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The Kargil Conflict Revisited

Before Kargil Musharraf crossed LoC, spent night in India: aide
PTI
Islamabad, February 01, 2013First Published: 14:19 IST(1/2/2013)
Last Updated: 14:24 IST(1/2/2013)


Weeks before hostilities erupted between Indian and Pakistani troops in the Kargil sector in 1999, Gen Pervez Musharraf crossed the Line of Control in a helicopter and spent a night at a location 11km inside Indian territory, a former aide to the military ruler has said.

Col (retired) Ashfaq Hussain, who was a senior officer in the Pakistan Army's media arm, said Musharraf flew across the LoC on March 28, 1999 and travelled 11km into the Indian side.

Musharraf, who was accompanied by Brig Masood Aslam, then commander of 80 Brigade, spent the night at a spot called Zikria Mustaqar, where Pakistani troops commanded by Col Amjad Shabbir were present.

Musharraf, who was then army chief, returned the next day. Hussain first made the revelation in his book 'Witness to Blunder: Kargil Story Unfolds', which was published in late 2008.

He repeated the assertion last night on a television talk show on the Kargil episode in the wake of Lt Gen (retd) Shahid Aziz's assertion that the intrusions by Pakistani troops were planned by a group of four generals led by Musharraf.

He further said Pakistani troops first intruded into the Indian side of the LoC on December 18, 1998, when captains Nadeem and Ali and Havaldar Lalik Jan were sent on a reconnaissance mission.

"They were never told about the aims and objectives of their mission. Even for a recce, they were not provided any briefing or objectives," he said.

Shortly after this, several units were told to cross the LoC and occupy positions on the Indian side. Several units competed with each other to go further into the Indian side.

The intrusions were spotted by a shepherd who informed Indian troops, he said.

Like the initial reconnaissance mission, there were no aims or objectives set out for the entire Kargil operation, which was masterminded by Maj Gen Javed Hassan, then chief of the Force Command Northern Areas, Hussain said.

Hassan drew up the plan to occupy Indian positions along the LoC and convinced then Rawalpindi Corps Commander Lt Gen Mahmud Ahmad, then Chief of General Staff Lt Gen Mohammad Aziz and Musharraf to back the venture, Hussain said.

Hostilities between Indian and Pakistani troops broke out in early May, over a month after Musharraf crossed the LoC and spent a night on the Indian side.

Besides troops from the Northern Light Infantry, soldiers from 31 Azad Kashmir Regiment, 24 Sindh Regiment, Frontier Force Regiment and artillery units participated in the Kargil operation, Hussain said.

Hussain, who based his book on interviews with officers who participated in the fighting in Kargil, dismissed Musharraf's claim that the operation was a success.

"It was a success only till Pakistani forces came face to face with the enemy. In winter, both sides abandoned their positions under a recognised procedure. Our troops crossed the LoC at a time when the enemy was not present. Our troops were not even informed why they were being sent across the LoC," he said.

"I asked commanding officers and brigade commanders about the aims and objectives of the operation but none of them had answer," he added.

The generals who planned the operation had believed that the Indian side would not detect the intrusions till late May or early June 1999 but their surmise proved to be wrong, Hussain said.

Hussain also dismissed Musharraf's recent assertion that Pakistan had lost only 270 soldiers during the Kargil conflict.
"According to my research, there were over 1,000 casualties on the Pakistani side. The official data (on casualties) was hidden and cannot be accessed," Hussain said.

Referring to the main opposition PML-N's demand for a judicial commission to probe the Kargil conflict in the wake of Lt Gen (retd.) Aziz's revelations, Hussain said any such inquiry panel should seek all reports on the fighting from the army's General Headquarters so that the true figures for casualties could be made public.

Though Aziz has said that information he had gathered suggested that then premier Nawaz Sharif was aware of the Kargil operation, Hussain contended that Sharif only learnt of the intrusions at an army briefing in Rawalpindi on May 17, 1999.

"Our troops crossed the LoC in December 1998 and a lot of things had happened by time Sharif was briefed. Our troops were being relentlessly bombarded (by the Indians)," he said.

Hussain, who wrote the speech that was read by Musharraf on national television after he ousted Sharif's government on Oct 12, 1999, said, "Because of Kargil, democracy (in Pakistan) was derailed for 12 years. After the upcoming general election, parliament should discuss this issue and form a commission to make people accountable or else it (Kargil) will continue to affect future politics."

He said he believed Musharraf overthrew Sharif's government because he wanted to escape a probe into the Kargil episode.Before Kargil Musharraf crossed LoC, spent night in India: aide - Hindustan Times
 
Both side suffered damage. We all know what happened. So question should not be what happened, who faced more damage.
Question should be Why ?
Was Kargil necessary ?
Do Pakistani support this Kargil operation.
Pakistani should not see it as India-Pakistan conflict only. It is also about hundreds of Pakistani soldiers who were killed in this war and they were buried in India. Just think about the families of these soldiers. It's easy to expect a lot from a soldier to sacrifice but their sacrifices should not be taken granted.


Because on these basis we can decide that we ll have peace in future or not .

You are right, it's not the time to think about the hundreds of Pakistani and thousands of Indian soldiers who died fighting for their respective countries, it's not even time to discuss how Indian Military faced severe coffin shortage etc., but rather why Kargil took place and why Siachin took place. Was either a necessity?

Most importantly, is there a way to guarantee peace and if there is one, what is it and why has it not been adopted yet?

yeah these stupid indians ordered the NLI to occupy the deserted post high up on the hills inside the indian territory and then when the pak army occupied these posts the indians as usual back stabbed :disagree:.

Well, in all honestly, the stupid Indians did order their troops to occupy Siachin illegally......did they not? Kargil was a similar operation, the difference being the patriotism of a soldier v/s the tyranny of a politician!!
 
You are right, it's not the time to think about the hundreds of Pakistani and thousands of Indian soldiers who died fighting for their respective countries, it's not even time to discuss how Indian Military faced severe coffin shortage etc.,

Yes.. I fully agree that it is not the time to think about the shame face lie of Pakistan about its military not being involved in the Kargil (which got exposed though via Mushy's phone call that got tapped). Nor is it the time to discuss why Pakistan refused to take back the dead bodies of hundreds of its soldiers (to prop up the Insurgents lie, which anyway was exposed later) who then had to be buried away from their home ground on Indian soil or why it took Pakistan more than 5 years to give gallantry awards to its fallen soldiers and how despite the country's PM admitting that over 4000 Pakistani soldiers died in the battle, its army refused to acknowledge its dead to preserve the false front of lower casualties...

We all need to move on.. :)
 
an "elected" president elected on phony voters and who as looting the country left right and center-----and remember nawaz made him cOAS in the belief that pervez would not opposes nawaz's looting ---it's wonder that nawaz&co were not hanged or guillotined...

It's no wonder, their friends and saviours in Saudi Arabia hold great power because of the oil wealth, the same also carried great responsibility which is severely lacking and so is their character.
 
Yes.. I fully agree that it is not the time to think about the shame face lie of Pakistan about its military not being involved in the Kargil (which got exposed though via Mushy's phone call that got tapped). Nor is it the time to discuss why Pakistan refused to take back the dead bodies of hundreds of its soldiers (to prop up the Insurgents lie, which anyway was exposed later) who then had to be buried away from their home ground on Indian soil or why it took Pakistan more than 5 years to give gallantry awards to its fallen soldiers and how despite the country's PM admitting that over 4000 Pakistani soldiers died in the battle, its army refused to acknowledge its dead to preserve the false front of lower casualties...

We all need to move on.. :)

I guess it's also not the time to be stupid and ignorant by posting why a classified operation was kept on a need to know basis. Nor is it time to discuss how Indian soldiers were orchestrating dramas depicting victories while dressing up their own soldiers in Pak Mil's uniforms and spreading false rumous about Pakistan not taking back their martyred soldiers which got exposed later on. It's also not the time to discuss how Indians had to bury their soldiers in mass graves and how they had to move their dead soldiers without coffins in garbage trucks!! And finally, it's not the time to discuss how shameful Indians acts where when they were awarding posthumous awards to soldiers who were still alive (and who hardly took part in the battles)!!

We all really need to move on, if we can......
 
It's no wonder, their friends and saviours in Saudi Arabia hold great power because of the oil wealth, the same also carried great responsibility which is severely lacking and so is their character.

WTF.... we have more natural wealth than Arabia but we don't hold any such powers...?
 
I guess it's also not the time to be stupid and ignorant by posting why a classified operation was kept on a need to know basis.
:lol: excuses excuses.. Mushy just wanted to hog all the credit and hence kept everyone out of the loop.. Unfortunately has ended up with all the blame ;)

Nor is it time to discuss how Indian soldiers were orchestrating dramas depicting victories while dressing up their own soldiers in Pak Mil's uniforms and spreading false rumous about Pakistan not taking back their martyred soldiers which got exposed later on.

:lol: excuses excuses.. 270 Pakistani graves are still on the Indian side in Kargil.. They must be turning in their graves hearing you say that they are Indians dressed in Pakistani uniforms :)


It's also not the time to discuss how Indians had to bury their soldiers in mass graves and how they had to move their dead soldiers without coffins in garbage trucks!!

Still, they were buried / cremated on their home land.. Not abandoned, denied and left to rot in the enemy land like the NLI jawans who though were fortunate that we buried them with honor under the Pakistani flag


And finally, it's not the time to discuss how shameful Indians acts where when they were awarding posthumous awards to soldiers who were still alive (and who hardly took part in the battles)!!

Still better than handing over the whole country for 8 years to the person who caused such an embarrassment to Pakistan in Kargil that Pakistan's PM had to go grovelling to USA .. :D

We all really need to move on, if we can......
Yes we do ....
 
I guess it's also not the time to be stupid and ignorant by posting why a classified operation was kept on a need to know basis. Nor is it time to discuss how Indian soldiers were orchestrating dramas depicting victories while dressing up their own soldiers in Pak Mil's uniforms and spreading false rumous about Pakistan not taking back their martyred soldiers which got exposed later on. It's also not the time to discuss how Indians had to bury their soldiers in mass graves and how they had to move their dead soldiers without coffins in garbage trucks!! And finally, it's not the time to discuss how shameful Indians acts where when they were awarding posthumous awards to soldiers who were still alive (and who hardly took part in the battles)!!

We all really need to move on, if we can......

why cant the indians be honest --like in east pakistan 90,000 POWs -there were only 55,000 army troops all told there -the indians even counted civilian women who were governemnt employees in their count; the kargil sector is brigade command [maximum 5,000 men] and the whiole NA is FCNA a division command [5 brigades, maxiimum 25,000]; bt all counts only 3+ battalions were directly involved [mountain battalions have only some 700 men authorised strength-usually units are understrength] even if they were reinforced, a maximum of 2,500 men of whom no more than 1,200 would be trench strength -an we know many survived so there is no way 4,000 out of 1,200 could be dead....QED...
 
why cant the indians be honest --like in east pakistan 90,000 POWs -there were only 55,000 army troops all told there -the indians even counted civilian women who were governemnt employees in their count; the kargil sector is brigade command [maximum 5,000 men] and the whiole NA is FCNA a division command [5 brigades, maxiimum 25,000]; bt all counts only 3+ battalions were directly involved [mountain battalions have only some 700 men authorised strength-usually units are understrength] even if they were reinforced, a maximum of 2,500 men of whom no more than 1,200 would be trench strength -an we know many survived so there is no way 4,000 out of 1,200 could be dead....QED...

The figure of 4000 is given by your Prime minister.. Not by India.. India's estimate was about 1000 dead.. But your own PM said that Pakistan lost 4000 men in Kargil fiasco..


http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-2-157244-Kargil-probe-body-had-sought-Musharrafs-court-martial

According to Nawaz Sharif, there were over 4,000 fatalities, while the PML-N White Paper claimed that over 3,000 Mujahideens, officers and soldiers were killed.
 
After breaking peace process Musharaf came in power only to start dialogue with India?
 
The figure of 4000 is given by your Prime minister.. Not by India.. India's estimate was about 1000 dead.. But your own PM said that Pakistan lost 4000 men in Kargil fiasco..

the "prime minister" is a moron with limited IQ who has no knowledge beyond how to rig the rules to steal government money and then buy land overseas--he has never done an honest days work in his life----as imran khan says even in cricket he brought his own umpires! we seen his character in two terms as "pm" and his current role as "opposition".....

given his past behavior, he will sell pakistan to india in return for an [exclusive] dealership for bajaj scooters in pakistan......"business man" indeed ......
 
After breaking peace process Musharaf came in power only to start dialogue with India?

Probably a need for personal glory.. Wanted the peace to be his legacy and not Nawaz Sharif's

the "prime minister" is a moron with limited IQ who has no knowledge beyond how to rig the rules to steal government money and then buy land overseas--he has never done an honest days work in his life----as imran khan says even in cricket he brought his own umpires! we seen his character in two terms as "pm" and his current role as "opposition".....

But he is still living in Pakistan as an active politician. Its Musharraf who has run away and has a warrant in his name for murder charges and has been declared a fugitive by Pakistani courts..
 
Probably a need for personal glory.. Wanted the peace to be his legacy and not Nawaz Sharif's



But he is still living in Pakistan as an active politician. Its Musharraf who has run away and has a warrant in his name for murder charges and has been declared a fugitive by Pakistani courts..

pervez is as big a traitor and idiot as nawaz......
 
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