The largest World Bank loan for the health sector in India, $1 Billion Loan.

[jamahir]

Per rupee spent by Ambani is better used in the upliftment of India

Ambani and upliftment of India ? A Joke. Please read post# 16 where I mention him and what does Ratan Tata think of him.

Ambani should create jobs

India doesn't need "jobs". India needs scientific employment of its people. Things like scientific and away-from-tradition agriculture, progressive civil engineers, water engineers, product designers, new and portable electrical source designers, space industry workers, progressive political activists, internal security and other things I cannot think about now. What does Ambani know about all this ? He wishes to retain his oil refinery and the phone service built on top of technologies built by others.

What happened to that Ambani Aerospace project announced some years ago ? Did it even take off ? How many people were employed by it ?

save precious fx of india by getting investments in his projects

Sorry that doesn't make sense. See above.

His 5G investment and projects needs to be lauded.

It's probably the government is not allowing other Indian carriers to build 5G infrastructure. Modi's dear friend after all.

Because of him we have cheapest data in the world.

That's just a result of step-wise business strategy he put out and nothing technological. As far as I remember from some years ago he brought out limited-data-amount free connections to pull in people. Then he put out paid service and got pan-India carrier advantage through his government patrons. Then he purchased the existing installations of other carriers. Such things in the end led to his carrier able to provide cheap data. I have Jio with prepaid pack at charge of 555 rupees for 1.5 GB per day and 126 GB max for a duration of 84 days.

But I wouldn't have minded a bit costlier data from other carriers if the Indian internet was free of right-wing trolls and criminals affiliated to the government. Ambani or no Ambani.

Long live Ambani. Bless him.

See post# 16 on mine and Ratan Tata's comment about him.

Don't know why you are singing praises about him. He's neither Gaddafi nor Elon Musk nor any other progressor.

No we dont want him to donate money to be wasted on MSP .

Wasted ? You should tell that to the ghosts of 300,000+ Indian farmers who committed suicide for socio-economic reasons just between 1995 and 2015.

 

[Markandeya]

Ambani and upliftment of India ? A Joke. Please read post# 16 where I mention him and what does Ratan Tata think of him.



India doesn't need "jobs". India needs scientific employment of its people. Things like scientific and away-from-tradition agriculture, progressive civil engineers, water engineers, product designers, new and portable electrical source designers, space industry workers, progressive political activists, internal security and other things I cannot think about now. What does Ambani know about all this ? He wishes to retain his oil refinery and the phone service built on top of technologies built by others.

What happened to that Ambani Aerospace project announced some years ago ? Did it even take off ? How many people were employed by it ?



Sorry that doesn't make sense. See above.



It's probably the government is not allowing other Indian carriers to build 5G infrastructure. Modi's dear friend after all.



That's just a result of step-wise business strategy he put out and nothing technological. As far as I remember from some years ago he brought out limited-data-amount free connections to pull in people. Then he put out paid service and got pan-India carrier advantage through his government patrons. Then he purchased the existing installations of other carriers. Such things in the end led to his carrier able to provide cheap data. I have Jio with prepaid pack at charge of 555 rupees for 1.5 GB per day and 126 GB max for a duration of 84 days.

But I wouldn't have minded a bit costlier data from other carriers if the Indian internet was free of right-wing trolls and criminals affiliated to the government. Ambani or no Ambani.



See post# 16 on mine and Ratan Tata's comment about him.

Don't know why you are singing praises about him. He's neither Gaddafi nor Elon Musk nor any other progressor.



Wasted ? You should tell that to the ghosts of 300,000+ Indian farmers who committed suicide for socio-economic reasons just between 1995 and 2015.

Jamahir, you leftist survive on subsidies of state and wealth created by industrialist but would abuse the hands that feeds you.
On your own, your whole tribe cannot create any jobs but will intellectually masterbate.

Your time is passe. Your theories are utopian.

 

[xyxmt]

India and lone....I don't believe it, must be ISI propaganda
India's COVID-19 budget is bigger than entire Pakistan budget!!

 

[jamahir]

Jamahir, you leftist survive on subsidies of state and wealth created by industrialist

For decades after 1947 India not only depended on technology and food subsidized import from America but also from leftist USSR.

but would abuse the hands that feeds you.

Would you say that if I was a peasant and revolted and organized against the zamindari system that oppressed me since birth ? Would you say that if I was a Shudra or a Dalit who "abused" the Upper Caste overlords thrust upon me ( Didn't Ambedkar also say the same ) ? Would you say that if I was a factory worker whose company management did injustice to me and other workers and I decided to organize the workers into an employee union ? Remember, the Indian Constitution itself and international labor laws allow, rather encourage, workers in capitalist countries mainly to organize employee unions. Please see my own experience of that in this post.

On your own, your whole tribe cannot create any jobs but will intellectually masterbate.

In the history of mankind philosophers have duly so "masturbated" and produced thoughts for the betterment of human society. They included some Greeks, Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, Nanak, Marx, Lenin, Gaddafi, the initial Aam Aadmi Party, even Elon Musk who proposed Direct Democracy as the political system for near-future Mars settlement. Some of them created the social, economic and technological systems for creating the "jobs" you so much desire.

I too recently duly so "masturbated" and proposed a new economic system which you can read in this thread and a solution for Kashmir, the India-Pakistan antagonism and how to bring progressive political system which all you can read in this thread. Take time and read. You may find good.

Your time is passe.

Firstly, time for Communism is never passe. I quote the google result for "Communism" :

Communism is a philosophical, social, political and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money and the state. Wikipedia

How can such a progressive and scientific ideology have haters ?

Secondly, in India since the events of 2016 in JNU and the suicide of Rohith Vemula also in 2016 socialist / communist thought has seen a resurgence. And the association of other progressives / anti-injustice-activists like Jignesh Mevani and Chandrashekhar Azad Ravan and sensible journalist support system like Ravish Kumar and Arfa Khanum Sherwani.

Your theories are utopian.

But necessary.

The philosophers I mention above went on to have followers and create societies and inspire countless across the world.

The USSR existed from 1992 to 1991. A space of 69 years, less than the 73 years of modern India, yet the USSR was in more than one way better than India. As example, 300,000+ farmers in USSR didn't commit suicide like they did in India within ten years not so far back. In what ways are you claiming superiority of the Indian political, social and economic systems over those of others, especially those "masturbaters" you mentioned and I listed for you ?

 

[Markandeya]

For decades after 1947 India not only depended on technology and food subsidized import from America but also from leftist USSR.



Would you say that if I was a peasant and revolted and organized against the zamindari system that oppressed me since birth ? Would you say that if I was a Shudra or a Dalit who "abused" the Upper Caste overlords thrust upon me ( Didn't Ambedkar also say the same ) ? Would you say that if I was a factory worker whose company management did injustice to me and other workers and I decided to organize the workers into an employee union ? Remember, the Indian Constitution itself and international labor laws allow, rather encourage, workers in capitalist countries mainly to organize employee unions. Please see my own experience of that in this post.



In the history of mankind philosophers have duly so "masturbated" and produced thoughts for the betterment of human society. They included some Greeks, Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, Nanak, Marx, Lenin, Gaddafi, the initial Aam Aadmi Party, even Elon Musk who proposed Direct Democracy as the political system for near-future Mars settlement. Some of them created the social, economic and technological systems for creating the "jobs" you so much desire.

I too recently duly so "masturbated" and proposed a new economic system which you can read in this thread and a solution for Kashmir, the India-Pakistan antagonism and how to bring progressive political system which all you can read in this thread. Take time and read. You may find good.



Firstly, time for Communism is never passe. I quote the google result for "Communism" :

How can such a progressive and scientific ideology have haters ?

Secondly, in India since the events of 2016 in JNU and the suicide of Rohith Vemula also in 2016 socialist / communist thought has seen a resurgence. And the association of other progressives / anti-injustice-activists like Jignesh Mevani and Chandrashekhar Azad Ravan and sensible journalist support system like Ravish Kumar and Arfa Khanum Sherwani.



But necessary.

The philosophers I mention above went on to have followers and create societies and inspire countless across the world.

The USSR existed from 1992 to 1991. A space of 69 years, less than the 73 years of modern India, yet the USSR was in more than one way better than India. As example, 300,000+ farmers in USSR didn't commit suicide like they did in India within ten years not so far back. In what ways are you claiming superiority of the Indian political, social and economic systems over those of others, especially those "masturbaters" you mentioned and I listed for you ?

My uncle was a thoroughbred Communist....till he died. I am an economist myself from DU.

I have read your posts. I will not give you point wise rebuttal. I think the solutions to all issues in India ( as China has showcased and so has western world and Japan)....more and more capitalists, profit motive, animal spirit and the likes.

Only good job gives decent life to any human. Everything flows to you if you have stability, income and engagement.

Supply and Demand...supporting Governance and juduciary....and voila...you are a developed economy.

 

[Rajputana_]

The big deal is that Modi can spend :

1. 8400 crores on buying two American planes that are the equivalent of the American Air Force One. Just a needless vanity purchase.

2. 971 crores on the new unnecessary parliament building.

3. 2989 crores on the Vallabhbhai Patel statue, the current world's tallest statue.

4. 300 crores on the upcoming Ram temple.

5. 2500 crores on the proposed Ram statue, the proposed next world's tallest statue.

But Modi cannot spend on providing homes to the homeless, food to the hungry, sight to the blind, treatment to the diseased and upliftment to the Dalits, the Muslims, the farmers, the students and yes the beggars that you mention.

Yes, Modi can spend to maintain the huge Indian military which is the world's second-largest importer of armaments.

Yet Modi says he cannot take away money from all his unnecessary spendings and has to take a loan from the World Bank towards Corona response.



Pradhan Mantri this, Pradhan Mantri that... Every other second government scheme in Modi's name, while Modi is the serving PM, not someone who has died decades ago. Let me hark back to some years when he wore a 10 lakhs costing suit that had "Narendra Damodardas Modi" written repeatedly in small print all over it. And then it was auctioned as if it was some timeless work of art and some idiot bought it for 11 lakhs.

This fellow is so vain, so full of himself. Yet his bhakts keep praising him effusively.

And he presents himself as origining as a humble tea-seller in his youth.





What about crooks in India proudly and boringly saying that India is one of the world's largest economies ( 5th as of 2019 ) ? Why did India need to take this measly two billion dollar loan ? And how has that "largest economy" status actually benefited India's people ?



Think about this contradiction in India. Modi's dear friend Mukesh Ambani built a 27-storey house for a family of four ( now five ) while not far away from it there are people living in jhuggis with four to five people in cramped two or one rooms. Not to speak of people not having food in many places in the country.

And Ambani's fellow-rich-man Ratan Tata has this to say about that tower "house" :

Has Modi made a mention about the incongruity of this building in his six years of prime ministership ? But a communist leader in Bombay did say some months ago that this building's most floors should be used as treatment rooms for Corona. Needless to say his proposal was not listened to by Ambani and his patrons.



Sure, "poor nation". 5th largest economy in 2019 and read my previous posts.

And how is India not "begging" ?

This is typical commie argument line, why spend on science technology and culture instead give out all wealth to everyone.

This is not how economics works, this dream of distributing equality ends in a creating more poor, try to look at history for once and learn.

 

[nahtanbob]

That is besides the point. Though it could have been from another source like Russia, if that was possible.



My point is that the Indian government has the economic, human and material resources to create an actual and functioning welfare state. Yet it reserves those resources to create useless projects like those five I listed at the top of my post and the huge military.

And yes, it is the government's necessary duty to bailout its people ( the "everyone" you mentioned ), whether for a pandemic or for other needs, especially when it proudly claims to be the world's largest economy.

What is the use otherwise ?

Excuse me why does governments have to bailout every deadbeat or irresponsible citizen ?

 

[ARMalik]

I don't get it - how come SHUPA-POWA India needs to BORROW 1-billion Dollars from WB???

 

[nahtanbob]

I don't get it - how come SHUPA-POWA India needs to BORROW 1-billion Dollars from WB???

same reason china borrows

World Bank adopts $1 billion-plus annual China lending plan over US objections

The World Bank said its board on Thursday adopted a new plan to aid China with $1 billion to $1.5 billion in low-interest loans annually through June 2025.

www.cnbc.com

 

[Daghalodi]

Indian Trolls are always bragging about How Rich India is here on PDF. How Indian Reserves are just out of this world, off the charts dogma. They created a hype that Indians are so Rich that they dont need to borrow loans.

Now Richie Rich Indians are in defense mode when they get caught for borrowing a Loan.

They have to talk about other countries to save their embarrassement. Explanations after Explanations how China is borrowing also at the same time still bragging we get loans on our terms.

SupaPowa 2020 lungi gets ripped apart everytime that bollywood bubble is busted.

 

[Chhatrapati]

What about crooks in India proudly and boringly saying that India is one of the world's largest economies ( 5th as of 2019 ) ? Why did India need to take this measly two billion dollar loan ? And how has that "largest economy" status actually benefited India's people ?

So, you're saying it is bad? Are commies generally daft or just pretending?
The government take loans so that they don't have to strain their coffers for it. Largest economy is by GDP output, we don't churn out cash, we churn out products whose net value is calculated and is called GDP. Taking loans and GDP are two things.
It is much similar to using credit cards, you have a better credit score, you get more loans and it is easier for you to pay them back because you are credit worthy. You can use your revenues elsewhere, also, the things you bought using your credit may generate income which makes it worth taking. I can explain in different ways until you get it.

Now Richie Rich Indians are in defense mode when they get caught for borrowing a Loan.

What I don't understand is, countries with 'junk' credit rating trolling.

 

[charene514]

2 minutes of silence for pakistanis who got burned on this thread

Sad they dont understand the difference between World Bank and IMF. Par aapko ghabrana nahn hai

 

[jamahir]

My uncle was a thoroughbred Communist

That's wonderful to hear. Tell me more about him if you want to.

....till he died.

Sorry to hear that there is not even a remote chance of him participating in discussions on PDF.

I am an economist myself from DU.

I have read your posts. I will not give you point wise rebuttal

Why not ? At least at broad-level give a critique of my proposed economic system.

I think the solutions to all issues in India ( as China has showcased and so has western world and Japan)....more and more capitalists, profit motive, animal spirit and the likes.

Recently there was a thread about poor Chinese not able to afford high-quality quality healthcare in China and coming to India to avail of India's medical tourism which they find relatively cheaper than in "Communist" China. Those poor don't have access to free healthcare. But the basic question is why is there a economic class differentiation ( rich, poor, middle ) in a Communist country ? There are billionaires there like Jack Ma but also poor who cannot afford high-quality medical treatment there. An absurdity ! The Chinese middle class is satisfied with its new-found ability to buy personal-transport cars and with the high-pitch nationalism of China becoming a bigger military force, not considering the troubled lives of their country's poor. That is Capitalist China for you.

About Japan, an advanced society socially / culturally with its cat island and all, but also has Capitalism-related ills like high-competition in educational institutions ( leading to student suicides ) and some people keeping the dead bodies of their parents at home and not communicating of this to the authorities as they want to continue receiving the pension of their parents.

The website of the Democratic Socialists of America has a statement that Capitalism creates unnecessary competition among humans and thus creates disharmony ( this last are my words ). One manifestation of this in India is an artificially low number of educational institutes which leads to India having a silly system of limited seats per college to gain which students have to engage in unscientific pursuit of high exam marks. An intimately connected thing to this is some institutes offering some of those limited seats to "meritorious" ( high marks taking ) students. Read this thread of mine from some days ago about a girl from Telangana who, at a more immediate reason, committed suicide because Delhi University ( your own alma mater ) wasn't sending her the promised scholarship money. Her family was poor and her younger sister had to have her studies discontinued to divert money to the older girl's studies. Was this suicide and their general situation necessary ? Why doesn't India have free high-quality education to all levels and institutes spread all over the country ? Why do student suicides have to occur, including in that accursed town Kota where reside stupid coaching classes ?

Only good job gives decent life to any human. Everything flows to you if you have stability, income and engagement.

You should remove yourself from obsessing with the micro-level well called "jobs" and understand that India needs employment that is scientifically designed, those all that I said to you previously. Think macro-level too. Think holistically.

Until 2014 the arrogant Indian software engineers in IBM-India and TCS thought that they had "good jobs and stability". Then in early 2014... Read this post.

Also, in India until Kingfisher Airlines had neo-rich software engineers and MBAs had money to fly in luxury to foreign shores on this airline the airline employees thought they had a "good job" and decent life but once those passengers lost jobs or had salary cuts because of external artificial factors this airline couldn't get enough passengers to allow it to maintain its human staff, aircraft maintenance, airport fee and other monies to be given. The employees of Kingfisher lost their jobs and some protested in an organized way. But in the case of one engineer of this airline his wife committed suicide because the family was financially distressed because of their previous "good job" money being invested in purchase or conduct of various middle class things including their son's college fee.

Supply and Demand

"Supply and Demand" shouldn't always be taken as correct approach. The global automobile industry supplies hugely to India because of demand in India, especially among the Indian middle class which buys cars and two-wheelers. But this has lead to huge pollution from these vehicles. A recent report said that India had four among ten of the most traffic-created polluted and traffic-congested cities in the world and Bangalore being the number one in the world. According to Karnataka state CM, Bangalore has 8.4 million vehicles and most of these would be privately-owned personal transports. Creation of massive pollution which came through "Supply and Demand". Was this the right approach ? What should instead be the correct approach ? Like this here.

...supporting Governance and juduciary....and voila...you are a developed economy.

Judiciary... We should think of the release from jail of the right-wing troll Arnab Goswami, the release from jail of that bomber Sadhvi Pragya and the continued incarceration of the progressive activists Varavara Rao and Professor GN Saibaba despite these last two having serious health conditions, though now the Bombay High Court has allowed Rao's transfer to a hospital because the court says he is on his death-bed.

There are other examples too.

We should think about reforming the judiciary where it is found not being just.

This is typical commie argument line, why spend on science technology and culture instead give out all wealth to everyone.

1. Did I say India shouldn't spend on science and technology ? Among other fields I want India to spend on making scientific and modern the agricultural sector ( this post of mine ) and to spend on setting up an ambitious program for an Indian manned Mars settlement, in collaboration with others, by the early 2030s and towards which ISRO can at this point itself set up a Mars Analog Station in some cold desert region.

2. What do you mean by "Culture" ?

this dream of distributing equality ends in a creating more poor

How ?

This thread of mine has a proposal from me for a new Communist socio-economic system. It is meant to eliminate economic classification ( rich, middle, poor ). This is still a work in progress but read through the thread and tell me how you think it will retain the poor class, or like you said, will create more poor.

 

[GS Zhou]

Modi's dear friend Mukesh Ambani built a 27-storey house for a family of four ( now five ) while not far away from it there are people living in jhuggis with four to five people in cramped two or one rooms.

That's exactly my feeling when I was in Mumbai a few years before and saw this grand building. I thought it is a hotel or a new office building, but some locals told me this is the home for a family of four or five people. My feeling is like: WTF? You must be kidding me! How can a billionaire show-off his wealth in such a ungraceful manner? and just a short distance away, you can see very bad poverty.

 

[jamahir]

That's exactly my feeling when I was in Mumbai a few years before and saw this grand building. I thought it is a hotel or a new office building, but some locals told me this is the home for a family of four or five people. My feeling is like: WTF? You must be kidding me! How can a billionaire show-off his wealth in such a ungraceful manner? and just a short distance away, you can see very bad poverty.

Yes indeed.

More ungraceful show-off manner by them ( Source ) :

Mukesh Ambani and Nita Ambani own a total of 168 cars which are parked inside their house Antilia. Out of all these cars, Mukesh and Nita Ambani own 8 luxury cars that cost in crores.

The 27-storey building has 6 floors dedicated to just cars. Another floor is also dedicated to the service station. The Ambanis own the most expensive cars of the world.

So these 168 many luxury cars for the exclusive use by a single family while lot of Bombay ( Mumbai ) travels like this :