The Indian within

[SarthakGanguly]

Actually being an opportunist is a compliment to be a politician.
Despite coming from an bacward caste, poor background, he stands ready to take the helm of India.
You have to be ruthless, Machiavellian and tough to survive and thrive in Indian politics.
He is still the best candidate for Prime Minister-ship.

You got it right

Indian middle class is becoming less liberal and getting seduced by Hindutva extremism. The difference is that Indians are smart enough to couch their fanaticism in politically correct terms like "cultural chauvinism", "anti communalism" and "atheist Hinduism".

Umm - not really. The only difference is that previously one used to be ashamed of being a practicing Hindu or a Buddhist. It was somehow - uncool. Besides not even the RSS talks about a Hindu World or making India non Hindu free etc. The dharmic people of the country are owning up to their cultural affiliations. That's all.

The Author is following American procedure. Neo-Cons are hawks, never Fanatics.

That depends how you see them. I can say safely that at least the author considers the 'Muslims' as fanatics. Hindu right wingers are not even human - just hawks who prey on the weak and dying. (How was this? )

@Aeronaut - Kashmir is India. And the author did mention that the Western Pakistan has more similarities with Afghanistan.
But I agree the love making folks on both sides(I have nothing against them) are very naive just as @Ravi Nair said. South India, Kashmir, the North East gets cut off from the narrative so easily. As you summed up in the end correctly - it is blown out of proportion.

 

[Developereo]

u r free to dissect n analyze Modi but u like many foriegners merely heard propoganda about him/RSS,most indians also dont know the ground reality,

so feel free.

His statements when he visits the eastern States are a matter of public record.

 

[Roybot]

Hes focusing on the Elite....I'm talking about the Country - If to focus on the 'similarities' calls for white-washing over entire swathes of the Country & still assert we're being representative here then good luck to him !

I see no reference to "elites".

One must first analyse the extent of similarity between Indian and Pakistani cultures. Culture refers to societal ideas, customs and social behaviours and encapsulates the domains of art, dress, language, food, family structures, religious practices, festivals, traditions, values etc. There is admittedly enormous cultural diversity within both countries and sweeping comparisons between the two cultures are inappropriate.

 

[Robinhood Pandey]

Most of these positions are appointed, not elected.

As for electing a Sikh, Pakistan also elected a woman before the US did. Would anyone seriously suggest that Pakistan offers better rights to women than America does?

Appointed by the elected members of the parliament. . so yes you are partially true in that . . .

and the example was just to show you that complexities of Politics and not that simplified as you are trying to portray ..

 

[bronxbull]

@Developereo Really?

Because Indians in the North-East and the Southern parts dismiss the aloofness of the Delhi Elite.

Also another Modi tactic, to berate the English speaking, colonised Brown Sahibs in charge of the country and speak for the 'common' Man, whilst taking the help of the captains of industry.

he talks to everyone and he also communicates efefctively with the masses,i dont see why that's bad?

educated people become colonised brown sahibs when they behave like idiots,no educated indian man gets mocked if he is a patriot and does the right things.

Subramanian Swamy/Arun Shourie are highly educated people but they didn't lick establishement shoes and they are more educated/sophisticated than most wannabes.

 

[PoKeMon]

You are right that religion is becoming unfashionable. That is why I pointed out that Hindutva proponents are promoting Hinduism as a cultural construct. According to them, everyone in India is a Hindu, almost by definition.

But then what is the problem? I wont mind being called a pig if a pig means a nice, innocent and honest person. Will you?

Its not a battle of semantics to say the least.

 

[bronxbull]

Pakistani Punjab is very diverse... some parts are almost Identical with Indian Punjab (if you exclude religion) while others are very different.

yeah Punjab as such is a huge place but regardless,for outsiders it is very small,the differences.

His statements when he visits the eastern States are a matter of public record.

please quote the statements.

 

[livingdead]

Bangladesh & Us don't have any Cultural Similarity !

A personal connection is one thing but saying 'Pakistan' has very similar Culture to India is something quite different because for starters it doesn't & besides there really is no 'Pakistani Culture' & no 'Indian Culture' - Is there ?

I have a personal connection with Indians on this very forum & I do feel a sense of affinity with them & thats the commonality I'm talking about !

true, there is no single 'indian' culture, but I would request you to refer to my last post about what we are contrasting against? The nearest one of pakistanis are iranians, arabs, afganis and Indians.. and there is a high probability that the cultural practices do not abruptly stop near modern boundaries of nation states.

 

[Armstrong]

I see no reference to "elites".

You quoted my first post without even grasping what I was saying !

He has taken Karachi & Lahore & more so the bourgeoisie of these two cities as representative of what constitutes as Pakistani Culture when it is not so !

Its as absurd as me saying because the Hazaras speak a dialect of Persian - Pakistanis are culturally similar to Iranians - We're not !

We've got influences from all three of those regions - South Asian, Central Asia & the Middle East but there isn't any part of Pakistan that has more or less the same culture as their Indian or Iranian Counterparts - Not even Punjab !

 

[Chronos]

You quoted my first post without even grasping what I was saying !

He has taken Karachi & Lahore & more so the bourgeoisie of these two cities as representative of what constitutes as Pakistani Culture when it is not so !

Its as absurd as me saying because the Hazaras speak a dialect of Persian - Pakistanis are culturally similar to Iranians - We're not !

We've got influences from all three of those regions - South Asian, Central Asia & the Middle East but there isn't any part of Pakistan that has more or less the same culture as their Indian or Iranian Counterparts - Not even Punjab !

I understood what you are saying.

At this point, it is better to leave the debate, as we will go in cirlces

 

[Armstrong]

true, there is no single 'indian' culture, but I would request you to refer to my last post about what we are contrasting against? The nearest one of pakistanis are iranians, arabs, afganis and Indians.. and there is a high probability that the cultural practices do not abruptly stop near modern boundaries of nation states.

Of course they don't thats why I say that there are similarities between some Pakistanis & some Indians as there are between some Pakistanis & some Afghans & some Pakistanis & some Iranians but there isn't an 'India', 'Afghanistan' or an 'Iran' within me whatever my ethnic affilations maybe - Pakistan has uniquely evolved into a distinct cultural & ethnic entity because of its position & because of the History associated with it !

But Indian Punjab & Pakistani Punjab even before the Partition had a divergence of Cultural & Linguistic practices & norms - the Punjabi Muslim & the Punjabi Sikh were two separate Ethnic Groups even back then !

 

[Roybot]

You quoted my first post without even grasping what I was saying !

He has taken Karachi & Lahore & more so the bourgeoisie of these two cities as representative of what constitutes as Pakistani Culture when it is not so !

Its as absurd as me saying because the Hazaras speak a dialect of Persian - Pakistanis are culturally similar to Iranians - We're not !

We've got influences from all three of those regions - South Asian, Central Asia & the Middle East but there isn't any part of Pakistan that has more or less the same culture as their Indian or Iranian Counterparts - Not even Punjab !

Lol calm down mate! Am confused, are we even reading the same article! I understood what you said in your first post, and thats why I said that the author has addressed those issues in his article.

However, it is also true that there is large similarity in the cultures of Pakistan’s eastern regions (Sindh, Punjab and Azad Kashmir) and India’s northern and western regions along most cultural aspects mentioned above, eg art and dress. While Pakistanis living in the country’s western regions obviously have more cultural linkages with Pakistan’s western neighbours (eg Afghanistan), Pakistan’s eastern regions host the bulk of the population. Thus, for the majority of Pakistanis, the large cultural overlap with India is undeniable.

What am I missing here.

 

[Developereo]

But then what is the problem? I wont mind being called a pig if a pig means a nice, innocent and honest person. Will you?

Its not a battle of semantics to say the least.

It's a tactic to get around secularist safeguards in the constitution.

If Hinduism is a cultural concept, not a religious one, then it becomes legitimate to teach parts of it in school and force all students to learn it.

please quote the statements.

There have been a number of statements during his campaign stops. Feel free to google. I am not trying to be dismissive, but that has been debated several times here, including by Indians.

 

[bronxbull]

Of course they don't thats why I say that there are similarities between some Pakistanis & some Indians as there are between some Pakistanis & some Afghans & some Pakistanis & some Iranians but there isn't an 'India', 'Afghanistan' or an 'Iran' within me whatever my ethnic affilations maybe - Pakistan has uniquely evolved into a distinct cultural & ethnic entity because of its position & because of the History associated with it !

But Indian Punjab & Pakistani Punjab even before the Partition had a divergence of Cultural & Linguistic practices & norms - the Punjabi Muslim & the Punjabi Sikh were two separate Ethnic Groups even back then !

Not really,i only see ethnic/caste separation,not religious,esp in punjab,

Thats why people lived together.

I know most of his statements,but i want to know which statement u r referring to.

 

[livingdead]

Of course they don't thats why I say that there are similarities between some Pakistanis & some Indians as there are between some Pakistanis & some Afghans & some Pakistanis & some Iranians but there isn't an 'India', 'Afghanistan' or an 'Iran' within me whatever my ethnic affilations maybe - Pakistan has uniquely evolved into a distinct cultural & ethnic entity because of its position & because of the History associated with it !

But Indian Punjab & Pakistani Punjab even before the Partition had a divergence of Cultural & Linguistic practices & norms - the Punjabi Muslim & the Punjabi Sikh were two separate Ethnic Groups even back then !

jury is still out as to how much pakistan has evolved its own cultural identity. You might assert so because you have to justify to yourself why the country was made in the first place and for that you need to prove to yourself you are different from others.
Thats your issue (how you fight with your idenity) and I will leave you to that.
In the meantime I would declare afgans as my own people...