are from other states too, including Bihar.

I will tell you what Ravish Kumar said in his 9 PM show on NDTV India called Prime Time. He said that an average Bihari farmer earns 3000 rupees per month and this is enough to live a sparse life in a village but not something more. And combined that with loan-taking from micro-finance institutions or local mahajans both of whom charge high interest and this combined with a traditionally extreme capitalist socio-economic culture, pushes the farmers to suicide.

Now even if the Bihari farmer's monthly income is generally doubled and goes to 8000 they will remain poor. So their protest against these "reforms" where purchase of their farm produce is left to the decisions of capitalist big companies. This is also the fear of the Punjabi farmers. The supposedly richer Punjab also sees farmer suicides.

I don't know what I am missing, but all I see is a bunch of Turbans. So, the majority of the protesters are from Punjab. Also, just because a bunch of people are protesting, doesn't mean they are right. How come farming is the least income-generating job in the country? Despite the free electricity, water supply the government provides. If my previous employer was given free electricity, they would generate income that's in billions, higher than all farmers combined.

Your logic is getting funnier, so if farmers monthly income is doubled to 8000 it is not good?
Purchase of farm produce is left to everyone, Kerala government can purchase directly from farmers, as well as (your favourite) Ambani-Adani can purchase from farmers. I love it, let there be more Ambanis and Adanis.

Yes, India is a large country population-wise but it can be self-sufficient in food production and obtaining raw materials ( cement, iron etc ) for constructing good-quality housing colonies.

Additionally, agriculture in India should become modernized and scientific, and this will be through Urban Farming and Vertical Farming, both managed through computerization. Neighborhood-level Urban Farming is being implemented in Venezuela in conjunction with neighborhood-level decentralized political and economic organization like how it was in Libya and how the AAP and Swaraj Abhiyan want in India.

Yeah, the idea is good, but if farmers are not generating enough income, all these are just coffee table talking points. For a change in income, reforms are necessary. For reforms the government should take tough choices and not everyone is going to be on board in a country like India.

The real issue is, the government in Punjab losing revenue and big-ticket businessman losing theirs. That's the whole issue is about.

 

[jamahir]

I live in a two-storey house, I still live with my parents and all of us are employed our house is empty for around 12 hours a day for 5 days in a week and our land, if we construct small houses around, could give housing for hundreds if not thousands( if we were to construct a flat) of people. Am I going to? Hell no, how would it make sense for my father who is a businessman to give away his hard-earned wealth to the so-called "less fortunate"? He's a self-made man, went from poverty to middle-income status.

I could easily accommodate a family in my house, how about you? I presume you earn enough to look after 4 more people? Let all middle to rich look after a poor family so we as a country can sing Kumbaya.

I too am a middle class person living in a 2.5 storey house with my mother and two brothers. The house is sufficient for us.

I want to register a company too in three months or so and search for venture capital to pay for human and material resources.

What the government housing boards in India should have done is create scientific and better designed colonies similar to the American suburbs concept with two-storey houses with their own garden / tree space, set conveniently away from the wide roads and the other houses. The roads of course having footpaths.

What instead we have is 30x40 feet plots with even five-storey houses with no garden and the roads starting a short distance away from the house walls. And perhaps a hundred people packed into a short distance. The opposite side of the road also being so packed. A recipe for disaster in case of earthquake or fire. Ridiculous really.

Ain't happening, I'm a "poor" Ambani, probably like you. If I had the level of income as the real Ambanis I would construct a Burj Khalifa and live there all by myself because it's my money, I earned it. I could throw that money into the ocean, and sleep like a baby, because it's my blood and sweat. It's not of the homeless guy.

That's quite a callous statement. Tell me, did your money land up in your hands magically ? Perhaps through the boon of Lakshmi, the Hindu goddess of money who said "Tathastu" ?

No, "your" money came to you through its giving by others in society. If those others didn't exist you wouldn't have money. Additionally, you are able to use "your" money because it is accepted by those others for various services. "Your" wealth is not isolated from the society therefore you have to be caring of the economic condition of others.

Money is an artificial construct which would have been started at some point among humans because barter system became impractical. First the money would have been kawdi shells, then precious stones and then precious metal. The Chinese added to this artificial construct with their invention of paper money. But this artificial money created artificial problems : economic and social classes. Some people having more money than they need and others not having money for even their basic needs.

Down history people have tried to balance the need to remove economic classing with the need to ensure that non-basic need items of citizens can be paid for efficiently. Communism calls for abolishment of the traditional money system and various experiments of this were done. In this thread I present my proposal for such an economic system.

How come farming is the least income-generating job in the country?

You are correct. And as I said, agriculture in India has to become modernized and scientific, and Urban Farming and Vertical Farming done with Collective Farming is the way. I would dearly like if Indian state governments do these actually real reforms. Mechanization, computerization and collectivization of agriculture are the real reforms.

I love it, let there be more Ambanis and Adanis.

I will quote Ratan Tata who speaks about Ambani's 27-storey "house" :

Tata Group former chairman Ratan Tata said Antilia is an example of rich Indians' lack of empathy for the poor. Tata said, "The person who lives in there should be concerned about what he sees around him and asking can he make a difference. If he is not, then it's sad because this country needs people to allocate some of their enormous wealth to finding ways of mitigating the hardship that people have." "It makes me wonder why someone would do that. That's what revolutions are made of."

If my previous employer was given free electricity, they would generate income that's in billions, higher than all farmers combined.

What was this work sector ?