The Ground-zero mosque, continued

[fallstuff]

Pelosi clarifies call for look at funding of anti-mosque critics

Nancy Pelosi kicked off a bit of controversy on the right this morning when the news broke that she had told a local San Francisco radio station that she agreed with those calling for a look at how the groups opposing the "Ground Zero mosque" are being funded.

It was a bit unclear what she was referring to, and now her office sends over a statement from her clarifying what she meant and sort of standing by what she said:

"The freedom of religion is a Constitutional right. Where a place of worship is located is a local decision.

"I support the statement made by the Interfaith Alliance that 'We agree with the ADL that there is a need for transparency about who is funding the effort to build this Islamic center. At the same time, we should also ask who is funding the attacks against the construction of the center.'

"For all of those expressing concern about the 9/11 families, we call upon them to join us in support of the James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act when Congress returns in September."

So Pelosi wants "transparency" about who is funding the center, too. As for a look at the opposition, "we should also ask who is funding the attacks" is a bit of a walkback, but not much of one. It's unclear, to me at least, exactly what this means. The attacks on the center are coming from various quarters. There are outside groups like Liz Cheney's Keep America Safe, who presumably do get their funding from somewhere, though it doesn't take much money to blast out Liz Cheney statements and to cut ominous sounding Web videos.

There are the GOP party committees, I suppose, but while they may be offering general guidance, it seems unlikely that they're directly choreographing these attacks in any meaningful sense.

Either way, Pelosi doesn't seem to be calling for some kind of government investigation into the mosque's critics, as thrilling as that would be to some on the right.

By Greg Sargent | August 18, 2010; 12:21 PM ET

Link:
The Plum Line - Pelosi clarifies call for look at funding of anti-mosque critics

 

[True_Pakistan_Zindabad]

Not the same. Unlike Muslims outraged by mere cartoons, those who had loved ones killed on 9/11 experience grief and loss. So calling out "hypocrisy" merely highlights the lack of empathy by Muslims like yourself and thus strengthens the determination of Cordoba House opponents.

A childhood friend of mine who was Muslim and Pakistani was killed in the 9/11 attacks. He had just moved to New York 1 year before. Friends and relatives of mine have also perished in other terror attacks since then. People act like Muslims were tipped off that day and didn't come to work and that our sole gripe with the world is an issue over cartoons, and you tarnish their memories and sacrifices with such "black or white" thinking. This is not Islam vs. America like so many people are hoping real hard for.

 

[Awesome]

If the Americans block the mosque they will be officially declaring Islam and all Muslim kind as the enemy. There is no other way of justifying, legally or morally, that this mosque cannot be built.

 

[inddef]

If the Americans block the mosque they will be officially declaring Islam and all Muslim kind as the enemy. There is no other way of justifying, legally or morally, that this mosque cannot be built.

hyperbole. if its blocked, that'll just mean that one particular mosque was disallowed and nothing more.

mosques will continue to be built just about everywhere else.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

If the Americans block the mosque they will be officially declaring Islam and all Muslim kind as the enemy. There is no other way of justifying, legally or morally, that this mosque cannot be built.

I agree.

The bottom line is that they do not complain about Buddhist places of worship or Christian places of worship... they only complain about Muslim places of worship.

To me, that is simply discrimination. Like the banning of Minarets in Switzerland, they are targeting Islam specifically.

It is also implicitly linking the average follower of Islam with the actions of extremists, which is completely unfair.

 

[Solomon2]

A childhood friend of mine who was Muslim and Pakistani was killed in the 9/11 attacks. He had just moved to New York 1 year before. Friends and relatives of mine have also perished in other terror attacks since then. People act like Muslims were tipped off that day and didn't come to work and that our sole gripe with the world is an issue over cartoons, and you tarnish their memories and sacrifices with such "black or white" thinking. This is not Islam vs. America like so many people are hoping real hard for.

Your voice needs to be heard, along with the voices of others. Do you think your friend would like to see Cordoba House built, since it would be very easy to convert it to a shrine to those who murdered him?

Without any sore of factual account of the whole episode from the parties involved, I can't really comment on an anecdotal account you might very well be just making up or misinterpreting.

You know me better than that, AM. If I can't back up what I claim I usually don't bring it up in the first place: link

Why should there be a restriction on external architecture so long as it is conforms to local regulations? Next you'll want Muslims of a particular race to get the 'Michael Jackson treatment' so their 'external appearance' does not 'offend the sensitivities of some Americans'. And the Center will I am sure follow local regulations and laws on weapons and usage.

One thing need not lead to another. A lease is, however, a contract with an individual, and through him to the larger community. It would be a moral in addition to a legal commitment by Cordoba House to set limits on what they will and will not do. The details of such an agreement need not be a concern now as much as the principle.

It is not 'sensitivity' any more than throwing a fit over blacks moving into a neighborhood or intermarrying with Whites is 'sensitivity'. Just because people cling to prejudice does not mean it should be accepted or called 'politically incorrect speech' to mask it.

A suggestive demonstration that the act of building Cordoba House cannot be morally justified unless the grief of 9-11 is ignored.

The organizers of Cordoba House claim that they aim to build "a community center guided by the universal values of all religions in their truest form – peace, compassion, generosity, and respect for all." Yet if those values don't already exist in Muslims like yourself, A.M., how can building Cordoba House help?

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

Do you think your friend would like to see Cordoba House built, since it would be very easy to convert it to a shrine to those who murdered him?

self delete..................

 

[SMC]

I don't think the comparison is a valid one for a different reason.

The cartoons were meant to caricature Mohammed, Islam and Muslims, and therefore deliberately insult/poke fun at whatever.

The proposed Islamic Center is not meant to insult/poke fun of/denigrate America, 9/11 and/or the victims of 9/11. Therefore the contrast of 'hurt sentiments', between opponents of this mosque and opponents of the Mohammed cartoons, is not an apt one.

I don't think its relevant whether the caricatures were meant to be provoke Muslims. In the context, i.e. talking about freedom vs sentiments, sensitivities and emotions, it is the same thing.

 

[EjazR]

Local 9/11 families support mosque near Ground Zero | lost, tatum, met - Local News - WRGB CBS 6 Albany

ALBANY- It's been almost nine years since Frank Tatum lost his mother on 9/11. "I think about it everyday. I miss her warmth and her smile. She was probably the most unselfish person I've ever met in my entire life" says Tatum.

While many family members who lost loved ones on 9/11 share the same feelings on those that they lost, they differ in their opinions on an Islamic mosque proposed just blocks away from Ground Zero.

President Barack Obama defended the idea. "This is America. Our committment to religious freedom must be unshakeable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country and that they will not be treated differently by their government is essential to who we are" the President emphatically stated on Friday.

While one poll shows that 2/3 of Americans believe the plan for the mosque is disrespectful and are against the idea, Frank Tatum and other local Capital Region families who lost loved ones on 9/11 actually support the President and this mosque.

"I think it's important not to give into the hysteria. We do have religious freedom. I know the wounds are still very open, me myslef included but you have to look at the big picture. You can't practice these freedoms only when it suits us. You have to practice them all along" says Tatum.

Another local family member who wished to remain nameless tells CBS 6 "I think it's a wonderful idea."

Shamshad Ahmad is the president for the Masjid As-Salm mosque in Colonie.

"There are many ignorant people that don't know about Muslims and Islam. Blindly they think 9/11 has something to do with Islam and Muslims and mosques. I think people are against it for political and sentimental reasons. Mosques are a part of the institutions of this society and we have nothing to do with 9/11." says Ahmad.

As for local leaders, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand's office sent up this statement. "The local community board, which includes many people who lived through the 9/11 attacks, overwhelmingly voted to approve this proposal and Senator Gillibrand, as she has said numerous times, understands the emotional concerns over this issue and is supporting the local community board's decision."

Congressman Paul Tonko says "In this country we hold dear our right to religious freedom, and to deny that right for any reason is simply un-American. Ultimately, this decision is up to the people of New York City."

 

[GentlemanObserver]

hyperbole. if its blocked, that'll just mean that one particular mosque was disallowed and nothing more.

mosques will continue to be built just about everywhere else.

It's not even anywhere near ground zero, it's not on the site of ground zero, it is 4 blocks away...

How the hell is it "Ground Zero"... I mean WTF! And WTF are you talking about mate?

You been watching the news or reading the OP-Eds from very senior american think-tanks and policy makers who are genuinely trying to defend the centre... vs those bigots like Brad Blakeman who one several interviews has said that:

The construction of this centre will be appeasing the islamist medieval agenda for the control of America and a destruction of its values.

- What baloney...

Why not enlightend yourself:

Conservative Group Calls for Blanket Ban on New Mosques

: Conservative Group Calls for Blanket Ban on New Mosques SpeakEasy

 

[GentlemanObserver]

The organizers of Cordoba House claim that they aim to build "a community center guided by the universal values of all religions in their truest form – peace, compassion, generosity, and respect for all." Yet if those values don't already exist in Muslims like yourself, A.M., how can building Cordoba House help?

WTF is with the personal attacks Solomon, the same can be said of you and you ignorance of Islamic values or lack of sympathy when it comes to the plight of Palestinians... Yeah, Yeah i read your posts.

So only non Muslims died in 9/11? What baloney... I remember a NY Times article clearly stating the 62 or so Muslims killed in 9/11, their jobs etc etc....

So do they not have a say? Besides it, the centre which for your information is no longer called Kordoba (due the bigots like Brad Blakemen) is now called Park51... The site is 4 blocks away from the site of Ground Zero... 4 Blocks Away...

I checked on google maps...

How the **** is this on Ground Zero... It's bloody 4 blocks away... 4 blocks.... And it's not a mosque, it will house a basket ball court, game rooms, a library, a massive dining hall, meeting rooms, multimedia room and only 2 of the upper floors will be used as a prayer area for Muslims. (So Much for the MEGA Mosque Theory)

It is another one of Sarah Palin's scaremongering tactics to show Islam as a blight on the world. Read some of her statements they are bordering on offensive.

You know what's worse... Seeing Black people shout raciest comments at Arabs in times square on BBC... WTF, do they forget the words of Dr. King?

I'm sorry Solomon mate but your statement is like hot gas... Your Attacking a very respectable person like AM for expressing his genuine disgust at this just like any other moderate/libral Muslim across the world.

How dare you question his sympathetic nature, when judging by your own statements on certain topics pertaining to Palestine, you have showed naught of the same.... Sorry sir, but in my book you have been found wanting...

 

[Solomon2]

WTF is with the personal attacks Solomon, the same can be said of you and you ignorance of Islamic values -

I've pointed out that Muslims should argue their case.

- or lack of sympathy when it comes to the plight of Palestinians... So only non Muslims died in 9/11? What baloney...the centre which for your information is no longer called Kordoba...It is another one of Sarah Palin's scaremongering tactics...

These are irrelevancies meant to distract from the matter at hand.

The site is 4 blocks away from the site of Ground Zero... 4 Blocks Away...

It was within the debris footprint of the WTC, I think that's what matters to the aggrieved families.

...it's not a mosque, it will house a basket ball court, game rooms, a library, a massive dining hall, meeting rooms, multimedia room and only 2 of the upper floors will be used as a prayer area for Muslims. (So Much for the MEGA Mosque Theory)

I've already suggesting leasing the site from a non-Muslim to help alleviate such concerns.

How dare you question -

Yeah, that's how some of the Cordoba House debate is going.

 

[gambit]

If the Americans block the mosque they will be officially declaring Islam and all Muslim kind as the enemy. There is no other way of justifying, legally or morally, that this mosque cannot be built.

hyperbole. if its blocked, that'll just mean that one particular mosque was disallowed and nothing more.

mosques will continue to be built just about everywhere else.

It has to be hyperbolic. That is the way of those who perceive themselves to be persecuted when evidences says otherwise.

 

[gambit]

So only non Muslims died in 9/11? What baloney... I remember a NY Times article clearly stating the 62 or so Muslims killed in 9/11, their jobs etc etc....

So do they not have a say?

Of course they have a say. And here are some of their sentiments...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/nyregion/20muslims.html?_r=1

The same holds true for Pervaz Akhtar, a tailor who keeps a shop a few blocks from the center’s site — and who lost his first shop and nearly his life in the Sept. 11 attacks. “There is a principle involved,” Mr. Akhtar, 58, said. “We believe in the American Constitution.”

Yet with equal confidence, both men — who squared their shoulders and seemed to address an imaginary town hall meeting when discussing the issue — embrace a seemingly contradictory conviction about the center: It does not have to be two blocks from the site of the attacks.

“If they want to put it 10 blocks away, that’s fine,” Mr. Akhtar said. “I believe in compromise, too.”

Malik Nadeem Abid, an insurance agent whose storefront window on Coney Island Avenue in Brooklyn framed a steady stream of men walking to pray at the mosque next door, said he was “not a big fan” of the decision by the Cordoba Initiative, a Muslim group that promotes interfaith cooperation, to build the center near ground zero.

“It was not a politically smart move, from my perspective,” said Mr. Abid, 45. “No one wants a center in downtown Manhattan that stands as a permanent fixture of this terrible tension.”

Yet the decision has been made, he said, “and we can’t let the loudest voices dictate what happens.” Still, he added, if the center were built 5 or 10 blocks away, as some people have proposed, “I don’t think it would matter very much.”

Besides it, the centre which for your information is no longer called Kordoba (due the bigots like Brad Blakemen) is now called Park51...

The name change cannot remove the symbolism that the word 'Cordoba' conveyed -- that it is a triumphalist monument. The proverbial cat is out of the bag.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Origionally I was in favor of mosque , but I think I feel the mosque leaders should respect other ppl's oppinions

Let just make a universal anti discrimination center in the location and move the mosque to another reputable location