The Kargil Conflict Revisited

[Rafi]

 

[trident2010]

You planned, you attacked, you got kicked, forget it !!

 

[Porus]

Tonight with Moeed (Facts reveals on Kargil War) – 30th January 2013

This 40 minute program has nailed it down. The civilian government came again to rescue the dumb general and saved him from utter humiliation. The dumb general, just like his predecessor zia, remunerated the favour and backstabbed the PM at the earliest possibility. Kargil was an ill-planned adventure of a narcissist and self-flatterer who was obviously unfit for the job he was hired for. If you make an incompetent person the head of a well organized and highly professional institution, he will soon drag it down to his own level.

 

[karan.1970]

Here you go:

Dude.. That's argument going up or down the drain..

In response to your comment in the previous post about argument going down the drain...

 

[Ammyy]

You planned, you attacked, you got kicked, forget it !!

Problem is their army told them totally different thing

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Kargil was not blunder.. It was revenge of Siachen incident and this incident forced India to bow and ask help from america for political solution and Nawaz sharif turned this victory into loss by political bow. This was the best time to ask India to move back from Siachen as original position of Indian troops in 1983 , or either we have Kargil and we will not move back
but Nawaz sharif took pathetic decision and bowed towards demand of India.

 

[karan.1970]

Kargil was not blunder.. It was revenge of Siachen incident and this incident forced India to bow and ask help from america for political solution and Nawaz sharif turned this victory into loss by political bow. This was the best time to ask India to move back from Siachen as original position of Indian troops in 1983 , or either we have Kargil and we will not move back
but Nawaz sharif took pathetic decision and bowed towards demand of India.

Humko maloom hai jannat ki haqueekat lekin, Dil ke behlane ko Ghalib, yeh khayal acchha hai

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Humko maloom hai jannat ki haqueekat lekin, Dil ke behlane ko Ghalib, yeh khayal acchha hai

Poetry ka bathanger bana dya hai, poetry to pelhay sahi ker lo.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

I didn't know pak prime minister can by pass the mighty army chief and other generals and pull the army back from a comfortably winning war zone..and the soldiers followed his orders like sheeps..


Remember that the same prime minister got kicked out of by the army chief few months later.

 

[ejaz007]

Remind me some time to remind you some time how one of the Gujarat Chief Ministers died, after his pilot tried his best to show the PAF hero on his tail that he was flying an unarmed civilian aircraft.

I am sorry to sound harsh, especially to you, since normally you are so fair and even, but this statement turned my stomach.

After 46 yrs, the healing touch: Pak pilot says sorry for mistake - Indian Express

You are comparing wrong situations. Pakistan and India were in a state of war in 1965 and if you read your own link carefully you shall understand what happened.

While when PN Navy plane was shot down Pakistan and India were not in a state of war and the plane was inside Pakistan's own territory.

 

[Mav3rick]

You still blv on lies?

We brought such stuff coz its not possible to bring down enemy on heights.
why cant you vacate siachin from us? coz we are sitting on heights .

You were in no position to hold those peaks coz..

1) supply lines were bombed.

2)Indian navy blocked your entire coastline and you were left with 2-3 days of fuel.

3)You said we cud ask india to vacate siachin? we transport supplies through air not from land route.we could bypass it easily.

4)Vajapayee threatened that we will open western border if pakistanis dint stop such non sense.(to clinton)

Supply lines were bombed? There was no plan for replenishment, the NLI volunteered knowing fully well that they would be on their own as it was a covert op. Indian Navy blocked our coastline?? In which world can Indian Navy even dream of blocking out coastline?? Just as your Navy learned from 1965, we learned from 1971 and were well prepared. We just wanted you to make the first move and become the bad guy instead of us.

The Indian threat of opening the western front was not credible and that was a risk Pakistan was willing to take, Vajpayee then started blackmailing the world that the war could potentially escalate into a Nuclear war and that's what made Clinton do what he did.

Point 5353 you are holding is on LOC not inside indian territory.

Your 300 soldiers got killed in one strike of LGB's by mirages.Now you can judge where your were standing.
if you blv mushy then best of luck.He is an liar and his books are filled with lies and have been exposed time to time.

He said he did coup coz nawaj was giving kashmir to india and FYI,mushy followed same policy with india when he became president.I mean policy of nawaj sharif .

Point 5353 is not the only point we are still holding!

In total we lost 450 odd soldiers, most of them were martyred after they had vacated their positions upon order of retreat. On the contrary, it was the Indian Military that had faced acute shortage of coffins and had to order some from as far as the united states!!!

Furthermore, the most likely outcome of any war is a stalemate as we have learned from the past and nobody is in a position to take Kashmir held by the opposition so the only logical outcome was (and still is) to make the LoC a permanent border and to make peace with that. That's what Musharraf was working on when he came to power.

and it was mushy who begged sharif to go clinton.


2 din ki supply thee fuel ki and soldiers upar baithy mar rahe they and you say we were winning and sharif bogged us down

My friend, if Pakistan was in such a precarious situation, why did you not press home the advantage and demand Azad Kashmir as well? Matter of fact, you could not retake all your posts let alone anything else. You can only dream of forcing Pakistan in to such a position, it is no wonder that you could not cross an inch of border even in 2001/02!

Let me make it as simple as it can be made.....had Musharraf been under any pressure from the Indian side, he merely had to order a retreat and that would have been the end of story. So it was not Musharraf who was under immense pressure but the Indian Primine Minister as Indian Military was looking increasingly inefficient at being unable to retake Kargil peaks despite sending in 7-8 times more soldiers with 10 squadrons of IAF!!

Just imagine if Pakistan had committed to Kargil as India had committed to Siachin, in what dreams would India have been able to force retreat????

 

[GURU DUTT]

Supply lines were bombed? There was no plan for replenishment, the NLI volunteered knowing fully well that they would be on their own as it was a covert op. Indian Navy blocked our coastline?? In which world can Indian Navy even dream of blocking out coastline?? Just as your Navy learned from 1965, we learned from 1971 and were well prepared. We just wanted you to make the first move and become the bad guy instead of us.

The Indian threat of opening the western front was not credible and that was a risk Pakistan was willing to take, Vajpayee then started blackmailing the world that the war could potentially escalate into a Nuclear war and that's what made Clinton do what he did.





Point 5353 is not the only point we are still holding!

In total we lost 450 odd soldiers, most of them were martyred after they had vacated their positions upon order of retreat. On the contrary, it was the Indian Military that had faced acute shortage of coffins and had to order some from as far as the united states!!!

Furthermore, the most likely outcome of any war is a stalemate as we have learned from the past and nobody is in a position to take Kashmir held by the opposition so the only logical outcome was (and still is) to make the LoC a permanent border and to make peace with that. That's what Musharraf was working on when he came to power.



My friend, if Pakistan was in such a precarious situation, why did you not press home the advantage and demand Azad Kashmir as well? Matter of fact, you could not retake all your posts let alone anything else. You can only dream of forcing Pakistan in to such a position, it is no wonder that you could not cross an inch of border even in 2001/02!

Let me make it as simple as it can be made.....had Musharraf been under any pressure from the Indian side, he merely had to order a retreat and that would have been the end of story. So it was not Musharraf who was under immense pressure but the Indian Primine Minister as Indian Military was looking increasingly inefficient at being unable to retake Kargil peaks despite sending in 7-8 times more soldiers with 10 squadrons of IAF!!

Just imagine if Pakistan had committed to Kargil as India had committed to Siachin, in what dreams would India have been able to force retreat????

Mazrat ke saath sirji im amazed this thread is still running and pakistanies still concinced it was a great tactikal win and all that blah blah but you know it and all the world knows it after kargil a few things which were a joke to mani paksitani think tanks anjd some western symethyisers alike

1. India was able to potray the evil and stupid side of Pakistani Milittarry elite that they can never be trusted and when you trust them they will stab you in the back

2.Most Pakistani Generals were under the imprassion that Indians are baniyas and will never have guts to attack them in tactikalli favourable situation (NLI & so called Mujahideens on Hill tops) but india did attack and killed them all like rats stuck in there holes

3.We indians won a few freinds deu to stupidity of few Pakistani Army generals like (Israel & US) and The best friends dint come to Pakistans rescue

now whether most paksitanies like it or not and no matter how much they try to avade the painfull situation they are right now in they just cant undo the facts on the ground and it seems its becoming a destiny of sorts for the pios people of Land Of the Pure ...sad but true isnt it

 

[Rafi]

Supply lines were bombed? There was no plan for replenishment, the NLI volunteered knowing fully well that they would be on their own as it was a covert op. Indian Navy blocked our coastline?? In which world can Indian Navy even dream of blocking out coastline?? Just as your Navy learned from 1965, we learned from 1971 and were well prepared. We just wanted you to make the first move and become the bad guy instead of us.

The Indian threat of opening the western front was not credible and that was a risk Pakistan was willing to take, Vajpayee then started blackmailing the world that the war could potentially escalate into a Nuclear war and that's what made Clinton do what he did.





Point 5353 is not the only point we are still holding!

In total we lost 450 odd soldiers, most of them were martyred after they had vacated their positions upon order of retreat. On the contrary, it was the Indian Military that had faced acute shortage of coffins and had to order some from as far as the united states!!!

Furthermore, the most likely outcome of any war is a stalemate as we have learned from the past and nobody is in a position to take Kashmir held by the opposition so the only logical outcome was (and still is) to make the LoC a permanent border and to make peace with that. That's what Musharraf was working on when he came to power.





My friend, if Pakistan was in such a precarious situation, why did you not press home the advantage and demand Azad Kashmir as well? Matter of fact, you could not retake all your posts let alone anything else. You can only dream of forcing Pakistan in to such a position, it is no wonder that you could not cross an inch of border even in 2001/02!

Let me make it as simple as it can be made.....had Musharraf been under any pressure from the Indian side, he merely had to order a retreat and that would have been the end of story. So it was not Musharraf who was under immense pressure but the Indian Primine Minister as Indian Military was looking increasingly inefficient at being unable to retake Kargil peaks despite sending in 7-8 times more soldiers with 10 squadrons of IAF!!

Just imagine if Pakistan had committed to Kargil as India had committed to Siachin, in what dreams would India have been able to force retreat????

Totally agree, brah, you hit the nail on the head.

 

[Paan Singh]

Supply lines were bombed? There was no plan for replenishment, the NLI volunteered knowing fully well that they would be on their own as it was a covert op. Indian Navy blocked our coastline?? In which world can Indian Navy even dream of blocking out coastline?? Just as your Navy learned from 1965, we learned from 1971 and were well prepared. We just wanted you to make the first move and become the bad guy instead of us.

The Indian threat of opening the western front was not credible and that was a risk Pakistan was willing to take, Vajpayee then started blackmailing the world that the war could potentially escalate into a Nuclear war and that's what made Clinton do what he did.

Wrong assessment again.

AS per your military obeservers.They never knew that india will respond like this.You can quote them in recent videos.
when it was asked to javed hassan,he dint have any answer on it.This was the preparation level on your part.

Time had now come to put pressure on Pakistan, to ensure that the right message went down to the masterminds in that country. Strike elements from the Eastern Fleet were sailed from Visakhapatnam on the East Coast to take part in a major naval exercise called 'SUMMEREX' in the North Arabian Sea. This was envisaged as the largest ever amassing of naval ships in the region. The message had been driven home. Pakistan Navy, in a defensive mood, directed all its units to keep clear of Indian naval ships. As the exercise shifted closer to the Makaran Coast, Pakistan moved all its major combatants out of Karachi. It also shifted its focus to escorting its oil trade from the Gulf in anticipation of attacks by Indian ships.

As the retaliation from the Indian Army and the Air Force gathered momentum and a defeat to Pakistan seemed a close possibility, an outbreak of hostilities became imminent. Thus the naval focus now shifted to the Gulf of Oman. Rapid reaction missile carrying units and ships from the fleet were deployed in the North Arabian Sea for carrying out missile firing, anti-submarine and electronic warfare exercises. In the absence of the only aircraft carrier, Sea Harrier operations from merchant ships were proven. The Navy also readied itself for implementing a blockade of the Pakistani ports, should the need arise. In addition, Naval amphibious forces from the Andaman group of islands were moved to the western sea-board.

In a skilful use of naval power in the form of 'Operation Talwar', the 'Eastern Fleet' joined the 'Western Naval Fleet' and blocked the Arabian sea routes of Pakistan. Apart from a deterrent, the former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharief later disclosed that Pakistan was left with just six days of fuel (POL) to sustain itself if a full fledged war broke out.

1999 Kargil Conflict

and as per few officers ,Your naval officers applied for vacations during the kargil war.

Point 5353 is not the only point we are still holding!

In total we lost 450 odd soldiers, most of them were martyred after they had vacated their positions upon order of retreat. On the contrary, it was the Indian Military that had faced acute shortage of coffins and had to order some from as far as the united states!!!

Furthermore, the most likely outcome of any war is a stalemate as we have learned from the past and nobody is in a position to take Kashmir held by the opposition so the only logical outcome was (and still is) to make the LoC a permanent border and to make peace with that. That's what Musharraf was working on when he came to power.

Wrong again!!!!!

Your 270 soldiers are buried in india and 300 got killed in one strike of mirages.
As per all officers,your casulties were way higher than 1100 .
Mushy said in interview that 260 are the casualties but in his book,he claimed 470.Who is confused here?

Keep lying and it wont change anything on ground.

Mushy during his tenure never let anybody to talk about kargil and he is still saying that there is no need of kargil commission.
it proves a lot of things.

and i will take words of those retired officers who knows more than any random pdf poster who is in denial.


My friend, if Pakistan was in such a precarious situation, why did you not press home the advantage and demand Azad Kashmir as well? Matter of fact, you could not retake all your posts let alone anything else. You can only dream of forcing Pakistan in to such a position, it is no wonder that you could not cross an inch of border even in 2001/02!

Let me make it as simple as it can be made.....had Musharraf been under any pressure from the Indian side, he merely had to order a retreat and that would have been the end of story. So it was not Musharraf who was under immense pressure but the Indian Primine Minister as Indian Military was looking increasingly inefficient at being unable to retake Kargil peaks despite sending in 7-8 times more soldiers with 10 squadrons of IAF!!

Just imagine if Pakistan had committed to Kargil as India had committed to Siachin, in what dreams would India have been able to force retreat????


India never ceded any part of BD even during 71 war.Even during 65,we got 3 times more land than you took but we went to original positions.

You can search all over internet and show me where indian PM was under pressure.Why we will go under pressure?
when we were bombing on peaks and your casulties were rising and soldiers were on no backup and international pressure is separate..then why?

Only inefficiency from indian side was failure to detect it and sending wrong fighters to the war who were not designed for ground combat and your success was only till that when indians started to bring artillery.

and i will say once again that,india transport facilites through air on siachin and we could do it despite of shelling of highway number 1.

This was told be gen aziz to javed hassan and he ignored it.

so this tells what kind of operation you were preparing

 

[Mav3rick]

I didn't know pak prime minister can by pass the mighty army chief and other generals and pull the army back from a comfortably winning war zone..and the soldiers followed his orders like sheeps..


Remember that the same prime minister got kicked out of by the army chief few months later.

Your second line in itself is the answer to the first line. NS was kicked out because he forced the Military to withdraw from Kargil instead of pressing home the advantage.