The Jats of Sindh

[Kataria]

Guys, Swedish, Norwegians and Danish can all understand each other, but their tongues are considered different languages. Similarly, portuguese and Spanish can also understand each other. What distinguishes a dialect from language is literature. If a dialect doesn't have a written literature, it can't be classified as separate. Hence in Punjab, Saraiki and Potohari-Pahari can be considered a separate language as both of them have written literature in the form of Seraiki poetry and Saif-ul-malook(Potohari poetry). Dogri and Hindko should be considered purely dialects of Punjabi as of yet as I'm not aware of any literature written in those languages.

Couldn't find much for Hindko but there is literature in Dogri. Also I don't think linguistic classification should be done based on the amount of literature that's written in a language.

List of Sahitya Akademi Award winners for Dogri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dogri Language Literature,Dogri Language In India,Creative Dogri Literature
From this site:

"The language of the Dogras is spoken in the region which includes parts of three States: the whole of Jammu province south of the Pir Panjal range, parts of Himachal Pradesh (Kangra, Chamba, Kullu, Mandi, Suket), some parts of Punjab (Gurdaspur, Pathankot, Nurpur, Hoshiarpur) and some parts of Pakistan (Shankargarh tehsil of Sialkot).

Dogri belongs to the Indo-European family of languages in India and is derived from Sauraseni Prakrit. With the passage of time, Dogri has gradually absorbed a large number of Arabic, Persian and English words.

The earliest known reference to the Dogri language is to be found in Amir Khusrau's list of Indian languages, which also includes Sindhi, Lahauri, Kashmiri, Dhursamundari, Tilangi, Gujarati, Malbari, Gaudi Bengali, Awadhi and Dehalavi. The existence of Dogri language prior to Khusrau’s lifetime are to be found in certain inscriptions dating from 12th century."

The earliest extant Dogri work is Rajauli, a Dogri translation by Tehaldas from the original Persian work by Bali Ram. The work was translated for Raja Dhyan Singh of Kotla in the latter half of 18th century. Rev. Carey mentioned Dogri in his list of Indian languages in 1916. A Dogri translation of the new testament is said to have been published by Christian missionaries of Sirampur. A few pieces of Dogri poetry of Dattu of second half of 18th century and of Rudradatta, Ganga Ram and Lakkhu of the 19th century are available.Jyotishi Vishveshar translated Lilavati, a Sanskrit work on Mathematics into Dogri in 1873.

It was in the 20thcentury that Dogri writing showed a quick growth in various fields of poetry, prose, novels, short stories, plays etc.

 

[ghoul]

seriki baluch..

Yeah. "Punjabi" in itself isn't spoken in the Sindh Sagar doab. But am not sure if Bhakkar, layyah and Muzaffargarh people consider themselves Seraiki. Baloch are found in P.D.Khan, Khushab and Mianwali too.

 

[dil_dil]

A Khattar I know from Wah consider himself a rajput. And man kha=/=pathan. Most rajputs, awans and baloch in Punjab use khan as a surname.

If you check the article i posted about castes of Pak national assembly. Khattar sole winner from Attock is in different category. There is also category of rajput/jatt like Bhatti, Watto and Khokhar. These three tribes in central punjab claim either jatt or rajput.

Watto of Okara for exemple claim to be jatts.

 

[ghoul]

If you check the article i posted about castes of Pak national assembly. Khattar sole winner from Attock is in different category. There is also category of rajput/jatt like Bhatti, Watto and Khokhar. These three tribes in central punjab claim either jatt or rajput.

Watto of Okara for exemple claim to be jatts.

Yeah in general, they're not rajputs or considered as such but quite a significant percentage of them claim to be rajputs. They're not general rajputs like Chibhs etc though.

 

[dil_dil]

Yeah in general, they're not rajputs or considered as such but quite a significant percentage of them claim to be rajputs. They're not general rajputs like Chibhs etc though.

And whats up with chaudhry rajputs, are alpine rajputs or they also claim different origin depending on area?

 

[ghoul]

And whats up with chaudhry rajputs, are alpine rajputs or they also claim different origin depending on area?

They're true rajputs. They migrated from central Punjab a few centuries ago and are a sub-caste of Manj rajputs of central punjab. I don't know why they don't use Raja as a title though.

PS: It's Alpial.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Yeah. "Punjabi" in itself isn't spoken in the Sindh Sagar doab. But am not sure if Bhakkar, layyah and Muzaffargarh people consider themselves Seraiki. Baloch are found in P.D.Khan, Khushab and Mianwali too.

they speak seriki but identify themselves plainly as Baluch..

 

[dil_dil]

They're true rajputs. They migrated from central Punjab a few centuries ago and are a sub-caste of Manj rajputs of central punjab. I don't know why they don't use Raja as a title though.

PS: It's Alpial.

Maybe because they are from central punjab originally. If you check the list and names of rajput winners from central punjab surnames are Rao and Rana. And in some cases not any like Ahsan Iqbal for exemple. While Raja surname is used by Jhelum/Potohar rajputs in list.

Basically it means in central punjab real and powerfull rajputs are with surnames Rana, Rao. While raja surname has been abused by nais/kammis.

@Shahmir kashmir its interesting not a single rajput with Raja surname in central punjab winner list.

 

[dil_dil]

they speak seriki but identify themselves plainly as Baluch..

There are 11 Baloch winners from Punjab, basically more Baloch election winners from Punjab then Balochistan (8). Lol

 

[Shahmir]

Maybe because they are from central punjab originally. If you check the list and names of rajput winners from central punjab surnames are Rao and Rana. And in some cases not any like Ahsan Iqbal for exemple. While Raja surname is used by Jhelum/Potohar rajputs in list.

Basically it means in central punjab real and powerfull rajputs are with surnames Rana, Rao. While raja surname has been abused by nais/kammis.

@Shahmir kashmir its interesting not a single rajput with Raja surname in central punjab winner list.

Because the title used by Rajputs in central punjab is Rana, while Rao or Rai is mostly used by rajputs of south punjab. Raja was used only for nai barber which I thought is somehow a cool way to address some nai barbers in gujranwala, only recently I found that raja is used as title by pothohari rajputs, though I remember I used to think why Rameez raja cricketer of pakistan use "raja" as his surname perhaps he was from pothohar and rajput.

 

[ghoul]

Maybe because they are from central punjab originally. If you check the list and names of rajput winners from central punjab surnames are Rao and Rana. And in some cases not any like Ahsan Iqbal for exemple. While Raja surname is used by Jhelum/Potohar rajputs in list.

Basically it means in central punjab real and powerfull rajputs are with surnames Rana, Rao. While raja surname has been abused by nais/kammis.

@Shahmir kashmir its interesting not a single rajput with Raja surname in central punjab winner list.

Maybe nais and kammis from Potohar/AJK region migrated to central punjab for economic reasons and tried to pass themselves off as rajputs, but local people caught their bluff and hence the word raja started getting associated with nais? The real Rajas in Gujrat, I doubt, are considered Kammis and nais. And in Potohar and AJK any rajput tribe can use the raja title hence I'm surprised alpials don't use it. I don't know much about them though.

 

[dil_dil]

"more well built" "fair complexioned"

These are all racist expressions

Revealing the script of the Pakistani SSG's 'Blood Oath'. | Page 8

Lol just read your post

Maybe nais and kammis from Potohar/AJK region migrated to central punjab for economic reasons and tried to pass themselves off as rajputs, but local people caught their bluff and hence the word raja started getting associated with nais? The real Rajas in Gujrat, I doubt, are considered Kammis and nais. And in Potohar and AJK any rajput tribe can use the raja title hence I'm surprised alpials don't use it. I don't know much about them though.

As i wrote before, chibs in kharian tehsil are not considered kammis despite being rajas but people call them chibs. Raja surname is abused by kammis, though there will be genuine rajas in cities. Those who came from Potohar region especially.

Other whise rao, rana rajputs are found all over central punjab villages. Growing up i heard about rajputs but didnt knew raja, rao, rana, rai are supposed to be rajput surnames. There are rana rajputs in our village and they are not kammis.

 

[Psycho Pakistani]

@oye_natta , in today's Bolta pakistan tv program , the anchor nusrat javed has revealed that Tahir ul qadri is a fake "Sial" jatt because his family is actually "Tarkhan carpenter" from jhang and he is passing himself fakely as "Sial" jatt, I am not surprised by this as I have seen countless such cases in gujranwala where Nais, tarkhans, darzi etc. use surnames of jatt castes of their former villages. So Tahir ul Qadri is a doubtful "Sial" according to well informed journalist nursrat javed of Bolta pakistan.

Watch from @15:45 onwards

 

[Multani]

Revealing the script of the Pakistani SSG's 'Blood Oath'. | Page 8

Lol just read your post



As i wrote before, chibs in kharian tehsil are not considered kammis despite being rajas but people call them chibs. Raja surname is abused by kammis, though there will be genuine rajas in cities. Those who came from Potohar region especially.

Other whise rao, rana rajputs are found all over central punjab villages. Growing up i heard about rajputs but didnt knew raja, rao, rana, rai are supposed to be rajput surnames. There are rana rajputs in our village and they are not kammis.

what about my post?

@oye_natta , in today's Bolta pakistan tv program , the anchor nusrat javed has revealed that Tahir ul qadri is a fake "Sial" jatt because his family is actually "Tarkhan carpenter" from jhang and he is passing himself fakely as "Sial" jatt, I am not surprised by this as I have seen countless such cases in gujranwala where Nais, tarkhans, darzi etc. use surnames of jatt castes of their former villages. So Tahir ul Qadri is a doubtful "Sial" according to well informed journalist nursrat javed of Bolta pakistan.

Watch from @15:45 onwards

Shahmir Kashmir bhai, Dr Tahir is not a Sial. He is a Kumhar.

 

[Psycho Pakistani]

what about my post?



Dr Tahir is not a Sial. He is a Kumhar.

Not kumhar but your cousin Tarkhan carpenter, we consider tarkhan, lohars and mughals as same in gujranwala