The illicit wine-makers of Pakistan's north

[angelandsoul]

Look I dont know about what should or shouldnt be allowed as I live in the UK.......
I guess if people want such places then fine but in certain zones where its not open access. Also Lahore already has redlight area and a thriving gay/hijra party scene!!
Ps I know disco dies in 1984 but in general people call disco a night club establishment ie discotheque dance bars etc all the same just umbrella term.
I know as I have been to night clubs in the UK. I am not trying to ban anyone from doin their fun just not in open in muslim country thats all in my opinion, but if like turkey you want open access then its upto people!

I completely understand as each country as it's own culture and set of values. However what if there are exclusive zones away from the residential areas?

As I said and I will emphasize again...no one will force you to consume or do anything as it is downright criminal to bend someone's will and infringe on their personal liberty. You will definitely not see discos on every street of Lahore....discos are so outdated anyways.

 

[Audio]

btw, homemade moonshine can kill if done wrong. Though, moonshine, not wine, but just sayin'

 

[angelandsoul]

I can come back and quote many other sources and we can play yo yo on this all night long, but the fact is there is a lot of digression on the subject which means at best its a theory. And even in the 7 benefits you posted it say alcohol may for about 5 of them!!!! so its not proven. And like I said one can get those benefits elsewjere such as drinking grape juice etc!

okay, the Guardian.....

Alcohol: Balancing Risks and Benefits | The Nutrition Source | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

7 Health Benefits Of Drinking Alcohol


Also, to ask more about blood of Jesus....it's not a Christian theory, to the best of my knowledge these are Jesus' own words....doesn't that count? Or you don't believe he said that?

Muslims dont believe the bible is in its pure form now, so even though we believe its the word of GOD but not in state that can be trusted except where it matches with the quran

Doctors used to think Smoking was good for you too in the 50's!!!

 

[Audio]

I can come back and quote many other sources and we can play yo yo on this all night long, but the fact is there is a lot of digression on the subject which means at best its a theory. And even in the 7 benefits you posted it say alcohol may for about 5 of them!!!! so its not proven. And like I said one can get those benefits elsewjere such as drinking grape juice etc!

I suppose the thing that tips me into believing into the positives consequences of moderate drinking is that i've seen an example of it in my own life. Purely anecdotal, i know, but it's hard to argue with it in real life.

Muslims dont believe the bible is in its pure form now, so even though we believe its the word of GOD but not in state that can be trusted except where it matches with the quran

How can it be from God and not trusted? This is a clear contradiction, i doubt you've explained this correctly or in full detail to be understandable.

 

[Bratva]

okay, the Guardian.....

Alcohol: Balancing Risks and Benefits | The Nutrition Source | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

7 Health Benefits Of Drinking Alcohol


Also, to ask more about blood of Jesus....it's not a Christian theory, to the best of my knowledge these are Jesus' own words....doesn't that count? Or you don't believe he said that?

Are you sure Jesus doesnt said that metaphorically ?

And Hashish is also forbidden in Islam. Comes in the same category as that of drinking alcohol.

I suppose the thing that tips me into believing into the positives consequences of moderate drinking is that i've seen an example of it in my own life. Purely anecdotal, i know, but it's hard to argue with it in real life.



How can it be from God and not trusted? This is a clear contradiction, i doubt you've explained this correctly or in full detail to be understandable.

Jesus said something about in Hebrew right? But what are you quoting is from the english translation you read now a days is it so ?

 

[Audio]

Are you sure Jesus doesnt said that metaphorically ?

Ya, probably. I wouldn't know details, i vaguely remember the bit about blood/wine and bread/flesh and eternal life....

#edit: went to check now, it's basically blasphemy for you guys then.... he says whoever shall drink my blood (wine is meant by that) shall have eternal life

Jesus said something about in Hebrew right? But what are you quoting is from the english translation you read now a days is it so ?

I'm pretty sure it's the same wording in every Bible. Doesn't make sense if it's not....at least the meaning if not exact wording.

 

[Bratva]

Ya, probably. I wouldn't know details, i vaguely remember the bit about blood/wine and bread/flesh and eternal life....



I'm pretty sure it's the same wording in every Bible. Doesn't make sense if it's not....

We use metaphorical expressions of Alcohol intoxication in Islam as a mean to describe what it feels to be like in True love of God.

Same wording in every bible but what it matters is what were the actual HEBREW wordis in which Bible was given to Jesus from God and how in 2000 years those actual words meaning approximated, have become corrupted, their meaning changed and replaced. Thats what the person meant of whose post you quoted

 

[VCheng]

Those brothers who can afford a camel, sure they do! Bhai-jan I have given you an extensive rulings from the Quran about obeying the nabi as'salaathu wa'salaam and there is NO DOUBT about the namaaz and how it is performed and number of times it is done in what times.

Okay, but please tell me if the Prophet PBUH said prayers in many different ways or not? If he did, then it means that there are many ways to offer prayers. After all, if there were only one way acceptable to Allah for praying to Him, He would have mentioned it in the Quran, or at least commanded His beloved Prophet PBUH to say his prayers only one way.

 

[Audio]

We use metaphorical expressions of Alcohol intoxication in Islam as a mean to describe what it feels to be like in True love of God.

Same wording in every bible but what it matters is what were the actual HEBREW wordis in which Bible was given to Jesus from God and how in 2000 years those actual words meaning approximated, have become corrupted, their meaning changed and replaced. Thats what the person meant of whose post you quoted

Meh.....just wanted to say nice thread....that if it's tradition and it's passed through generations, some winemakers are probably good, but got entangled in religious talk. Idk how really...lmao.....

 

[Bratva]

Meh.....just wanted to say nice thread....that if it's tradition and it's passed through generations, some winemakers are probably good, but got entangled in religious talk. Idk how really...lmao.....

Even a dollar bill says In God we trust

 

[airmarshal]

And You are wrong as well.
In 5:05 it is permitted to consume all good things.
Small amount of Alcohol has been proven to have a positive influence of health.
This means 5:05 permits SOME alcohol.

The Qur'an itself claims that it is sometimes contradictory, but in this case God is a forgiving god.

5:90 gives advice that intoxicants may make your life a misery,
and certainly alcoholism leads to misery.
It does not state that it is forbidden.
It does not state that it is a sin.
It is more like friendly advice, which you may or may not want to follow.
You are told about possible consequences, and those are that you may not be prosperous.

5:93 also says that if you behave like a proper muslim, what you eat will not get you into trouble.
So the occasional ham sandwich is OK as well, if you otherwise behave.

Overconsumption of alcohol at a single occasion, may lead to misery.
Examples:
Driving a car while drunk, may lead to fatal accidents.
Some people get very aggressive after they had a few drinks,
and obviously they should avoid alcohol.
This is what 5:90 warns us about.

Breaking the law, while under the influence of alcohol, deserves additional punishment.
Enjoying my Chateau LaTour 1981 in the company of good friends does not.

You need to study the Qur'an a little more...

If You reject 5:05 and 5:93 you become a non-muslim.

Who are you? I have seen your posts maligning Islam but giving references to Quran.

ISlam strictly forbids consumption or business of alchol. Quran has a compilation and sequence order.

When Quran was being revealed on Prophet, there was a reference to forbidding alcohol but was not banned out right. This is because Quraish and all other tribes did consume alcohol.

The second order was to not pray while inebriated. The third and last one totally prohibited consumption of alcohol.

 

[RoadRunner401]

As you are a rejector of hadith out of ignorance. Hadith in arabic means sayings. So when we say hadith, we mean the statements, actions of the Nabi as'salaathu- was'salaam. So to reject or show disrespect is kufr.

Saheeh in arabic means correct/authentic and Sitta in arabic means 6. Saheeh sitta is a culmination of 6 authentic hadith collectors; Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawood, Ibn Majah, Tirmizi and Nisai.

Now show us where in the Quran Allah mentions 5 namaz? Where in the Quran Allah mentions how to do namaz?

THE NOBLE Qur'an, Surah 30: Al Rum 17 "SO (GIVE) GLORY TO ALLAH, WHEN YE REACH EVENTIDE AND WHEN YE RISE IN THE MORNING;" 18 "YEA,TO HIM BE PRAISE, IN THE HEAVENS AND ON EARTH; AND IN THE LATE AFTERNOON AND WHEN THE DAY BEGINS TO DECLINE."

‘isha’
Soorat Hood, where THE ALMIGHTY says (interpretation of the meaning): “… and in some hours of the night…” [Hood 11:114]

Enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[angelandsoul]

its obvious he is munaafiq!! lol

Who are you? I have seen your posts maligning Islam but giving references to Quran.

ISlam strictly forbids consumption or business of alchol. Quran has a compilation and sequence order.

When Quran was being revealed on Prophet, there was a reference to forbidding alcohol but was not banned out right. This is because Quraish and all other tribes did consume alcohol.

The second order was to not pray while inebriated. The third and last one totally prohibited consumption of alcohol.

 

[airmarshal]

Bhai-jaan everything in the quran is important and namaaz is mentioned but not number of times.

This why YOU have believe in ALLAH and MUHAMMAD as'salaathu was'salaam to be a MUSLIM.

The Nabi as'salathu was'salaam did namaaz 5 times a day! He is the Sunnah (hadith) (as'salaathu was'salaam)

Allah says, "Whoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger, We have prepared a blaze for the unbelievers." [Al-Qur'an 48:13]

Islam is not complete without following the Prophet. Thats why what is not mentioned in Quran is what we follow as practised by the Prophet PBUH.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

where did I contradict myself ?
Alcohol has been banned for muslims by Allah all mighty, there is no space to drink small amounts of it and gamble small amounts for fun! By your logic a lot of things can be permissable. Small amounts of stealing, small white lies, a little bit of incest, a little bit of fraud etc etc etc a little bit of pork.

What is meant in Quran to be successful is success in this world and the next. Charging people interest will bring you success (most likely) in this world but not in the next. There is a verse in Quran which talks about the profit that can be found in gambling but that it will not pay off in the next world.

Now will a little bit of alcohol and gambling hurt if done in very small amounts for most people, the answer is no, but is it halal absolutely not and its a sin. Also another reason gambling and alcohol are not allowed is due to addictive nature of some people who cant control themselves. So Allah tells
us not to gamble or drink alcohol at all. As everyone can see that for most people no gambling and drinking is actually a good thing!

And I challenge you to prove that alcohol in small amounts is beneficial without any negatives ?

Its a fallacy There is no such thing as a safe level of alcohol consumption | Professor David Nutt | Science | The Guardian

Does that mean people who drink small amounts or gamble small amounts will go to hell for it, The answer is I dont know.
If they do it but know it to be wrong and repent for it and do it out of weakness then Allah is all forgiving.......After all you can pray and fast all your life and give to charity and remember the quran off by heart but if you have ego that makes you think that you are better than other people and think you are morally superior to others and so on, you can be pretty sure paradise is not where you will be heading if you dont change that attitude.

On the other hand if you do small amounts of gambling and alcohol and think that you are not doing anything wrong and that its actually halal! You can be certain if you dont change your attitude paradise probably wont be your destination in the after life. If you even believe in that!

Alcohol is certainly not banned by 5:90...
5:90 just shows that it should be avoided, which is not a strong statement.
The Qur'an is supposed to be clear, and the Qur'an is clear about banning other things.

Do You find yourself morally superior to people drinking small amount of alcohol?
Please don't, or You be in trouble, as you say above.

I wont be going to Paradise, I will be going to Valhall.
Unlimited amounts of pork and beer and jolly company.