The Iraqi Armed Forces

[Aestu]

Egypt, Syria, Algeria and Iraq aren't the average Arab except Iraq fail victim to Saddam regime who were caring only and only for his rule other wise Iraqis were the toughest equation.

So, besides those four, who is the "average Arab"? Lebanon? Jordan? Tunisia? Kuwait?

What all Arab forces have in common are the factors I listed. Shiny toys will not change what are fundamentally cultural problems - that is my point here.

Just to remind you Iraqis preserved Damascus from the Israeli invasion in 1973 and Iraqis now helping to preserve Damascus from Takfirees.

Ahaha. Is that what they tell you? Even al-Jazeera ("The Crossing") agrees the IDF crushed the Iraqi reinforcements, who arrived late and in a shambles for logistical reasons. But even if the IEF was fully prepared, they likely would have fared no better than they did against Americans or Persians when they were fighting in their own backyard.

Israel didn't seize Damascus because doing so would have been contrary to their goals. There's no question there was nothing between the IDF and the city. Damascus was heavily shelled during the war, mostly to debunk the claim you are trying to make.

 

[MICA]

sorry for interrupting you @Aestu but which war USA won beside world war II with other tons of allies ?

 

[Aestu]

sorry for interrupting you @Aestu but which war USA won beside world war II with other tons of allies ?

The Gulf War and Korean War - further back the wars with Spain and Mexico.

Arguably, the US' greatest military achievement is having such total dominance that it seldom needs to fight at all.

 

[Hell NO]

The Gulf War and Korean War - further back the wars with Spain and Mexico.

Arguably, the US' greatest military achievement is having such total dominance that it seldom needs to fight at all.

Oh great lord of bull**it valley.
tell us more about the dominance that made America seldom needs to fight.
 America Has Been At War 93% of the Time – 222 Out of 239 Years –
Since 1776  :  Information Clearing House - ICH
List of wars involving the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Korean War victory really!!! Then why do we have north and south Korea.

 

[MICA]

The Gulf War

ofc lol

i Can't think of a single war US participated alone and had a clear victory , sorry man but you are criticizing us for a mistake which you fall into a lot with your much better huge Capabilities , and october war 19973 aka yum kippur war , what was our purpose of the war ? to take back the land "Sinai" and we got it , so that's a victory for me

 

[Aestu]

You are confused.

The US allowed the DPRK to continue to exist for the same reason Israel gave back the Sinai after a war it won and for the same reason it chose not to seize Damascus, and also for the same reason the US has such a long list of allies even though its own forces do substantially all the fighting. If the West worked the way the Arab world does, the way you think things should work, with the stronger side giving no quarter to the weaker, then no one would willingly fight at our side, and there would be no peace.

Let's say the US kept fighting instead of accepting the armistice that established the DPRK as a fact of life for the next 65 years. Then we would also have had to fight China, because they wanted a buffer state on the Korean Peninsula (and still do). We would have won anyway because we were so much stronger. But what would really be accomplished by fighting all the way to China, maybe even into China itself, rather than accepting what has become the status quo?

Let's say Israel held onto the Sinai rather than bartering it for a peace treaty Egypt didn't want to sign before the Yom Kippur War. What would that accomplish? How would it benefit Israel to be in a continued state of hostilities with Egypt? How would it benefit Israel to seize Damascus? Why not bombard it to show they have the power, then back off and allow them to continue to exist as they do?

Finally, what does it prove that we have so many allies willing to fight alongside us: that we are strong, or that we are weak? If we were weak then why would others willingly fight alongside us? If the US had no allies, do you really think Iraq would have won? And if you don't actually think that, or are in fact stupid enough to believe it, then what are you even babbling about? Maybe that's your problem right there?

All you are really proving is that the Western idea that peace is a desirable end unto itself is an alien concept to Arabs. You see someone settle for less than the whole enchilada and assume it is because they are weak because the notion of peace as a desirable end unto itself is alien to you. This is also why your people are weak and always will be. It's like the well scene from Lawrence of Arabia.

 

[Ceylal]

egypt has 200+ F-16s along with AWACs they will eat your entire fleet for breakfast

200 trabant against 150 plus rolls royce..The SU 30 by itself is an Awac...We have a long tradition in aviation , our first fighter pilots were trained in 1952...Egypt has nothing in her arsenal that can be threat to Algeria, despite he boasted that he can own Algeria in 3 days...He can't even subdue a band of ISIS thumbing their a noses at him, how can pretend to invade Algeria that defeated a world power assisted by NATO.

the only advantage your Su-30s have over F-16 is the radar , AWACs compensates for that
meaning in BVR combat you don't stand a chance

Egyptian F16 have a magnifier glass as heads up display, they have no BVR capabilities, no EWR suite, no advanced missile beside a sidewinder...their MIG 21 are lot better..and you are talking out of your @ss, even Egyptian than know about military and know about their army are silent..

when I say experience , I am talking about decades of experience in F-16s while your pilots are new to their Su-30s

For your knowledge our pilots are schooled , in both school of thought, the Western and Eastern...American most prestigious fighting pilot schools are very familiar with the caliber of our pilots since most of them during their formation pass thru there...
anything else, you want me to address ?

 

[Aestu]

200 trabant against 150 plus rolls royce

I feel like pointing out here that the Trabant is an amazing frame for stock racing or EV conversions because of its light weight and ease of customization. People do marvelous things with them. I've been trying to buy (at least) one up, in fact. If the Trabant nT ever actually makes it to market, I'll be first on the waiting list.

A good conversion from a crappy stock model is always better than a mediocre stock model. It's true of jets, tanks and automobiles as well. Just go look at the Israelis and their crazy F-16I and "Tiran" custom builds.

 

[Ceylal]

I
A good conversion is always better than a crappy stock model. It's true of jets, tanks and automobiles as well.

I am sure that you are talking about the hardware that arab armies are getting from the desert of Arizona , and the junk yards of Georgia...

 

[Aestu]

(edited my post)

I am sure that you are talking about the hardware that arab armies are getting from the desert of Arizona , and the junk yards of Georgia...

Sure, why not? Israel won wars with old Shermans and Centurions with some creative upgrades. Iran beat Iraq by doing the same with their ancient F-5s and F-14s. Iran converted a fuel tanker to a VSTOL carrier and are now the only Gulf state with their own carrier. The US' B-52s are already (much) older than the pilots who fly them and are slated to remain in service until 2044.

It all comes down to creativity and having indigenous innovators - something the Arab world sorely lacks.

 

[Ceylal]

(edited my post)

It all comes down to creativity and having indigenous innovators - something the Arab world sorely lacks.

I agree with you, but North Africa is Berber not Arab, we are different kind of animals....

sorry for interrupting you @Aestu but which war USA won beside world war II with other tons of allies ?

The US has never a war alone or with allies against an enemy that can fight...WW2 was won by the Russians, Vietnam won, Iraq post Saddam won, Afghanistan won too..Beside, Panama, Antigua, haiti... Every thing that was overtaken by the US military ended up in a total loss...Maybe their reason is not to win , but to punish

 

[Malik Alashter]

I agree with you, but North Africa is Berber not Arab, we are different kind of animals....

Bro @Ceylal trust me there is no difference at all between humans it's all about your choices and conditions!.

 

[Ceylal]

Bro @Ceylal trust me there is no difference at all between humans it's all about your choices and conditions!.

There is a difference in culture..We , what makes our strength among other things, are loyal to the land, ie to the state in which we live, middle easterners are first and foremost loyal to their tribe and the results of such a strong tribal allegiance we are seeing it in the divide between shia an sunni, kurd and Arab with translate all the way to government, that is other reason we see the rise of a Sistani like with their own militia and their own agenda... We don't have that...Country comes first..

 

[Aestu]

The US has never a war alone or with allies against an enemy that can fight...WW2 was won by the Russians, Vietnam won, Iraq post Saddam won, Afghanistan won too..Beside, Panama, Antigua, haiti... Every thing that was overtaken by the US military ended up in a total loss...Maybe their reason is not to win , but to punish

Bolded that part for you. In point of fact, it's never happened. The US military has never "overtaken" anything. In both Vietnam and Iraq, the US decided to put puppet regimes in power rather than take direct military control of the country. Those regimes crumbled on their own - but the US military itself has absolutely never lost a battle or a war since WW2.

The US is hobbled not by inferior war-fighting ability but by its unwillingness to conduct itself as Arabs and other non-Westerners do and simply kill and destroy anything and anyone who doesn't go our way. The US supports despots and evildoers to be sure, but in most cases those despots are inevitably revealed as products of their place and time - Saddam being a good example.

If the US (and Israel) were willing to do what the Arabs did at Hama, or during Black September, or how the Egyptian army conducts itself towards civilians, we wouldn't have these problems. Whether you want to see that as a fault or not is up to you.

Bro @Ceylal trust me there is no difference at all between humans it's all about your choices and conditions!.

Then why do so many Arabs want to live in the West? Why can't Arabs catch up with Israel?

 

[Malik Alashter]

There is a difference in culture..We , what makes our strength among other things, are loyal to the land, ie to the state in which we live, middle easterners are first and foremost loyal to their tribe and the results of such a strong tribal allegiance we are seeing it in the divide between shia an sunni, kurd and Arab with translate all the way to government, that is other reason we see the rise of a Sistani like with their own militia and their own agenda... We don't have that...Country comes first..

Agree to some extent.

the US decided to put puppet regimes in power rather than take direct military control of the country

Thanks that's enough.said.

The US supports despots and evildoers to be sure

I don't know if you aware about what you type or not!?.

but in most cases those despots are inevitably revealed as products of their place and time - Saddam being a good example.

You just said they are despots and evildoers these kind of people regardless their place evil is evil any where every where.

Then why do so many Arabs want to live in the West? Why can't Arabs catch up with Israel?

Because of the US decided to put puppet regimes in power

Source: The Iraqi Armed Forces | Page 125

That's what you said.