The Jats of Sindh

[ghoul]

Sounds like Saraiki to me.

Yeah I heard before that Potohari and Seraiki have a lot of similarities. Are you a seraiki speaker?

 

[RazPaK]

Yeah I heard before that Potohari and Seraiki have a lot of similarities. Are you a seraiki speaker?

I am Punjabi, that speaks a bit of Saraiki, due to living in South Punjab.

Translate this for me:

Dada kud marein sa bacha.

 

[ghoul]

I am Punjabi, that speaks a bit of Saraiki, due to living in South Punjab.

Translate this for me:

Dada kud marein sa bacha.

No idea. Perhaps "grandpa, why you hit the child"? Lol

 

[RazPaK]

No idea. Perhaps "grandpa, why you hit the child"? Lol

Negative. I guess potohari is diff from Saraiki.

 

[ghoul]

Negative. I guess potohari is diff from Saraiki.

Ofc it is quite different. I just heard there are some similarities. What did it mean? Translate this; "baaoon daada datheya saan".

 

[RazPaK]

Ofc it is quite different. I just heard there are some similarities. What did it mean? Translate this; "baaoon daada datheya saan".

I got no clue dude.

 

[Shahmir]

As for the Chibh dialect in Kharia, it sounds very similar to Jhelum-Mirpur dialect. "Kharna, khar or kharo" for "take" is a very trademark Jhelum and Mirpur word. Maare is used for "I".

This word kharna to "take with" is also used commonly in gujranwala, I think in lahore they use more "Le ke jana" but in gujranwala we use both forms "Le ke jana" and "Kharna" for the english word "to take with".

Sounds like Saraiki to me.

Saraiki does not have any patent over words like "ghinana" or "wanjna" eventhough saraikis like to tell that to every one , these words are in every day use in jhangvi, sargodhvi, chakwali, pothohari, and hindko dialects also. So these words are as much pothohari/hindko/sargodhvi as they are "saraiki".

 

[Shahmir]

Ofc it is quite different. I just heard there are some similarities. What did it mean? Translate this; "baaoon daada datheya saan".

I have problem to make sense of the word "datheya" in this sentence , it is saraiki form of punjabi word "tatheya" which means "fall down" or "brought down" especially used in wrestling terminology.

So the translation would be " I was badly brought down" or "I had badly fallen down". Daada means badly, it is also used in the sense of "being stiff or hard". For example in gujranwala villages poeple use word "daada" in the sense of "stiff or hard", like "Ay amrood barra daada ay" which mean "This Guava is very stiff/hard".

 

[dil_dil]

I found this intersting news about 2008 election winners biraderis.

The 149 members of the National Assembly, who were elected from across Punjab, belong to various castes and tribes. 19 MNAs belong to the Rajput (R) clan; 39 come from Jat (J) tribe; six of Jat/Rajput (Jr); 13 of Syed (S), eight of Qureshi (Q); 15 of Arain (Ar); eight of Awan (Aw); 11 of Biloch (B); six of Kashmiri (K); six of Pathan (P); two of Gujjar (G); two of Abbasi (Ab); five of Sheikh (Sh); two of Ansari (An); two of Dogar (D), one of Mughal; one of Kakkezai (KK); one of Mayo and one each of Khatter and Lahr (local caste) respectively.

Electoral results by caste

On link one can find names and locatios where they won.

 

[dil_dil]

?


It's surprising that "raja" is considered a nai in Kharian. I mean all Chibhs use that title, and the fact that right across the Jhelum river, Gakhars and rajputs start to dominate who are all collectively known as "rajay" or "rajgan". In Faisalabad I heard that raja was used for a barber, but wasn't sure about Kharian. The Chibhs are an influential minority in Gujrat, but they're quite high big shots in Bhimber.

And a few weeks ago, I saw bits of dogri films. The similarity with Potohari was striking! Previously I considered Hindko the closest language to Potohari, but now I think Dogri is actually even closer. Words like "mee" for mennu and "banayeen" for "banaa" "sakine or sakhne" and "ghinsaan and ghin" for "bring" are very common Potohari words which existed in Dogri even. Besides that, the vocabulary was strikingly similar. I was quite surprised. The main difference was the pronunciation. I wonder what are the reasons for such a similarity considering geographical distance. Kangri of Himachal is also similar, and Chibhs only came from Kangra some 500 years ago.

As for the Chibh dialect in Kharia, it sounds very similar to Jhelum-Mirpur dialect. "Kharna, khar or kharo" for "take" is a very trademark Jhelum and Mirpur word. Maare is used for "I".

People call them chibs instead of rajas, its possible they use raja surname themselves. Though i doubt potohari chib villages exist in other parts of Gujrat, because Kharian is near Jhelum maybe thats why.

 

[dil_dil]

This word kharna to "take with" is also used commonly in gujranwala, I think in lahore they use more "Le ke jana" but in gujranwala we use both forms "Le ke jana" and "Kharna" for the english word "to take with".
".

I think trade mark potohari word is achna, acho, gachna. While Khar, kharna, kharo words are used by us as well.

 

[Shahmir]

I think trade mark potohari word is achna, acho, gachna. While Khar, kharna, kharo words are used by us as well.

The word Gachna in pothohari/pahari is a clear adopt from kashur/kashmiri language word "Gachav" for "to go". It could be that word "Achna" might also be from kashur language but I have no evidence for that. But "Gachav" is definitely kashmiri/kashur language word.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Man I don't know where this confusion about Janjuas originate from. They're not at all "mixed tribe". They're quintessentially Potohari rajput and they only intermarry with other rajputs or Gakhars. In my hometown of Jhelum, they're as dominant as Gakhars in terms of the amount of land owned and political influence. They're quite big shots in Kahuta region of Rawalpindi and Muzaffarabad, AJK(where they're known as Khakha rajput) too.

As for our political strength in Potohar, we politically dominate Jhelum and Rawalpindi districts but in Chakwal and Attock, the malik Awans and Khattars dominate population wise and Rajputs are hardly found in those regions. Rawalpindi city itself is a multi-ethnic city, so anyone can win there.



Man some Rajput tribes are quite strong in central Punjab. It's mostly in Gujranwala-Sialkot-Lahore or GT road belt where Jatts dominate, but mostly due to their higher populations. Elsewhere in central Punjab, Rajputs are quite bigshots. Like in Sargodha and Khushab, the Noon and Tiwana rajputs are quite influential and high caste. The wattoos claim a bhatti rajput descent, but am not too sure about them. The bhatti Rais of Nankana sahib are also quite big landlords. In Faisalabad, the Rana rajputs are quite influential and big time into badmaashi sadly. But the difference in Potohar and central plains rajputs is that in Potohar, the Rajputs are big time into blood purely, and the more traditional ones would never marry a jatt or a gujjar, like not even their women. I think it's different in plains rajputs maybe?


It's surprising that "raja" is considered a nai in Kharian. I mean all Chibhs use that title, and the fact that right across the Jhelum river, Gakhars and rajputs start to dominate who are all collectively known as "rajay" or "rajgan". In Faisalabad I heard that raja was used for a barber, but wasn't sure about Kharian. The Chibhs are an influential minority in Gujrat, but they're quite high big shots in Bhimber.

And a few weeks ago, I saw bits of dogri films. The similarity with Potohari was striking! Previously I considered Hindko the closest language to Potohari, but now I think Dogri is actually even closer. Words like "mee" for mennu and "banayeen" for "banaa" "sakine or sakhne" and "ghinsaan and ghin" for "bring" are very common Potohari words which existed in Dogri even. Besides that, the vocabulary was strikingly similar. I was quite surprised. The main difference was the pronunciation. I wonder what are the reasons for such a similarity considering geographical distance. Kangri of Himachal is also similar, and Chibhs only came from Kangra some 500 years ago.

As for the Chibh dialect in Kharia, it sounds very similar to Jhelum-Mirpur dialect. "Kharna, khar or kharo" for "take" is a very trademark Jhelum and Mirpur word. Maare is used for "I".

Khattars also dominate some places in attock ... Also not many marry outside their caste even in central punjab.. infact the ones who do are looked down upon..

 

[dil_dil]

Yes second video is standard dogri spoken in jammu city, off course in villages they would speak more rough form of dogri. One family in our street are settlers from a village of Shakargarh near border area with jammu and they nearly speak standard dogri language while talking to each other. the video that I shared about sharakgarh is perhaps a village much farther away from border that is why it is more in line with punjabi but with dogri accent.

I just expected Dogri to be hard to understand, but its not.

 

[Shahmir]

I just expected Dogri to be hard to understand, but its not.

Yes dogri is very easy to understand for any pure theith punjabi speaker. In jammu and udhampur district they speak dogri like the above video but as one enters in dodha districts then dogri starts merging into kashur/kashmiri language in Ramban/bhadarwa area and further north of doda in kishtwar area people speak pure kashmiri/kashur language. Doda area of Jammu region in IOJK is very interesting from linguistic point of view.

This is mixed dialect spoken in bhadarwah which is mix of dogri and kashmiri/kashur, a quite complicated dialect indeed