The largest tank battle in history: Battle of Kursk documentary

[Kambojaric]

Germans could have never won the war.

If the mongols could do it in the Medieval ages, then why couldnt the Germans do it in the modern era?

 

[Hashshāshīn]

Germans could have never won the war.

They could have. If only the Germans honoured the Molotov–Ribbentrop, they could've easily defeated Britain, and then concentrated all their forces to the East against the Soviets. US wouldn't have entered the war if it was just US vs Germany.

 

[Desert Fox]

two big mistakes made by hitler one was operation barborossa BEFORE he ended the war in the western theater & second was operation citedal! the soviets had 3 factors which have never been defeated, enormeous amount of land second enormous amount of men & finally the bloody cold weather!


napoleon lost & so did hitler.

1). Yes, operation Barbarossa was a initial success, however it was only a failure because the Soviets were better prepared for war than the Germans.

Had Hitler not launched Operation Barbarossa, the Red Army would have reached the English Channel within a few weeks once Stalin would have launched his own impending invasion of Europe which was only to take place 3-4 weeks after the German operation was launched.

Wehrmacht invaded Soviet Union with 3,000 Tanks and 3,000 Aircraft, while the Soviets had between 21,000-25,000 (some say even more) Tanks massed on the German-Soviet Border as well as more than 10,000 aircraft.

Soviets had 1 million paratroopers in 1939, more than all of European countries combined, and paratroopers are only used in offensive missions behind enemy lines.

Soviet Union was the only nation in the world who's army was equipped with amphibious Tanks as well as Tanks that can be dropped from aircraft. The red army even had specially modified Tanks who's tracks could be removed and replaced with wheels for driving on roads and motorways, it should be noted that only Europe (in particular Germany) had motorways while the Soviet Union had none, so the only purpose of such tanks would be for a offensive war in Europe, not a defensive one.

Most of German army was still dependent on horses for towing their artillery guns, more than 700,000 horses participated in Operation Barbarossa under the German invasion force.

3 million red army troops surrendered in the first few weeks of Operation Barbarossa with millions more yet to surrender which brings up 2 questions:

Q: Why were such large numbers of Soviet Troops concentrated on the German-Soviet frontier?

A: Either the Soviets were preparing to launch a massive offensive of their own or they were stationed there for defensive purpose, but the weapons and equipment that was captured by the Germans had a completely offensive nature. Also, the Germans recovered booklets from red army officers that translated Russian phrases and sentences into German, French, Italian and other mainland European languages, these could only come into use if the Red Army was preparing to invade Europe. Secondly, during the battle of Kursk the Red army was successful in halting the German offensive, mainly because the Red army this time was prepared for defense and their units were positioned in defensive which is why they were able to defeat a technologically superior German army.

Q: Why were the Germans able to inflict such a blow to the red army in the initial stages of Operation Barbarossa if the Red Army had far superior numbers of Tanks and Aircraft as well as other units as compared to the Germans?

A: The Tanks of the red army were all mostly of offensive nature and they were also positioned in offensive formations. Most of these Tanks were useless in defensive engagements and were also of no use on Soviet territory due to their special modifications. For example, what use would there be of a Tank modified to be used on motorways for a terrain without motorways. Coming to the red air force, it too was positioned too close to the German-soviet frontier in order to give the Soviet aircraft maximum coverage of German occupied territory once they took off, but this again became useless once the Germans surrounded these airfields when they launched their own offensive.

2) Why did Operation Citadel fail for the Germans despite the Wehrmacht possessing technological superiority over the Red army, and why did the Red Army come out victorious in the battle of Kursk?

The Red army was prepared for a defense this time, they had made all necessary arrangements needed to halt the German offensive like preparing anti-Tank ditches, laying out thousands of anti-Tank as well as anti-Personnel mines, setting up Tank traps and setting up ambushes of various Anti-Tank guns.


Operation Barbarossa was a initial success, but in the long run it was a failure since the German offensive was launched in a haste in order to prevent a Soviet invasion of Europe, leaving the Wehrmacht completely unprepared for a long war which prolonged into the winter season. A tactical success for the Wehrmacht but a Strategic failure.

 

[Mian H Amin.]

What a joke it seems u have a very little knowledge about it.
450-500 tanks participated from yr side only n come 281 tanks i think from our side.
In that War u had attacked Chawinda in Sialkot Sector. We defended that successfully n u had retreated with just 150-100 tanks...So who was the winner!!!!

Well its clearly the defending side who won because it succeeded in defending the area n u failed to capture the area for whom u had Actually Attacked.

The main purpose of yr attack didnt fulfilled......

 

[Koovie]

well all of europe was under their control for well over 3 years everything was going well until the fateful barbarossa campaign & destruction of hitler's 6 th army in stalingrad! so i believe they could have won easily

No, even if they had captured Moscow, the Soviets would have just shifted their capital to the east. They did that even 100 years before the Nazi invasion during the war against Napoleon. During the time of the battle of Moscow they had already shifted the bulk of their production to the east. The Germans could have never sustained their terror regime and during the war more and more of their economy became based on slave labor. Furthermore they had to fight instability everywhere in form of resistance movements, often supported by the allies.

HAHAHAH What a joke it seems u have a very little knowledge about it.
450-500 tanks participated from yr side only n come 281 tanks i think from our side.
In that War u had attacked Chawinda in Sialkot Sector. We defended that successfully n u had retreated with just 150-100 tanks...So who was the winner!!!!

Well its clearly the defending side who won because it succeeded in defending the area n u failed to capture the area for whom u had Actually Attacked.

The main purpose of yr attack didnt fulfilled......

AFAIK, Pakistan attacked India in 1965 in order to recapture Kashmir, and you ended up fighting on your soil.
Anyway, regarding the outcome of that battle, read the result part again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chawinda

NOW BACK TO TOPIC!

 

[Umair Nawaz]

No, even if they had captured Moscow, the Soviets would have just shifted their capital to the east. They did that even 100 years before the Nazi invasion during the war against Napoleon. During the time of the battle of Moscow they had already shifted the bulk of their production to the east. The Germans could have never sustained their terror regime and during the war more and more of their economy became based on slave labor. Furthermore they had to fight instability everywhere in form of resistance movements, often supported by the allies.



AFAIK, Pakistan attacked India in 1965 in order to recapture Kashmir, and you ended up fighting on your soil.
Anyway, regarding the outcome of that battle, read the result part again: Battle of Chawinda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NOW BACK TO TOPIC!

KIDDO

It was u who attacked us in 6th september 1965 at night 3 AM not we did that......Its been discussed many time here.
You claim about something operation Gibraltor but there is no proof of that in the History.
Actually yr country is trying to reform the Moral of its Nation by twisting and making things just to back the younger Generation as it sees itself as a global power in future.
So like promising progress in other fields the field of Armed Forces is also something it want to do n the most concerning thing about it is yr history which is full of 2 defeats in the hands of Much smaller n low in tech armed force.

So basically it is trying to save its face.
Regarding the Battle of Chawinda, well everybody knows Pak armed forces had won it against all odds.
And now u quoting me something from a source in which anything can be feed by just clicking edit button well we dont accept it as a source in Pakistan because it is a Communitical forum where any body can write anything n in one part it says something else n in the other sub heading/page it completely contradicts itself, because in the main page some guy edits the info but he doesnt remembers to edit it on other sides as well.

And let me tell u this too that Wikipedia's chief editor is an indian nation too so its not surprising as what it will say anyways!!!!.

 

[Night_Raven]

It was u who attacked us in 6th september 1965 at night 3 AM not we did that......Its been discussed many time here.
You claim about something operation Gibraltor but there is no proof of that in the History.

India attacked Pakistan in 1965 war .. this is a classic example of distorted history being spoon-fed to Pakistani kids from their childhood.

1965 war began on 5th August , 1965 when between 26,000 and 33,000 Pakistani soldiers crossed the Line of Control dressed as Kashmiri locals headed for various areas within Kashmir.

Operation Gibralter was a reality .. wake up .. read from neutral sources and take your frikkin' head out of the sand for one time atleast.

And let me tell u this too that Wikipedia's chief editor is an indian nation too so its not surprising as what it will say anyways

Really kid, sure you're still not in school ?


@ Topic :

Battle formations in Battle of Kursk

 

[Umair Nawaz]

India attacked Pakistan in 1965 war .. this is a classic example of distorted history being spoon-fed to Pakistani kids from their childhood.

1965 war began on 5th August , 1965 when between 26,000 and 33,000 Pakistani soldiers crossed the Line of Control dressed as Kashmiri locals headed for various areas within Kashmir.

Operation Gibralter was a reality .. wake up .. read from neutral sources and take your frikkin' head out of the sand for one time atleast.



Really kid, sure you're still not in school ?


@ Topic :

Battle formations in Battle of Kursk

iTS FUNNY A KID IS REFERRING ME AS A KID..............

DUDE I MADE MYSELF CLEAR ENOUGH TO PROVE IT FIRST THEN OPEN YR MOUTH OTHER THEN THAT KEEP YR MOUTH SHUT IF U DONT KNOW REALITY.BY SEARCHING FOR ''CLASSIC EXAMPLES'' ON OTHER WONT DO ANY GOOD FOR U!!!!!!!!
lIKE I SAID YR COUNTRY IS TRYING TO SAVE ITS FACE INFRONT OF THE COMING GENERATIONS SO ITS SHE WHO IS 'EXAMPLE OF DISTORTED HISTORY'' NOT WE....

i meant seriously guys u claim of an incident about which u guys r not been able to generate a sold evidence even in this 21st century n u still want us to believe u

About rest of yr post
Stupid man, i was talking about Battle of Chawinda n wikipedia not Battle of Kursk!!!

Read my post again.

 

[Koovie]

KIDDO

It was u who attacked us in 6th september 1965 at night 3 AM not we did that......Its been discussed many time here.
You claim about something operation Gibraltor but there is no proof of that in the History.
Actually yr country is trying to reform the Moral of its Nation by twisting and making things just to back the younger Generation as it sees itself as a global power in future.
So like promising progress in other fields the field of Armed Forces is also something it want to do n the most concerning thing about it is yr history which is full of 2 defeats in the hands of Much smaller n low in tech armed force.

So basically it is trying to save its face.
Regarding the Battle of Chawinda, well everybody knows Pak armed forces had won it against all odds.
And now u quoting me something from a source in which anything can be feed by just clicking edit button well we dont accept it as a source in Pakistan because it is a Communitical forum where any body can write anything n in one part it says something else n in the other sub heading/page it completely contradicts itself, because in the main page some guy edits the info but he doesnt remembers to edit it on other sides as well.

And let me tell u this too that Wikipedia's chief editor is an indian nation too so its not surprising as what it will say anyways!!!!.

I expected that. Whenever its about poverty or minorities in India you guys spam with wiki articles, but ones you see something that brings bad light on Pakistan its a Indian/western/(and my personal favorite)ZIONIST PROPAGANDA!!!! EEEEVILLLLLLLLLL
Or its simply a conspiracy.

'Pakistanis love conspiracy theories'

'Pakistanis love conspiracy theories' | Asia | DW.DE | 16.10.2012

Its utter nonsense and a waste of time to discuss with these guys forget it.

 

[cloud]

Why one joker has to come with his chest thumping.. Spoiling the mood of this thread.

 

[Tridibans]

1). Yes, operation Barbarossa was a initial success, however it was only a failure because the Soviets were better prepared for war than the Germans.

Had Hitler not launched Operation Barbarossa, the Red Army would have reached the English Channel within a few weeks once Stalin would have launched his own impending invasion of Europe which was only to take place 3-4 weeks after the German operation was launched.

Though I agree with the rest of your post, the bolded part is NOT TRUE. There is no evidence whatsoever to support Stalin was about to attack Nazi germany.

1) Stalin, as any dictator would, knew that a country as big as USSR would never be out of this world war. Eventually they had o join it. But , you have to understand USSR at this time was not friendly with the west. They were IDEOLOGICALLY OPPOSITE to western ideologies. Stalin wanted to wait and let the other powers fight it out and destroy themselves.

2) Another failed strategy of Germany was to hit USSR before finishing off Britain. But then again, the point is, if Germany coul not beat USSR in 1941, would they be able to in 1942?

3) At first, Germany was winning in Russia. The only two big mistakes that Hitler did were to treat the slavs as sub-human. Many had earlier welcomed the Germans with open hands (Blatic states, Ukraine, etc.) Secondly, he often interfered with his generals and dictated against a militarily sound plan.

4) Why USSR was on the brink of collapse at first? Two points: Firstly, after the great purges of Stalin in 37-38, most of the top leadership of Soviet Military were immature and inexperiened commies. Secondly, even after many scret info. to stalin that Germans are on the brink of a n attack, he dismissed these claims (he found it atrocious to believe this as he had just signed a treaty with hitler) and forbade to react accordingly to face the attack n the western frontiers.

For more details, I would suggest interested posters here to visit forum.axishistory.com and ww2f.com
Minefield for ww2 informations on the net.

 

[Koovie]

Why one joker has to come with his chest thumping.. Spoiling the mood of this thread.

True.

From now on, just ignore any off topic posts and DONT ANSWER THEM! REPORT THEM.

 

[Night_Raven]

iTS FUNNY A KID IS REFERRING ME AS A KID..............

DUDE I MADE MYSELF CLEAR ENOUGH TO PROVE IT FIRST THEN OPEN YR MOUTH OTHER THEN THAT KEEP YR MOUTH SHUT IF U DONT KNOW REALITY.BY SEARCHING FOR ''CLASSIC EXAMPLES'' ON OTHER WONT DO ANY GOOD FOR U!!!!!!!!
lIKE I SAID YR COUNTRY IS TRYING TO SAVE ITS FACE INFRONT OF THE COMING GENERATIONS SO ITS SHE WHO IS 'EXAMPLE OF DISTORTED HISTORY'' NOT WE....

i meant seriously guys u claim of an incident about which u guys r not been able to generate a sold evidence even in this 21st century n u still want us to believe u

Seriously , no use arguing with Pakistanis.

There's a saying : "Don't argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you."

About rest of yr post
Stupid man, i was talking about Battle of Chawinda n wikipedia not Battle of Kursk!!!

Read my post again.

Read MY post again. No reason you still remain a kiddo !!

@ Topic :

Battle formations in Battle of Kursk

Guy's been so into trolling that he forgot the thread he is trolling on !

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Seriously , no use arguing with Pakistanis.

There's a saying : "Don't argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you."



Read MY post again. No reason you still remain a kiddo !!



Guy's been so into trolling that he forgot the thread he is trolling on !

Well usually Indians r the one who Troll here
Ok i accept, it was my bad Happy now.(about yr on Topic section of yr precious post)

You said ''Seriously , no use arguing with Pakistanis.''

and u kept on to say 'iThere's a saying on't argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you."

So what r u doing in a Pak military forum???
I mean Mr Night Raven u dislike Pakistanis but still chose to be a member of our forum rather then yr own ones ie indian defence forum and Bharat Rakshak. We have just one for public n u have 2. but still u come here and in the other hand u say that '' no use of arguing with pakistanis''

Mr this is a Pakistan's Military Forum, if u want us to believe at something then then u will have to talk with logic or atleast give sources of yr claim who r not questionable then we will believe u.

What i had said is true and right that u claim of an incident about which u guys r not been able to generate a sold evidence even in this 21st century n u still want us to believe u!!!!.

 

[KingMamba]

?Really?

Battle of Chawinda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Yom Kippur War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

.
Yom Kippur War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It was the largest tank battle since world war 2, he just got his dates messed up because yom kippur war came a few years after and then eclipsed it.

Germans could have never won the war.

They could have won, they just made a few mistakes which were directly because of Hitler.