The India Pakistan geographical divide is at least 1600 years old

[Butchcassidy]

I am just in it for the jokes.]

Aren't we all?
Anyways baba ji so jao.
You remind me of a guy who used to be here aka fauji

 

[Indus Pakistan]

was largely a land inhabited by Hindus

Assume it was. Tell me please how does that in any way change or impact anything. Hinduism is a cosmos and very hard to describe or categorize. And even if you can categorize it is not a ethnic group or single uniform entity. It's like saying Ethopia were [are] Christians. Then saying Egyptian Copts were [are] Christians. Then saying Assyrians were [are] Christians. Then saying Greeks were [are] Christians.

How does listing these groups Christian help to form any impact - and I assume that is why you bring this up. A person living in Gandhara might have been a Hindu but that does not make him a Bengali or a Tamil Hindu. He remains a Gandharan. It's like today you have Hindu Tamils, Hindu in Nepal, Hindu in Bali, Hindu in Bengal or Hindu in Punjab. Just because all of them are Hindu does not detract from the fact that they have distinct identities and cultures/languages.

So if you are trying use "Hindu" to try to latch on then it's not going to work anymore then a Ethopian might use Christianity to latch on to Greeks who also are Christians. I mean despite both peoples being Christian one is European the other is worlds apart and is African. Keep this in mind next time you get the reflex to say "Hindu".

a

permits, i can lay claim to IVC

It's not for me to validate your claim or invalidate your personal claim. There are probably millions of people from the Indus region [irrespective of religion] in India or other countries of the world but that does not disconnect them from their genetic heritage. The discussion on this thread and my angle is more at the general level of the mass of peoples in South Asia as found within each of the countries.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Vedic kingdoms' geographical boundaries extended all the way to current day Turkey, Syria and Iraq.

Forget that, Hindus and the Vedic super-race once ruled the world.

The Gupta empire ruled the Indus valley. Most of the Muslim kings from Delhi ruled Punjab. A few had Sind, Peshwar and Baluchistan under their rule.

Gupta Empire never ruled the Indus Valley. The Kingdoms of the Indus payed tribute to the Gupta Empire but were never ruled by them. The Muslim kings of Delhi were foreigners and not Indians, this thread is also specifically talking about the era before Islam reigned in modern-day Pakistan.

Indians and Pakistanis do look similar

Hey, I and other Pakistani passengers just had to share a flight with Indians from Kuwait to New York. Indians looked, behaved and spoke completely foreign to us. I couldn't even hardly understand their Hindi; especially with the weird and fast accents they had. The only Indians that had any similarities with us were the Sikh passengers.

Pre-1001 AD Indus Basin ; was largely a land inhabited by Hindus

So what differences are you talking about

Not even close. There was no such thing as Hinduism back then. People had different gods and different rituals to worship them. Although they did have some similarities, it was still different; kinda like the Mediterranean religions of antiquity (Egyptian, Phoenician, Roman, Greek, etc...).

Indus Basin was mostly Buddhist, local religions, animalism and etc... with Zoroastrianism being popular in the West. It wasn't till after the Muslim invasions and the large-scale Buddhist merger into Hinduism that we began to see Hinduism taking shape within the Indus Basin.

Even Sindh during the time of Muhammad Bin Qasim's invasion had a majority Buddhist population. It had only been several decades since the Buddhist dynasty was treacherously usurped, leading to the Hindu Rai Dynasty of Sindh.

You guys watch Bollywood and Star plus because you can relate to them

Yes, to an extent you can say that.

Bollywood is dominated by Punjabis and people that have their origins in modern-day Pakistan. The culture that Bollywood showcases as Indian in its various movies and songs is actually just Punjabi culture. Even look at the accent they speak in and how much Urdu words they use - compare that to Indian News shows.

Another reason why many Pakistanis watch or watched Bollywood was because there was no alternative. Bollywood uses a language we can understand, if any other country begins to make movies in our Urdu; they surely would also gain popularity in Pakistan.

Secondly, Bollywood is nowhere close as popular in Pakistan as Indians think. It has been significantly declining in popularity ever since the revival of Pakistani cinema.

The original divide between India an Pakistan was religious , people of Pakistan have earned their own identity.

One of the reasons was religion, of-course. But if it had been the sole reason, then India wouldn't have about the same Muslim population as Pakistan does. Ancestors of modern-day Pakistanis and Indians have always had their separate identities.

Just look at the name of Pakistan.

P - Punjab
A - Afghania
K - Kashmir
S - Sindh
TAN - BalochiTAN

We are a federation of different but linked peoples who are a separate cluster from the Indians.

I have no shame to say that yes our ancestors were hindu indeed , and we are proud that they accepted Islam as true religion.

Not true. They could've been Buddhist, Zoroastrian, Animalist or followed their own local religion. If you do not know what you're talking about, then it's best you don't.

Sindh Punjab share more ethnic relation with some of Indian races , KP shares same ethnicity with afghans.
Islam makes us brother and a nation.

Punjab shares ethnic relations with India's Punjab and it pretty much ends there. Sindh is a completely distinct and separate group, to give a small example to better your understanding - genetically the closest Indian ethnic group to Sindhis are Kashmiri pandits - now look at the geographic distance between these two peoples.

 

[wiseone2]

Just look at the name of Pakistan.

P - Punjab
A - Afghania
K - Kashmir
S - Sindh
TAN - BalochiTAN

Tell us when did the ruler of Punjab ruled Baluchistan

Gupta Empire never ruled the Indus Valley. The Kingdoms of the Indus payed tribute to the Gupta Empire but were never ruled by them. The Muslim kings of Delhi were foreigners and not Indians, this thread is also specifically talking about the era before Islam reigned in modern-day Pakistan.

Guptas ruled good portions of the Indus valley

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Tell us when did the ruler of Punjab ruled Baluchistan

Tell me when ruler of Tamils ruled Kashmir?

@Talwar e Pakistan Great post.

 

[wiseone2]

Tell me when ruler of Tamils ruled Kashmir?

non-Tamil kings have ruled Tanilnadu. Tamil rulers never went outside of Tamilnadu. maybe a small portion of neighboring states

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Guptas ruled good portions of the Indus valley

 

[wiseone2]

Tell me when ruler of Tamils ruled Kashmir?

@Talwar e Pakistan Great post.

When ruler of Punjab never ruled Baluchistan how can you claim a shared destiny ?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

When ruler of Punjab never ruled Baluchistan how can you claim a shared destiny ?

When ruler of Tamils never ruled Kashmir or Assam or Ladakh how can you claim shared destiny?

 

[wiseone2]

When ruler of Tamils never ruled Kashmir or Assam or Ladakh how can you claim shared destiny?

non-Tamil rulers did rule Rest of India and Tamilnadu

 

[Indus Pakistan]

non-Tamil rulers did rule Rest of India and Tamilnadu

Non Punjabi rulers did rule rest of Pakistan including Punjab.

*Is there something wrong with you? The exact claims your making about Pakistan can be made for India. And I did.

 

[wiseone2]

Non Punjabi rulers did rule rest of Pakistan including Punjab.

*Is there something wrong with you? The exact claims your making about Pakistan can be made for India. And I did.

Very few Indian rulers ruled Punjab and Baluchistan together. Or that matter Punjab and Sind.

I did not start the thread - the whole premise is silly

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

So what holds the rest of India together which you guys refuse to acknowledge? The whole region was called Bharat/Bharata under King Bharat. That's one story. He may or may not have lived. But that's how "we" used to call ourselves. From North to South even though divided to different kingdoms.

No one called themselves 'Bharati' and the region was recognized as Bharat by only some peoples, mostly situated on the Ganges. It would be like a Gujjar calling himself a Baloch because he was once ruled by a Baloch dynasty.

Bharatas was a tribe that was situated around Ravi River. They entered into modern-day India (Haryana) after defeating a coalition of other Indus Basic tribes/kingdoms.

These tribes/kingdoms were

• Abhira Kingdom, centered in the Cholistan-Thar region.
• Bahlika Kingdom, centered in Punjab.
• Gandhara grave culture, also called Swat culture and centered in the Swat Valley of present-day Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.
• Kamboja Kingdom, centered in the Hindu Kush region.
• Kasmira Kingdom, centered in present-day Kashmir Valley.
• Madra Kingdom, centered in upper Punjab, with its capital at Sialkot
• Pauravas, a sub-clan of Kambojas
• Sindhu Kingdom, centered in present-day Sindh.
• Sudra Kingdom, centered in the Cholistan-Thar region.

----

One of their ancestors, Emperor Bharata would late on go onto conquer most of South Asia.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I honestly think that not a single poster on this forum is very serious about the stuff they say. Except from Nuri Natt, he was very serious about race etc.

I was into racial purity and stuff.


Than i got married into another ethnicity ...

Now im in it just to piss off people.

I have heard similar stories.

While apart from that.

Gujjars are quite evenly spread across the whole of the region. Both sides of the border.


They recently found out a link between the gypsies in Romania to the maldharis in India.

Hungarians say that they are Mongols who came there looking after deer.

Like wtf

But its cool stories one should listen with open hearts and minds.

Sadly one ups are more important in a superficial material world

Gujjars are found even in Afghanistan.

 

[wiseone2]

Non Punjabi rulers did rule rest of Pakistan including Punjab.

*Is there something wrong with you? The exact claims your making about Pakistan can be made for India. And I did.

Madras, Bombay and Calcutta were the three primary outposts of British empire. That is the main reason Tamilnadu is part of India. Tamilnadu is well developed compared to the backwater Baluchistan is