The killing of the Sikhs of Pakistan

[jatt+gutts]

there are good and bad Pakistanis...I have no problem with Pakistanis outside cyber space... I think in general they are respecting towards Sikhs one cant generalize on couple of bad apples

 

[Kabira]

So all the Sikhs and Hindus who have come as refugees and living in poverty in India are lying.
Pakistani newspapers are lying.
International reports about why minorities are literally fleeing Pakistan are lying.

Sure.
In case you could not read my last post fully, I have provided Pakistani sources to corroborate what I have said. If you want, I can give more references as proof including what the refugee Pakistani Sikhs and Hindus have said.

I don't know wtf are you talking about, sikhs are only temporary Indians that Pakistanis respect because they are punjabis.

 

[qamar1990]

So all the Sikhs and Hindus who have come as refugees and living in poverty in India are lying.
Pakistani newspapers are lying.
International reports about why minorities are literally fleeing Pakistan are lying.

Sure.
In case you could not read my last post fully, I have provided Pakistani sources to corroborate what I have said. If you want, I can give more references as proof including what the refugee Pakistani Sikhs and Hindus have said.

ok so why don't you post the figures??? how many refugees have gone to india?? a few hundred???lol
i can email pakistani hindus from the pakistani hindu association and i can ask these sikhs friends of mines to join this forum as well lol….
trust bro your not fooling no body…
get some facts straight #1…. india has more hate crimes against minorities
# 2 … I'm not denying that there is no crimes against minorities in pakistan but you guys are trying to blow it out of proportion
#3… you mixing causalities during this war on terrorism with hate crimes, because every pakistani is a target… more muslims died then non-muslims( muslims of all sects)…. in fact more sunni muslims died then anybody else.

 

[Kompromat]

Pakistani society is generally respectful of Sikhs, mainly because both are monotheists. Unfortunately we cannot control the targeting of minorities, especially with a govt which runs a terrorist wing of its own.

 

[Contrarian]

ok so why don't you post the figures??? how many refugees have gone to india?? a few hundred???lol
i can email pakistani hindus from the pakistani hindu association and i can ask these sikhs friends of mines to join this forum as well lol….
trust bro your not fooling no body…
get some facts straight #1…. india has more hate crimes against minorities
# 2 … I'm not denying that there is no crimes against minorities in pakistan but you guys are trying to blow it out of proportion
#3… you mixing causalities during this war on terrorism with hate crimes, because every pakistani is a target… more muslims died then non-muslims( muslims of all sects)…. in fact more sunni muslims died then anybody else.

I am not interested in debating an issue in which you refuse to accept facts and sources from all around - including Pakistani sources which corroborate what I am saying in addition to Indian and other International ones.

I have also noticed that you are consistently wrong on facts and pass off what you have heard or feel as facts.
As an example:
As far as hate crimes against minorities are concerned I urge you to look at Human Rights Watch and UN lists on minority treatment and ask yourself why India consistently ranks higher than Pakistan in this index. To logical minds it implies that India affords better rights to its minorities than Pakistan does.

Another example of you pulling a riaz haq style falsification is that while it is accepted that more Muslims have been killed than non-Muslims in the last decade, yet non-Muslims have been systematically targeted by Muslims in Pakistan is equally undeniable, notwithstanding the fact that minorities are less than 5% of Pakistans entire population.

The last time you were wrong on facts was when you claimed that Pakistani Punjab is more prosperous than Indian Punjab. When I asked you to prove your claim, you did not. When In fact, I told you then that Indian Punjab is ahead of Pakistani Punjab is every per capita parameter chosen - from electricity consumption per capita to literacy rate to agricultural yields among numerous other aspects.

 

[qamar1990]

I am not interested in debating an issue in which you refuse to accept facts and sources from all around - including Pakistani sources which corroborate what I am saying in addition to Indian and other International ones.

i am telling you from what i know by looking at the ground realities… you live in india …you don't know the situation.
there are crimes against minorities in pakistan but it is blown out of proportion

As far as hate crimes against minorities are concerned I urge you to look at Human Rights Watch and UN lists on minority treatment and ask yourself why India consistently ranks higher than Pakistan in this index. To logical minds it implies that India affords better rights to its minorities than Pakistan does.

india has more casualties and more incidents of hate crimes then pakistan…
can you list 50 crimes against minorities in pakistan from the last decade???
i can probably list 50 in india fom just one year or less.

Another example of you pulling a riaz haq style falsification is that while it is accepted that more Muslims have been killed than non-Muslims in the last decade, yet non-Muslims have been systematically targeted by Muslims in Pakistan is equally undeniable, notwithstanding the fact that minorities are less than 5% of Pakistans entire population.

your wrong here my friend… i never denied hate crimes in pakistan but i will deny that minorities are systematically being killed in pakistan.. its something that is just not true.

The last time you were wrong on facts was when you claimed that Pakistani Punjab is more prosperous than Indian Punjab. When I asked you to prove your claim, you did not. When In fact, I told you then that Indian Punjab is ahead of Pakistani Punjab is every per capita parameter chosen - from electricity consumption per capita to literacy rate to agricultural yield per capita among numerous other aspects.

our punjab hosts million of afghan refugees who are like leeches… so hence the problems. your punjab has a market of 1 billion people to sell their agricultural goods to… don't forget that.. and all of india depends heavily on your punjab for wheat ect…so obviously they reduce more agricultural goods per capita…
just a question… what else comes our of your punjab besides agricultural stuff??

 

[Contrarian]

i am telling you from what i know by looking at the ground realities… you live in india …you don't know the situation.
there are crimes against minorities in pakistan but it is blown out of proportion

I dont have to live in Pakistan to know about Pakistan. The reports are all over the place and India is hosting thousands of Pakistani Hindus and Sikhs as refugees. Poor people living in shanty towns who despite poverty refuse to go back to Pakistan because they say they are heavily discriminated against.
Do go through this article.
3,753 Pakistani Hindus took indian visa between Jan13-Jan14

india has more casualties and more incidents of hate crimes then pakistan…
can you list 50 crimes against minorities in pakistan from the last decade???
i can probably list 50 in india fom just one year or less.

Comparisons between India and Pakistan must always be on a per capita basis. Otherwise India will dwarf Pakistan in everything from electricity production to homicides and suicides simply on account of population differential.

Consequently per capita comparisons bring out the true difference between the two societies and their level of improvement over the years.
Here is a report for you to peruse on crime level of India and Pakistan normalized to a population basis. Please go through this to come to a conclusion
WJP Rule of Law Index | The World Justice Project

our punjab hosts million of afghan refugees who are like leeches… so hence the problems. your punjab has a market of 1 billion people to sell their agricultural goods to… don't forget that.. and all of india depends heavily on your punjab for wheat ect…so obviously they reduce more agricultural goods per capita…
just a question… what else comes our of your punjab besides agricultural stuff??

Agricultural productivity is not dependent on number of refugees being hosted in a place, it is dependent on agricultural technology and management practices used.
Similarly electricity consumption per capita is an indicator of how industrialized a society is and its level of development.
A counter example to illustrate is that Indian Punjab also hosts millions of poor people from other states of India like UP and Bihar who go to Punjab to make a living and are essentially hosted by Punjab.

And Indian Punjab in addition to agricultural produce also majorly produces agro based products, production of industrial machinery (mostly production of machinery used in agriculture like harvesters, combines, etc) and chemical production. Other things like textiles, etc are also there but the big three are the ones I listed above.

 

[Butchcassidy]

just a question… what else comes our of your punjab besides agricultural stuff??

Beautiful people like me

 

[qamar1990]

I dont have to live in Pakistan to know about Pakistan. The reports are all over the place and India is hosting thousands of Pakistani Hindus and Sikhs as refugees. Poor people living in shanty towns who despite poverty refuse to go back to Pakistan because they say they are heavily discriminated against.
Do go through this article.
3,753 Pakistani Hindus took indian visa between Jan13-Jan14

Comparisons between India and Pakistan must always be on a per capita basis. Otherwise India will dwarf Pakistan in everything from electricity production to homicides and suicides simply on account of population differential.

Consequently per capita comparisons bring out the true difference between the two societies and their level of improvement over the years.
Here is a report for you to peruse on crime level of India and Pakistan normalized to a population basis. Please go through this to come to a conclusion
WJP Rule of Law Index | The World Justice Project

Agricultural productivity is not dependent on number of refugees being hosted in a place, it is dependent on agricultural technology and management practices used.
Similarly electricity consumption per capita is an indicator of how industrialized a society is and its level of development.
A counter example to illustrate is that Indian Punjab also hosts millions of poor people from other states of India like UP and Bihar who go to Punjab to make a living and are essentially hosted by Punjab.

And Indian Punjab in addition to agricultural produce also majorly produces agro based products, production of industrial machinery (mostly production of machinery used in agriculture like harvesters, combines, etc) and chemical production. Other things like textiles, etc are also there but the big three are the ones I listed above.

I am not surprised when Kumar tells me that he continues to seek a place where his family can live a better life, preferably in his own country. “I will leave Thul and perhaps go to Karachi or Hyderabad,” he muses. “These cities are far more open to all kinds of communities. No one is bothered about your religion. And what is more satisfying than not having to leave the country of your birth?”

Source: 3,753 Pakistani Hindus took indian visa between Jan13-Jan14

perhaps you didn't read the last bit..

 

[Jaggu]

From what I have heard from Pak Sikhs and Indian Yatris that have gone to Pakistan, the Pakistanis are respectful. These attacks seem to be from TTP types not the average Pakistani

 

[qamar1990]

From what I have heard from Pak Sikhs and Indian Yatris that have gone to Pakistan, the Pakistanis are respectful. These attacks seem to be from TTP types not the average Pakistani

@Contrarian

 

[foxbat]

Nothing like that in India. No wonder they blew up Air India 747.

Is this not off topic?

 

[qamar1990]

@Jaggu @Ravi Nair @foxbat @Contrarian @Butchcassidy
can any one translate this?

 

[Butchcassidy]

Those who cannot change their decisions cannot rectify their mistakes either

 

[Pak_Sher]

Pakistanis are discriminating heavily against all non-Muslims.
Pakistani Punjabis are even practicing untouchability against Sikhs
And I never talk without proof.

Pakistani Punjabis. They have been at the top of the race in discriminating against non Muslims in Pakistan. And the discrimination has become literally inhuman. The tribals of Pakistan have been far better on that count when it comes to tolerance, which was rather surprising to know as the impression in India of Pakistani tribals is that of religious jihadis.

But as it turns out from the reports of the refugees coming to India, the tribals are mostly decent and have even fought with the jihadis to protect the non-Muslims living in their areas as long as they could and the Pakistani Punjabis are the ones who lead in the top of the wahabi indoctrination and discrimination against minorities list.

Source 1:
He said during his study, he experienced firsthand some of the discrimination Muslims in Pakistan accord to non-Muslims, especially giving them food or drinks in separate utensils.
Book launch: Rediscovering Pakistan’s pluralistic culture – The Express Tribune


Source 2:
The eateries in the entire bazaar that is frequented by the local Sikhs either plainly refuse to serve them or have separate cups and glasses for them.
Kalyan Singh who has spent almost his entire here can even tell you which rehri wala will serve him and which won't.
View attachment 100918
Day 3: The Sikhs of Nankana Sahab - Pakistan - DAWN.COM




The only reason why Indian Sikhs are treated decently in Pakistan is because Pakistanis know that if something happens to our pilgrims then India would raise hell with Pakistan in addition to Pakistan being maligned globally. Not even mentioning the fact that increased pilgrimage means money for Pakistani locals. But look how they treat Pakistani Sikhs, its because Pakistanis know that they will be able to get away with it and show their selves.

And all of this is the reason why Pakistani Hindus and Sikhs are coming to India in hundreds/thousands each year as refugees.

Actually it is the Indian caste system that discriminates against poor and less fortunate people.