The Kashmir Resolutions - Explanations

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Musharraf’s double standards exposed
S.P. Sharma
Tribune News Service

Jammu, July 16
The double standards of Pakistan on the Kashmir issue got exposed during the Tuesday’s elections for the National Assembly of the Azad Kashmir (***) in which General Pervez Musharraf debarred the pro-independence candidates from contesting the polls.

While General Musharraf was pampering the separatists and pro-independence elements operating on this side of the Line of Control (LoC) in Jammu and Kashmir, he was firm in not allowing their counterparts in the *** to even file their nomination papers.

General Musharraf has on various international platforms, demanded the introduction of “self-rule” on this side of Jammu and Kashmir, but reports said that fingers were being raised on the elections in *** by Sahibzada Ishaq Zaffar, president of the Peoples Party Azad Jammu Kashmir (PPAJK), who has accused General Musharraf of “manipulating the election results”.

India has also said that the elections in the *** lack credibility.

Zaffar has said that General Musharraf was fiddling in the affairs of the ***, particularly at a time when a “broader consensus was required on the Kashmir issue”.

A Pakistan Muslim League leader, Sardar Sarwar Khan, has also accused him of “taking sides” with the ruling Muslim Conference (MC) during the *** elections.

Elections have been held for 40 seats and the schedule for election to the eight special seats would be issued later. The MC has emerged as the single largest party.

Reports indicate that about 50 per cent polling was registered in the ***. This was very low compared to the 70 per cent polling during the recent byelection for four assembly seats in J&K valley.

Doubts were being raised on the fairness of the elections in the *** right from the beginning. Nomination papers of 30 of 31 candidates of the pro-independence J&L Liberation Front of Amanullah Khan were rejected.
The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Jammu & Kashmir

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Pakistan offers to drop demand for Kashmir plebiscite
By Katherine Butler Deputy Foreign Editor
Published: 19 December 2003

The President of Pakistan, Pervez Musharraf, has offered to drop a 50-year-old demand for a referendum on the future of Kashmir and to meet India "halfway" in the search for a peaceful settlement.

The President of Pakistan, Pervez Musharraf, has offered to drop a 50-year-old demand for a referendum on the future of Kashmir and to meet India "halfway" in the search for a peaceful settlement.

Pakistan was prepared, he said, to be "bold and flexible" to resolve the conflict which has brought nuclear-armed India and Pakistan to war twice since 1947 and to the brink of war in 2002.

Pakistan has long held the position that a United Nations-supervised plebiscite should give the people of Indian-ruled Kashmir the right to decide whether their political future lies with India or Pakistan.

UN Security Council resolutions dating from the 1940s support that position but no vote has been organised because of India's objections.

But on Wednesday General Musharraf said: "We are for United Nations Security Council resolutions. However, now we have left that aside. If we want to resolve this issue, both sides need to talk to each other with flexibility, coming beyond stated positions, meeting halfway somewhere. We are prepared to rise to the occasion, India has to be flexible also."

Both sides are aiming to seize the agenda ahead of a summit of south Asian leaders early next month and Pakistan has recently made an effort to ward off growing international impatience.

Pakistan's offer throws the ball into the court of the Indian Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee, who will travel to Islamabad for the summit. But commentators saw the proposal as potentially clearing one of the biggest obstacles to a peaceful outcome.

India has not yet officially responded to the proposal. But J N Dixit, the former Indian foreign secretary and India's former envoy to Pakistan, said the President's offer marked an important shift. "We should be able to respond with flexibility and see if we can find a middle ground," said Mr Dixit.

General Musharraf warned India against failing to seize his offer. "The basis of everything, the basis of a reduction in militancy ... is moving forward on a process of dialogue. If that political dialogue doesn't come about, who wins and who loses? It is the moderates who lose and the extremists who win, and that is exactly what has been happening."

He also attacked India for taking advantage of a recent thaw in relations and a ceasefire to speed up construction of a fence along the Line of Control dividing Kashmir. The diplomatic thaw has restoredtransport links between India and Pakistan.

Mr Vajpayee's room for manoeuvre is limited with elections scheduled for next year. He is not even due to meet General Musharraf for talks at the regional summit but it is expected that the two leaders could meet informally.

General Musharraf said he would not beg for a meeting. "The ball is in his court. If he wants to meet me, I'll meet him. If he doesn't want to meet me, I am not that keen."

Pakistan offers to drop demand for Kashmir plebiscite - Independent Online Edition > Asia

 

[Flintlock]

The very idea of Kashmiris themselves deciding their own future sounds totally ridiculous to the democracy loving Indians. The only explanation is that Indians who have never set a foot in Kashmir seem to be under the impression that they own Kashmir and everyone in it.

Every agreement has been broken by India when it comes to Kashmir. What was the whole point of the 2 nation theory which allowed a Hindu India to exist in the first place? We could have gone back to the pre-British Muslim rule.

Kashmiris were promised a referendum, and thats still what they want today. Indian claims that a referendum isnt possible are baseless and will only further question India's so called democracy.

The idea of Indian democracy is that it stays within the dominion of India.

Kashmiri people are free to decide their future as long as they pledge allegiance to India. They have no valid reason to separate.

They are given cultural, religious, geographical autonomy from the rest of India. They are free to lead their lives in whichever fashion. They are free to develop Kashmir and Kashmiri identity with the broader Indian Identity.
Also, they benifit from Central planning and a free trade with the rest of India.

They are not being oppressed as is claimed by Pakistan. If the Kashmiris want peace, they will get peace the same day.

For the Referendum Issue, kindly read this thread carefully before talking about broken promises.

This applies for not just Kashmiris, but for all Indians. The idea of India is to unite disparate people under a central govt. so that each region can benefit from the other. Every other indian state has realized the advantages of the union, it is only a matter of time before kashmiris integrate as well.

 

[Keysersoze]

Have changed title as it may be seen as a provocation

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Cosmetic changes will make no difference for the perversity and irrationality that prevails.

I am tired of these type of thread that breed despondency and no hope inspite of the great efforts being made by the respective governments to bring sanity and peace.

Plebiscite.

Will Pakistan do so for Balwaristan, Balochistan or Pakhtoonistan?

Just think that over.

Just becaue some pople take up the gun culture and have some demonstrations and become larger than life, that is lapped up by the international media, which has its own axe to grind, means that the people actually want it?

If so, let the media draw the boundaries of the world!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Cosmetic changes will make no difference for the perversity and irrationality that prevails.

I am tired of these type of thread that breed despondency and no hope inspite of the great efforts being made by the respective governments to bring sanity and peace.

Plebiscite.

Will Pakistan do so for Balwaristan, Balochistan or Pakhtoonistan?

Just think that over.

Just because some people take up the gun culture and have some demonstrations and become larger than life, that is lapped up by the international media, which has its own axe to grind, means that the people actually want it?

If so, let the media draw the boundaries of the world!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Keyerose.

The title continuesbto be the same!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Here is the paste and copy

Re: The Kashmir Resolutions - Explanations for Salim

 

[roadrunner]

The troops had to vacate first before the Plebiscite and there is no question of any future tense being there in the resolution.

The troops had to start vacating and then India had to agree to withdraw its troops down to a pre-specified amount (12000-18000). India refused.

"Are being" does not mean "has been".

Damn right! "are being" does not mean "has been. Put that into the resolution and you get "further, that the Pakistani forces have been withdrawn from the State of Jammu and Kashmir, the Government of India agrees to begin to withdraw the bulk of its forces from that State in stages to be agreed upon with the Commission"

This is exactly what the wording should have been IF what you are saying is correct..that Pakistani forces needed to completely vacate Kashmir before the Indian forces had to vacate. You've actually proved yourself wrong better than I could have with that own goal !

Do read the Truce Agreement of the UN and it says

1. (l) As the presence of troops of Pakistan in the territory of the State of Jammu and Kashmir constitutes a material change in the situation since it was represented by the Government of Pakistan before the Security Council, the Government of Pakistan agrees to withdraw its troops from that State.

I thought you inferred that English was your first language!

Salim, I suspect you will regret this also. It says the GoP must AGREE to withdraw its troops from the state. It does not say that it must withdraw them physically. The GoP agreed to this part of the resolution and that is why UNCIP passed some more reaolutions to follow on the demilitarization.

Well, Musharraf said nothing of what you or Indian media think he said. Here's his prime minister at the time saying it..

Pakistan Premier says UN Resolution Key to Kashmir

That's what I referenced isn't it that contradicts what you referenced? Two sides to these stories, don't believe everything you read in rediff (i'm not using Pakistani sources, you're using Indian sources, and then I'm using Pakistani sources in return).

It is pretty clear that Pakistan NEVER implemented the Resolution and has no intention of doing so either!

If you could follow what I've typed, you would realize that India did not agree to reduce its troop number down to 18,000. That is what halted the demilitarization. Only 6,000 Pakistan troops would remain. Perhaps the 7 Indian soldiers :1 Pakistani soldiers does have some truth in it within the beliefs of the Indian ranks after all

I thought you said you knew English well. And of European descent.

Here it proves you know hardly a sausage about the English Language.

"Bobs, your Uncle" is an English phrase and it has nothing to indicate that your Uncle's name is Bob. Learn English, old boy before you are shown up since Pretenders cannot hold a candle in the face of factual truth i.e. you know English![/COLOR]

Thanks for that explanation

 

[roadrunner]

The very idea of Kashmiris themselves deciding their own future sounds totally ridiculous to the democracy loving Indians. The only explanation is that Indians who have never set a foot in Kashmir seem to be under the impression that they own Kashmir and everyone in it.

Every agreement has been broken by India when it comes to Kashmir. What was the whole point of the 2 nation theory which allowed a Hindu India to exist in the first place? We could have gone back to the pre-British Muslim rule.

Kashmiris were promised a referendum, and thats still what they want today. Indian claims that a referendum isnt possible are baseless and will only further question India's so called democracy.

The phrase "the world's largest democracy" is one of the dumbest things coined in history considering the forceful occupation of Kashmir, the neglect of a referendum, and that Dalits are forced to vote for people who will give them the lower end jobs.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Road Runner,

Take a break.

Bone up on English and international affairs and then come back!

That is why Dalits are calling the shots!

Which world are you living in?

Think instead of Balwaristan, Pakhtoonistan and Balochistan for a change!

 

[roadrunner]

Musharraf’s double standards exposed
S.P. Sharma
Tribune News Service

Jammu, July 16
The double standards of Pakistan on the Kashmir issue got exposed during the Tuesday’s elections for the National Assembly of the Azad Kashmir (***) in which General Pervez Musharraf debarred the pro-independence candidates from contesting the polls.

Can you not argue your case from the UN resolutions? You seemed adamant that they were in India's favours and India was not breaking any resolutions. Copying and pasting is just a way of diverting the topic to hide your lack of being able to reply to factual posts.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Can you not argue your case from the UN resolutions? You seemed adamant that they were in India's favours and India was not breaking any resolutions. Copying and pasting is just a way of diverting the topic to hide your lack of being able to reply to factual posts.

I argued in English which is your first language. But then you did not understand inspite of your European ancestry which is not something to be proud of given what the European invaders did to the native folks!

I am not that shallow as you. So, please forgive me if I appear educated and with facts.

 

[roadrunner]

I argued in English which is your first language. But then you did not understand inspite of your European ancestry which is not something to be proud of given what the European invaders did to the native folks!

I am not that shallow as you. So, please forgive me if I appear educated and with facts.

Let's stick to the topic?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Will do when you understand your first language.

Right now, you are at sixes and sevens without a clue as to what you want to say!

You must get comprehensible.