The Iraqi Armed Forces

[Malik Alashter]

You think that you are validating your claim that foreigners are responsible for what goes on in your country, but in reality, you're debunking it. If speeches are enough to cause Iraqis to kill each other, that's no one's responsibility but their own as individuals and as a culture - proof they can't handle democracy.

Of course there are laws against hate speech in the US/EU, but if you really want, you can watch whatever you want on YouTube. Ultimately, peace exists because people wish it to. Arab culture struggles with democracy because you don't recognize the concept of personal responsibility.

Sir who said it's only speech, actually it's support by all means of the word " support ".

 

[Aestu]

Sir who said it's only speech, actually it's support by all means of the word " support ".

Millions of Americans own guns. I personally have a Tavor in an electronically controlled case in my den, a HiPoint 9mm next to my bed, a M1911 in my car, and a Taurus Curve I keep on my person. We have more guns than people in this country. If you really want to buy a M67 or M80, they're widely available on the black market in the US and it isn't hard to find someone selling them. We don't see them go off...ever, come to think of it, actually.

In the US, we have debates all the time about the Second Amendment and what it means to us, but ultimately, it really and truly is the case that the only person who bears responsibility for what happens when a gun is fired is the man who pulled the trigger.

I have to offer the proviso that even I think we as a nation have way too many guns and would be better off without them. I support gun buybacks in the US because I think disarming would make us a more moral society. That said, the intent of gun control is not to protect us from civil wars started by ordinary citizens, but mentally ill freaks and petty criminals killing people at random. That isn't the case in Iraq.

The FBI and other security institutions do have superior firepower, but so do the Iraqi government forces. The difference is that our culture recognizes personal responsibility as the foundation for lawful institutions. The basic issue is and has always been that Iraqis do not want to be Westernized. I've heard this from every US Army trainer I've spoken to.

Arabs do not identify with the kind of moral and legal inhibitions that keep us Westerners from murdering each other whenever we have a petty dispute...or watch something provocative on TV. For this reason, they fundamentally oppose the freedoms and the discipline that together form the foundation of democracy.

 

[Malik Alashter]

Iraqis do not want to be Westernized.

And why Iraqis should be I live in the U.S why should I be a copy of you any way that's not the argument.

Sir, you can't equalize between the two nations for the conditions they are facing this is the last time I post on this matter since you lack the basic of understanding the differences and the situation in Iraq.

Iraq was under dictatorship for so long.

those who lost power still strong and they want to rule back at all costs.

as I said there are countries aren't happy with the new kind of regime in Iraq so they support those who wont accept the democracy in Iraq.

Sunnis ruled Iraq for decades and they aren't ready to loose that. I mean the sectarian one of them.

Sunnis are sectarians as the speaker in the video above show but that doesn't mean they are all are sectarians fortunately.

Now without the support of the others we can handle them but still the big question is the west going to stay silent when the shiite lead government crush the insurgency or the west will start targeting our government in the international society like they do now with Bashar?.

 

[Aestu]

And why Iraqis should be

Because you want what we have: strong and stable institutions: our democracy, our economy, our technology, our military.

You refuse to grasp those things are not accidents. They aren't gifts from G-d. They are the end product of our outlook, our values, our way of life. If your people want them, then they must Westernize. It is that simple.

I live in the U.S why should I be a copy of you

Because you choose to live here: you want to be part of our national enterprise. Americanization is part of becoming an American. It's the same for everyone who comes here.

Your attitude of "I'm going to take my Arab shit to the West and pretend it doesn't stink" is precisely why more and more Westerners in the US, EU and Israel are coming to believe that the only solution to the problems you people bring with you is to expel you all.

Sir, you can't equalize between the two nations for the conditions

A nation is its people. Again with this attitude that reality is arbitrary and it's just a coincidence the Arab world sucks and the West does not.

Iraq was under dictatorship for so long. as I said there are countries aren't happy with the new kind of regime in Iraq so they support those who wont accept the democracy in Iraq. those who lost power still strong and they want to rule back at all costs. Sunnis ruled Iraq for decades and they aren't ready to loose that. I mean the sectarian one of them. Sunnis are sectarians as the speaker in the video above show but that doesn't mean they are all are sectarians fortunately.

You yourself have blamed the words of some idiot in Turkey and arms that are ubiquitous in the US for Iraq's problems. If you, or your people, do not feel ready for freedom, are not ready to, as we say in the US, "play the ball where it lays," then dictatorship it will be.

How else do you decide what people can or cannot listen to because you're worried about how they will react? How else do you restrain large segments of your population with no internal checks from their own tribes? How do you do that without a dictator?

Now without the support of the others we can handle them but still the big question is the west going to stay silent when the shiite lead government crush the insurgency or the west will start targeting our government in the international society like they do now with Bashar?.

Give me a break. Assad is being targeted because he wouldn't stop arming Hezbollah or giving the insurgents in your country sanctuary. To replay that for you, the US is trying to take out Assad because he is the "other" supporting the insurgents against your democracy, and also against the lawful government of Lebanon. Why do you think the US tried to train Iraq's new army?

Iraq's government cannot be brought down "in the international society." After all, the US has been trying that for 35 years now with Iran and for over 60 years with Cuba and North Korea. Iraq's problems are strictly internal, cultural, and nothing else. Not the fault of the US, Israel, or the Bogeyman.

 

[Malik Alashter]

Because you want what we have: strong and stable institutions: our democracy, our economy, our technology, our military.

And you think all that has somethign to do with the west that's totaly wrong because you can have all that without give up your culture it's the same thing happening again but with the Europe 8 centuries ago.

Because you choose to live here: you want to be part of our national enterprise.

you just telling me there is only one culture in the U.S but reality differ Sir this is my culture now when you decide to live in China try to give up your culture.

And in what way our culture or as you call it arab shit hurt you in the US or Europe.Sir you are steaming on the Muslims fortunately most of the people in the west are not like you.

You yourself have blamed the words of some idiot in Turkey and arms that are ubiquitous in the US for Iraq's problems. If you, or your people, do not feel ready for freedom, are not ready to, as we say in the US, "play the ball where it lays," then dictatorship it will be.

How else do you decide what people can or cannot listen to because you're worried about how they will react? How else do you restrain large segments of your population with no internal checks from their own tribes? How do you do that without a dictator?

Are you idiot or you so dummy to understand that media can affect the people decision! who can deny this truth man go watch a movie better than waste your time in here because you are a copy of the wahhbis you deny the common sense!!!!.

Give me a break. Assad is being targeted because he wouldn't stop arming Hezbollah or giving the insurgents in your country sanctuary. To replay that for you, the US is trying to take out Assad because he is the "other" supporting the insurgents against your democracy, and also against the lawful government of Lebanon. Why do you think the US tried to train Iraq's new army?

Replacing Assad with isis is that the solution as you think?. Any sane people would go that way!!!!!.

 

[Aestu]

And you think all that has somethign to do with the west that's totaly wrong because you can have all that without give up your culture it's the same thing happening again but with the Europe 8 centuries ago.

Again... there's that bizarre Arab idea that technology, progress, etc, are purely arbitrary, things that just happen to be there, like the petroleum under your feet.

What happened with the West, since 800 years ago, was that the West's long dark age since the fall of Rome began to end with the development of the cultural ideas I identified. Our culture evolved.

The Arab world's entire problem is that hasn't happened there. The Arab world is still mired in a medieval dark age. They don't want to evolve out of it. They are just obsessed with getting even with those guys on the other side of the hill, or importing the material trappings of the West. It's called the "cargo cult mentality".

You'll know the Arab world is getting better when they drop their obsession with destroying Israel. Do you see that happening in the near future? I don't. Maybe in a few decades...

you just telling me there is only one culture in the U.S but reality differ Sir this is my culture now when you decide to live in China try to give up your culture.

The US isn't China - thank heavens for that! It's a multicultural society, but multiculturalism in the US is a product of a culture bigger than any one culture. That's Americanism for you. If you don't want to Americanize, if you think our country is great for no particular reason, then gtfo, we don't want you here. Like I said, this is why more and more Westerners are coming to believe the only solution is to expel these Arabs who want to live in countries they apparently hate.

And in what way our culture or as you call it arab shit hurt you in the US or Europe.

Everything you just said.

Your backward mentality.

Your inability to recognize and respect the reasons that our society is one you want to live in.

Your inability to understand progress and wealth as products of human effort, the effort of a culture, and not just something we got by saying "insha'allah" over and over again.

Your efforts to use our democratic and multicultural institutions contrary to their purpose and continued existence, to make them more similar to those in the trash heap of a country you left behind.

And last but not least, the poverty and violence you people bring with you as a RESULT of your mentality.

Sir you are steaming on the Muslims fortunately most of the people in the west are not like you.

The Westerners who would not agree with me are the ones who don't understand Arabs or other Muslims and have probably never tried to talk to them or read about their culture in a meaningful way. That is beginning to change as the problems you people bring with you are becoming more visible in our society.

Replacing Assad with isis is that the solution as you think?. Any sane people would go that way!!!!!.

I did not say that. I'm merely pointing out that Assad is hardly the hero here and that it's not the fault of the US or ISIS that Iraq is unable to Westernize. The US and/or ISIS are not responsible for the cultural forces that, without a dictator to keep order, are driving Iraq into anarchy.

Are you idiot or you so dummy to understand that media can affect the people decision! who can deny this truth man go watch a movie better than waste your time in here because you are a copy of the wahhbis you deny the common sense!!!!.

Go read the US Constitution, Bill Of Rights, First Amendment. Go read it, like, 10 or 20 times, then explain to me why what you just said proves democracy is something Arabs JUST CAN'T HANDLE!!!

 

[Malik Alashter]

Again... there's that bizarre Arab idea that technology, progress, etc, are purely arbitrary, things that just happen to be there, like the petroleum under your feet.

Source: The Iraqi Armed Forces | Page 127

Well that just in your brain or dream I'm arabic and I lived and grew up their I've never heard that but what I heard is that they want an opportunity.

The US isn't China - thank heavens for that! It's a multicultural society, but multiculturalism in the US is a product of a culture bigger than any one culture. That's Americanism for you. If you don't want to Americanize, if you think our country is great for no particular reason, then gtfo, we don't want you here. Like I said, this is why more and more Westerners are coming to believe the only solution is to expel these Arabs who want to live in countries they apparently hate.

Well that's your version of Americanization you can't impose your version on me or any one else keep yours to you let me tell you this you are a walking peace of hate.

Your inability to recognize and respect the reasons that our society is one you want to live in.

See I lived in this country more than 17 years so how come I'm unable to recognize and respect that our society is one really pathetic.

The Westerners who would not agree with me are the ones who don't understand Arabs or other Muslims and have probably never tried to talk to them or read about their culture in a meaningful way. That is beginning to change as the problems you people bring with you are becoming more visible in our society.

And you talked to Muslims and you read!! do you remember when I told you, you are perfect copy of the Wahhabis and I swear most of the american European that I talk to are so different than you.

You and your like are the reason the world in chaos your hate and your inability to accept the others are the biggest problem the human face today in the 21st century and we still have you that just a sign of the collapse of the civilization.

without a dictator to keep order, are driving Iraq into anarchy.

Please notice that Iraq affairs are not of your business so don't bother about it.

o read the US Constitution, Bill Of Rights, First Amendment. Go read it, like, 10 or 20 times, then explain to me why what you just said proves democracy is something Arabs JUST CAN'T HANDLE!!!

First of all you need to grasp the common sense.

In Iraq today there is a freedom of speech there are many tv channels that attack the government without fear of been arrested and tortured.

there are many newspapers that criticize the government there is free access to youtube facebook you can curse andcuss the top politicians without the fear you get arrested and tortured.

I'm not talking about that certainly but I'm talking about supporting politicians who works against the state and call for destroying the new democratic regime in Iraq.

 

[Madali]

Arabs do not identify with the kind of moral and legal inhibitions that keep us Westerners from murdering each other whenever we have a petty dispute...or watch something provocative on TV. For this reason, they fundamentally oppose the freedoms and the discipline that together form the foundation of democracy.

I didn't read the full thread, but just saw that sentence in your post.

The amount of school shootings that happen in USA is completely unique to you guys. We never face such incidents in the east. Such a violent culture does not exist for us.

You have a very violent gun culture.

From a CNN article,
"Using numbers from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, we found that from 2001 to 2013, 406,496 people died by firearms on U.S. soil."

That's a huge number.

If there are no more violent conflicts, it is because current circumstances doesn't call for it, not because Americans are peaceful, responsible people. In your own civil war, estimates are 750,000 people died!
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/science/civil-war-toll-up-by-20-percent-in-new-estimate.html?_r=0

The population of USA at that time was estimated at 30 million. That's 2.5% of the population! To put that in perspective, if the population was the same as today (319 million), it would be 8 million dead.

 

[Aestu]

The amount of school shootings that happen in USA is completely unique to you guys. We never face such incidents in the east. Such a violent culture does not exist for us..

Completely not true. The difference is that those kinds of incidents are freak occurrences here, and so heavily reported by the media. We do not have a normalized Kalashnikov culture. How many Arabs have died by violence other than warfare in the last 20 years?

From a CNN article,
"Using numbers from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, we found that from 2001 to 2013, 406,496 people died by firearms on U.S. soil."

That's a huge number.

It's also a lie no matter who says it. The population of the US is 320 million. By that measure, one in 800 people would die of gun violence over the course of twelve years. One in 120 people, or nearly 1% of the population, would die of gun violence over the course of their lifetimes. It's bullshit.

If there are no more violent conflicts, it is because current circumstances doesn't call for it, not because Americans are peaceful, responsible people. In your own civil war, estimates are 750,000 people died!

But why don't they?

The American Civil War ended, there was a national reconciliation, and things moved on. We didn't descend into the kind of chronic low-level violence that characterizes every country with large numbers of Sunni Arabs.

Well that just in your brain or dream I'm arabic and I lived and grew up their I've never heard that but what I heard is that they want an opportunity.

Opportunity. Define opportunity in this context. What is it they want?

Well that's your version of Americanization you can't impose your version on me or any one else keep yours to you let me tell you this you are a walking peace of hate.

You hate our country, we hate you. You think one is fair and the other is not. Arab mentality at work.

See I lived in this country more than 17 years so how come I'm unable to recognize and respect that our society is one really pathetic.

So you choose to live in a society for what it offers yet cannot see why it does. There's no teaching a fool. Arab mentality at work.

And you talked to Muslims and you read!! do you remember when I told you, you are perfect copy of the Wahhabis and I swear most of the american European that I talk to are so different than you.

They are fools who project their own values onto you. That will change as Muslims get more exposure in the West, as they have in Europe.

You and your like are the reason the world in chaos your hate and your inability to accept the others are the biggest problem the human face today in the 21st century and we still have you that just a sign of the collapse of the civilization.

Go tell that to your fellow Iraqis. Everything is everyone's fault but your own. Arab mentality at work.

Please notice that Iraq affairs are not of your business so don't bother about it.

Says the guy convinced they're entirely the US's fault. Make up your mind.

I'm not talking about that certainly but I'm talking about supporting politicians who works against the state and call for destroying the new democratic regime in Iraq.

So what's your solution, shut them down?

 

[Ceylal]

Do you not realize the United States invented the airplane?

You know the industrial revolution took place in England not in the US. All the US military industrial accomplishment, past and present were made possible on what the British gave us..It is not a fallacy, you need to look into it...

 

[Aestu]

You know the industrial revolution took place in England not in the US. All the US military industrial accomplishment, past and present were made possible on what the British gave us..It is not a fallacy, you need to look into it...

It is indeed a fallacy for the reason I stated. In point of fact the US invented the airplane, it was not "given" to us by England, and your basic premise is that technology just sprouted from the earth of England like a mushroom on a wet lawn. By way of example, how would you fit into this context the French and German inventions of lighter-than-air craft and germ theory?

Why was England first? Why did other Western countries make major developments about that time? Why do some countries like Israel and India keep making progress independently and other countries like Egypt and Syria do not?

 

[Ceylal]

It is indeed a fallacy for the reason I stated. In point of fact the US invented the airplane, it was not "given" to us by England, and your basic premise is that technology just sprouted from the earth of England like a mushroom on a wet lawn. By way of example, how would you fit into this context the French and German inventions of lighter-than-air craft and germ theory?

No, I didn't say that..All I said, the the British contribution to the military industrial development has been tremondeous..You need to do some research, and you found out that what I am exchanging you is true..

Why was England first? Why did other Western countries make major developments about that time? Why do some countries like Israel and India keep making progress independently and other countries like Egypt and Syria do not?

I talked about England because she did the most, Germany was too an industrial giant, and their acquired "contribution" ended the war with Japan..For Syria and Egypt, you need to ask PDF's from those countries...I am curious too..

 

[-SINAN-]

Guys, there are news in the Turkish media that 1 Turkish battalion deployed in Musul/Iraq with heavy weapons. It's being said that Turkish soldiers will battle ISIS for the control of Musul. Anyone heard about this news ?

Musul'a eğitim amaçlı Türk askeri

 

[Ottoman_cocuğu]

Guys, there are news in the Turkish media that 1 Turkish battalion deployed in Musul/Iraq with heavy weapons. It's being said that Turkish soldiers will battle ISIS for the control of Musul. Anyone heard about this news ?

Musul'a eğitim amaçlı Türk askeri

I've heard that they are going to only train peshmerga's and that the weapons brought there are to protect the base.

 

[T-55]

Iraqi helicopters.