The Ground-zero mosque, continued

[ajpirzada]

media has made this a much bigger issue than wat it should have been....

anyway now that it is an issue, they should probably change the place just to ease the environment. otherwise there will be this stigma attached to this new mosque for ever

 

[SMC]

Granted for those who oppose the mosque and support drawing hate filled caricatures on draw muhammad day, but cant this hypocrisy also be seen on the side of Muslims who cast aside American sentiments and argue the legal words of the law while doing just the exact opposite with regards to caricatures of Muhammad?

It should be noted that the site was eventually banned or taken down in a striking blow to freedom of speech and expression (granted by a private company).

Will we see the equivalent outcome here by a weak government with elections right around the corner? I hope not, it would be another blow against our freedoms, doubly so coming from the body whose duty it is to follow them.

Facebook did not delete the page until the "Draw Muhammad Day" had passed. Furthermore, since facebook is a private busines, it is not subject to having to allow their users the freedom of speech and expression.

The point is that nothing happened to stop the publishing and drawing of the cartoons. If we're to be consistent, nothing should happen here.

 

[Solomon2]

...they should probably change the place just to ease the environment. otherwise there will be this stigma attached to this new mosque for ever

I disagree! Some battles need to fought, not suppressed and delayed. Better jaw-jaw now than war-war later.

 

[SMC]

Not the same. Unlike Muslims outraged by mere cartoons, those who had loved ones killed on 9/11 experience grief and loss. So calling out "hypocrisy" merely highlights the lack of empathy by Muslims like yourself and thus strengthens the determination of Cordoba House opponents.

They are not "mere cartoons" for muslims. I mentioned earlier that this is a simplistic argument since you're implying that these are "mere cartoons" like Tom and Jerry.

Just like the 9/11 victims mean dearly to you, Prophet Muhammad means dearly to Muslims.

 

[Solomon2]

Just like the 9/11 victims mean dearly to you, Prophet Muhammad means dearly to Muslims.

As I said, merely making the comparison is a display of your personal insensitivity. If you want to change that, you have to convince non-Muslims that you experience the same sort of grief and loss at the cartoons that they experienced when their loved ones were murdered.

 

[SMC]

Making the comparison is meant to show the hypocrisy. Not sure how that shows my insensitivity. Besides, sensitivity didn't matter to the 'freedom loving people' when muslims were asking for it.

 

[fallstuff]

I disagree! Some battles need to fought, not suppressed and delayed. Better jaw-jaw now than war-war later.

Ah the war cries ! Bring it on. I second your point without the war-war stuff.
I would love to teach my fellow American what bills or rights are all about.

 

[fallstuff]

The Wolf and the Lamb is a well known fable of Aesop referring to tyrannical injustice.

A wolf comes upon a lamb and, in order to justify taking its life, accuses it of various misdemeanors, all of which the lamb proves to be impossible. Losing patience, it says the offenses must have been committed by someone else in the family and that it does not propose to delay its meal by inquiring any further about the matter. The morals drawn are that the tyrant can always find an excuse for his tyranny and that the unjust will not listen to the reasoning of the innocent.

Link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wolf_and_the_Lamb

 

[Solomon2]

Making the comparison is meant to show the hypocrisy. Not sure how that shows my insensitivity...sensitivity didn't matter to the 'freedom loving people' when muslims were asking for it.

Sure it did. The degree and type of sensitivity is different here, which is why so many people don't accept charges of hypocrisy and for some reason you are entirely clueless when it comes to grasping this.

 

[Wounded Healer]

As I said, merely making the comparison is a display of your personal insensitivity. If you want to change that, you have to convince non-Muslims that you experience the same sort of grief and loss at the cartoons that they experienced when their loved ones were murdered.

Ahaan, what would, in your opinion, be the best way to express our grief and hurt regarding those caricatures? We have already taken our protests to the highest levels, requested and demanded that these damnable caricatures flying under the flag of freedom of expression be stopped and have boycotted the products of these countries. What more do you expect us to do?

Oh i guess, judging by the example that you people have set, i think you would expect us to invade non-muslim countries and kill thousands of non-muslims. I mean, thats what you did, did'nt you. But let me give you a simple answer, we are not like you.

Please, do not talk about "insensitivity", you hardly know the meaning of the word. This is just a new expression that has been propounded by the same people who are the flag-bearers of the so-called "freedom of expression". It is alright for you to do whatever you want, where ever you want, but constructing a community centre is insensitivity and inhumane.

Spare us the B.S. and your double standards please.

 

[mohsinkid]

i BEILIEVE,this is a conspiracy to implant and force more hatred towards muslims ..why in the world muslims wud sooo direly require mosque nowhere in the world but at that point ...where ppl hav emotional attachment..
in short its a deliberate effort to ruin,blame,hate,etc the ISLAM by the Anti-islamic forcesnothing more!!!

 

[Solomon2]

what would, in your opinion, be the best way to express our grief and hurt regarding those caricatures?

To tell non-Muslims more about the pain they cause you personally.

We have already taken our protests to the highest levels -

That's not dialogue. That's politics.

- requested and demanded that these damnable caricatures flying under the flag of freedom of expression be stopped -

And that's denying the U.S. Constitution.

- and have boycotted the products of these countries.

Causing economic injury only creates anger if you cannot demonstrate its justice.

What more do you expect us to do?

State your case cogently and truthfully to non-Muslims and Muslims alike. Open your hearts to non-Muslims.

Please, do not talk about "insensitivity", you hardly know the meaning of the word.

Opening your heart does not begin by denying the humanity of others.

 

[Wounded Healer]

^^^

I rest my case.

regards,

 

[TruthSeeker]

Well, the reality is that Americans, do, by and large, blame Islam for 9-11. It is not politically correct to acknowledge this because everyone, of course, knows this is "bigoted" and that Islam is "a religion of peace". But, on the other hand, it seems that all our blood enemies, the people who are killing Americans, are fervent followers of Islam, are they not? They even maintain that they are the very, very most authentic followers of Islam. So, Americans are confused between what they are told by the authorities and mainstream media ("religion of peace!") and what is actually happening around the world (wanton terrorism in the name of the Prophet). Privately and among trusted friends, Americans will acknowledge a fear that Islam is not a religion of peace and is dangerous to our freedoms, especially those of women. Hence, the "ground zero mosque" or the "Hamasoque" as Rush Limbaugh now calls it, is feared to be an advance of the darkness and is opposed. It is possible for Americans to believe in conspiracy theories, too. It is not only Pakistanis who can be misguided by their fears.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

It is not only Pakistanis who can be misguided by their fears.

Absolutely - and it is good to see that there are some in the US, as there are in Pakistan, willing to point out bigotry and prejudice when they see it.

Americans and Pakistanis, and people in general, really are not that different, despite all the hoopla created around the 'conspiracy theory believing Pakistanis who dislike America and consider it a threat'. Americans are just as susceptible to prejudice and 'conspiracy theories' as Pakistanis.

20% of Americans believe their President is secretly a Muslim, and over 70%, in opposing the NYC mosque, have subscribed to a position of prejudice towards an entire community.

It is time the American media start focusing on American prejudices and hate-mongering, instead of just maligning other nations and peoples.