The Indian Rafale: Why Pakistan Should Celebrate! -Opinion (ALL Rafale posts here please)

[cerberus]

Yea i wonder who was posting pictures of old BMD test to hide the latest failure.
Take a chill pill.

That's not me I guess
As for failure it was false report you have 1:7 articles which was countering your post
Media can use misreporting and hiding facts its nature media all over world

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

I don't claim to be one, and in a sense be post nonsense.
However your response commands a sensible reply so here it is.

You rightly said that the quantity matters. But this govt is not about that. If it wanted to allocate 20 billion for Rafale it will rightly do so, there is no dearth of funds. But it diversified funds to all sectors.

There is a reason why it's going for S400 .

I never put that title of professional in my profile. The forum put it there. Titles don't matter dear. I am just a retired pilot.

 

[Windjammer]

Rafale, a challenge for IAF to maintain inventory
NEW DELHI: Sep 24, 2016, DHNS:

The two squadrons of Rafale fighter jets would boost Indian Air Force’s war fighting abilities; but the service would also face a big challenge in maintaining a complex inventory of eight different types of fighter aircraft.

The IAF currently flies MiG-21, MiG-27, MiG-29, Su-30 MKI, Jaguar and Mirage fighter jets as well as the indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft. The French origin Rafale adds another platform to the inventory, making the maintenance job far more complicated for the IAF technical hands.

Successive IAF chiefs had warned the government against multiplicity of the inventory for the sake of better economics and performance. “Multiplicity of platforms is a nightmare. If it were up to me, I would have a single aircraft type. But we don’t live in a perfect world,” former IAF chief Air Chief Marshal P V Naik had stated in the past.

In addition, the IAF also flies several other types of transport and surveillance aircraft including C-17, C-130J, IL-76, IL-78, AN-32, Dornier and Boeing 737 and Embraer jets for VVIP flights. There are Hawk and Pilatus trainers and helicopters too.

The inventory problem, however, is unlikely to fade away in future with several aviation majors including Boeing and Lockheed Martin from the US and Saab Gripen and Dassault Aviation offering to manufacture their fighter jets in India if there is an assured order from the IAF.

“It is 36 at the moment. We feel that we can create a strong industrial partnership in India. We know very well the large number of aircraft that the IAF needs,” Dassault CEO Eric Trappier said in an interview soon after India signed an agreement with France to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets.

The aviation firms sense an opportunity because of the dwindling numbers of fighter aircraft. IAF has sanctions for 42 squadrons, but current strength is only 33 squadrons which includes obsolete versions of MiG variants.

More than 15 years ago, the IAF mooted a proposal to purchase 126 fighter jets anticipating the gap. After almost 10 years of tendering, trial, evaluation and negotiation process, the government scrapped that plan and decided to buy only 36 platforms. The government is yet to decide from where the remaining numbers would come.

 

[Bratva]

The French gave their best prices at their lowest possible profit margin along with 50% in investments. And India is paying a one time charge of $2B for customization.

All that for 36 jets?

Is there a follow on purchase clause in the agreement ?

 

[Centurion2016]

Couple of interesting points to note in the article, India has finally admitted that the F-16 is much more capable than the all hyped up SU-30MKI as it needs two to counter each PAF F-16......also the first Rafale wouldn't arrive until 2019 and it will not be in full strength untill 20222.
If all goes to plan, that's over five years period add to that the time for the units to become operational.

''India will get the first Rafale in three years, with all 36 touching down by early-2022. Till then, in the event of a conflict, India will have to deploy two Sukhoi-30MKIs to tackle each Pakistani F-16 due to the latter's superior weapons package, including 80-km range missiles. But once the Rafales are inducted, Pakistan will have to deploy two F-16s for each of them.''
@Bilal Khan 777
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...over-Pakistans-F-16s/articleshow/54491180.cms

If you seriously believe this to be true then Pakistan needs to drop all talk of su35, and just get more falcons

Your intimating that a paf if16 s equal to 2 su30mki

The falcons radar ew suites engines pay load range and angles of attack are inferior to a twin engined flanker.

The main issue with flankers is the high maintenance costs.

Rafales are India state of the art.mmrca to lead ground strikes and tackle high end plaaf fighters post 2020.

Paf f16 can easily be handled 1/1,with any of the following

Mig29k navy
Mug29 upgraded airforce
Mirage2000/5 with mica
Su30mki .

 

[IblinI]

If you seriously believe this to be true then Pakistan needs to drop all talk of su35, and just get more falcons

Your intimating that a paf if16 s equal to 2 su30mki

The falcons radar ew suites engines pay load range and angles of attack are inferior to a twin engined flanker.

The main issue with flankers is the high maintenance costs.

Rafales are India state of the art.mmrca to lead ground strikes and tackle high end plaaf fighters post 2020.

Paf f16 can easily be handled 1/1,with any of the following

Mig29k navy
Mug29 upgraded airforce
Mirage2000/5 with mica
Su30mki .

You blame him for comparing F16 with su30mki, but you are doing the same thing,and pls leave plaaf out of this,
our threat come from the east.

 

[!eon]

Is there a follow on purchase clause in the agreement ?

India would be able to buy 18 more after these 36 with same price tag any time in future.

 

[Windjammer]

If you seriously believe this to be true then Pakistan needs to drop all talk of su35, and just get more falcons

Your intimating that a paf if16 s equal to 2 su30mki

The falcons radar ew suites engines pay load range and angles of attack are inferior to a twin engined flanker.

The main issue with flankers is the high maintenance costs.

Rafales are India state of the art.mmrca to lead ground strikes and tackle high end plaaf fighters post 2020.

Paf f16 can easily be handled 1/1,with any of the following

Mig29k navy
Mug29 upgraded airforce
Mirage2000/5 with mica
Su30mki .

What makes you think Pakistan's not going for more F-16s and do remember how much butt hurt even 8 F-16s caused India and not without reason.... as for your habitual comparison, it all looks good on the paper, just like MiG-21 did against obsolete F-86s.....only time will tell.....but sadly for you none of the above ever engaged in an air battle and SU-30 doesn't even have a single kill to it's name.....anywhere in the world.

 

[randomradio]

Is there a follow on purchase clause in the agreement ?

There is a follow on option, but it's not clear yet. A very reliable source says the option has converted to a 18 jet deal for the IN.

The IN is interested in 54 jets. And the IAC-2 won't have enough jets. There was a plan to buy another 45 Mig-29Ks, but that's obviously been shelved for Rafales.

 

[third eye]

A) The selection of Rafale, after many painstaking years was to replace the Migs of India, which are in hundreds. Out of 120 aircraft, only 36 are being procured, which defeats the purpose of the induction.

50 % of the cost of the deal is being reinvested in India by the french, this in itself shall give a huge fillip to the aerospace industry in India in terms of manufacturing ability.

 

[Bratva]

There is a follow on option, but it's not clear yet. A very reliable source says the option has converted to a 18 jet deal for the IN.

The IN is interested in 54 jets. And the IAC-2 won't have enough jets. There was a plan to buy another 45 Mig-29Ks, but that's obviously been shelved for Rafales.

So nothing concrete. I was reading the tweets of one journalist which specifically said there is no follow on purchase clause in the agreement. Which means If India chooses to purchase further Rafael in future, it will have to pay a higher cost

 

[Farah Sohail]

What makes you think Pakistan's not going for more F-16s and do remember how much butt hurt even 8 F-16s caused India and not without reason.... as for your habitual comparison, it all looks good on the paper, just like MiG-21 did against obsolete F-86s.....only time will tell.....but sadly for you none of the above ever engaged in an air battle and SU-30 doesn't even have a single kill to it's name.....anywhere in the world.

Tht deal of 8 block 52s F-16is dead, right? Because we wanted on subsidized rates and they didnt offer us that and we didnt want to pay full price...
So do PAF have any plans to buy new F16 block 52 or not? Or we will go for mlu ed F 16s from any other country?

What abt those rumors of PAF wanting to go for 40 more high tech jets, whether Su35 or EFT, or some other.... which came few months ago? Do those rumors have any substance in them...or they were just rumors only?

 

[zebra7]

I donot doubt the capabilities of the Rafale, it's one hell of a plane and a good addition to the Indian Airforce but if IAF was looking for a Deep strike ground target aircraft then Euro fighter would have been a better choice since its a larger plane and will carry more load. Rafale is light weight and maneuverable and with the Metoer package would be better suited for A2A. Just my 2 cent.

Eurofighter was rejected for Rafale on the basis of cost. There have been talks to arm MKI with meteors and the usage of Meteors would be against high value targets only such as tankers and AWAACS.

So nothing concrete. I was reading the tweets of one journalist which specifically said there is no follow on purchase clause in the agreement. Which means If India chooses to purchase further Rafael in future, it will have to pay a higher cost

And you think the opening price of French 12 Billion Euro scalled to 7.8 euro, with 14 Indian specific enhansement, 20 technology transfer to India, and Offset of 50 percentage, gaurantee of 75 percentage availability any time, spares for 7 years from 5 years etc etc will be for the mere 36 Rafale.

 

[randomradio]

So nothing concrete. I was reading the tweets of one journalist which specifically said there is no follow on purchase clause in the agreement. Which means If India chooses to purchase further Rafael in future, it will have to pay a higher cost

No. The contract may not have anything extra, but the IGA does. So costs won't be affected. In fact, for MII, the costs may be lower depending on the Indian industry's capabilities.

and the usage of Meteors would be against high value targets only such as tankers and AWAACS.

There is no such restriction for Meteor. It can be used against any targets. It's made for use against fighters.

 

[zebra7]

No. The contract may not have anything extra, but the IGA does. So costs won't be affected. In fact, for MII, the costs may be lower depending on the Indian industry's capabilities.



There is no such restriction for Meteor. It can be used against any targets. It's made for use against fighters.

There is no restriction agreed, but the price is 3 times greater. Lets see the number of missile procured, if I am correct it should be around 50 max.