The Great Asian Showdown: India’s Kolkata Class v/s China’s Type-52D Destroyer

[Carlosa]

Type 052D uses 30 mm CIWS for anti missile role.

Yes, Kolkata too, but a secondary role of a main gun is also anti aircraft fire which is very important if you don't have point defense systems at the front of the ship.

 

[Superboy]

Yes, Kolkata too, but a secondary role of a main gun is also anti aircraft fire which is very important if you don't have point defense systems at the front of the ship.

Type 730 is autonomous. Kolkata's are old ones that are not. AK 630.

 

[Carlosa]

No I lived in suburb. China has very effective central planning. Very prosperous. 50 square meters of house for every Chinese family. Spectacular natural scenes.

I go to china 3 or 4 times a year and I go to the factories which are often not in the high quality areas and I also go out into factories in rural areas, please don't tell me how things are in china.

Type 730 is autonomous. Kolkata's are old ones that are not. AK 630.

ALL of them are controlled by a radar, ALL of them. And by optoelectronic sensors also.

 

[Superboy]

I go to china 3 or 4 times a year and I go to the factories which are often not in the high quality areas and I also go out into factories in rural areas, please don't tell me how things are in china.

Go this year. The subways are amazing.

 

[kaku1]

Yes, Kolkata too, but a secondary role of a main gun is also anti aircraft fire which is very important if you don't have point defense systems at the front of the ship.

I believe the AK630 would be replaced by Barak-1 in first refit ( like the Delhi class destroyer), possibly in 2018 or 2019.

 

[Carlosa]

Go this year. The subways are amazing.

I already did and next month again.

Yes, the subways and trains are great, but that's just one part of china. China is not just downtown Shanghai.

I believe the AK630 would be replaced by Barak-1 in first refit ( like the Delhi class destroyer), possibly in 2018 or 2019.

That's a good idea, Barak 1 is so easy to fit and in quantity too.

 

[Superboy]

China is not just downtown Shanghai.

I was not in Shanghai. But then again, less than 1% of China's territory is inhabited.

That's a good idea, Barak 1 is so easy to fit and in quantity too.

052D uses Chinese made FL-2000N which is like RIM-116.

 

[kaku1]

These are no free breakfasts, everything has pros and cons.

Aegis has very powerful radar which can detect even small RCS targets at huge ranges and with high rate of update, but as result it is very heavy and located low, reducing the detection range of skimmering missiles. Its illumination radars are also very powerful and long range (can fire at 240 km), but they can only address 3 targets simultaneously (to sides, front - only 1).

Sachsen class destroyer has much higher located multifunctional AESA radar (APAR). It can detect skimmering missiles at longer range than Aegis and engage much more targets simultaneously. But its much smaller and as result max range is limited to 150 km (for low RCS even lower). It has also SMART-L radar for long range detection, but this radar has low update rate and it cant illuminate targets and make terminal guidance. The update rate especially important vs ballistic missiles.

Conclusion: Aegis is much better vs. ballistic targets and long range high flying targets. Sachsen is much better vs. big number of low flying targets.

Bro, whats your comment on RAN-40Lwhich going to be onboard on IAC-1 and P-15B as secondary radar with MF-STAR as primary.

I wonder if its possible to install booster version of Barak 8 into Kolkata.

Basic variant is 455 cm long and 275 kg weight. Booster variant according my estimates will be about 635 cm long and 580 kg weight. I dont see a reason why it cant fit into a Kolkata. With booster it can have some 150 km range easily.

HQ-9 is 680 cm long and 1300 kg weight for comparison.

I dont think Barak-8 ER goes to Kolkata, but definitely to Banglore.

 

[Carlosa]

I dont think Barak-8 ER goes to Kolkata, but definitely to Banglore.

It goes to Kolkate 15B for sure, I saw their announcement.

 

[Keel]

I go to China 3 or 4 times a year and I go to the factories which are often not in the high quality areas and I also go out into factories in rural areas, please don't tell me how things are in China.

which part(s) of China have you been to and in what kind of factories, I mean what do they produce?

Handcrafted and handpainted porcelain vase
Artist：张敏 Zhang Min

 

[Carlosa]

which part(s) of China have you been to and in what kind of factories, I mean what do they produce?

Handcrafted and handpainted porcelain vase
Artist：张敏 Zhang Min

Sculptures in resin or bronze. Dongguan, An Hui, etc.

which part(s) of China have you been to and in what kind of factories, I mean what do they produce?

Handcrafted and handpainted porcelain vase
Artist：张敏 Zhang Min

My point with him is, don't over do it, there is prosperity and poverty, both, the development is still very unequal.

 

[Donatello]

Hi @Carlosa,

The Mark 99 Illuminator can engage only a single target at a time, but it's only used for terminal guidance, or in other words "last second engagement". Multiple missiles can be airborne at any one time and the Mk 99 will be able to engage multiple targets near simultaneously because it doesn't need to illuminate a target except for when a missile enters terminal range. Because these times are very short, terminal range exists for less than a second on Navy missiles nearing their targets at mach 3+, the Mk 99 can engage many targets within a short time-frame.

This doesn't mean the AEGIS system can only engage one target or vector one missile, just that the Mk 99 can only illuminate one at a time, but that illumination time is really short and another target can be illuminated within instants of the previous.

Does this answer your question?

Source:

Part of it is from my professional experience with Navy systems, the other is from NAVAL RADARS (Military Weapons)

So MK99 provides the last 'lock' on target to the SM-2 missile? Is it because it is semi-active guided?

 

[Penguin]

Type 730 is autonomous. Kolkata's are old ones that are not. AK 630.

LOL, Even 730 depends on data from an external search radar. What you refer to is closed system, without man in the loop. That doesn't mean AK630 performs worse, though.

I believe the AK630 would be replaced by Barak-1 in first refit ( like the Delhi class destroyer), possibly in 2018 or 2019.

Why would you do that for a brand new ship....

So MK99 provides the last 'lock' on target to the SM-2 missile? Is it because it is semi-active guided?

Mk 99 = Missile Fire Control System

The radar system associated with the Mk 99 MFCS is the missile illuminator AN/SPG-62.

AN/SPG-62 RADAR.: I/JBand fire control radar.

The SPY-1 radar system detects and tracks targets and then points the SPG-62 toward the target, which in turn provides illumination for the terminal guidance of SM-2 missiles.

In order to track a target, you need a very narrow beam of RF energy. The narrower the beam, the more accurately you can tell if you have one target or multiple targets (this is called radar resolution). This narrow beam radar is normally a second radar that works with a primary search or track radar. The AN/SPG-62 illuminating radar works as a second radar with the AN/SPY-1 series radar.

E.g. on Ticonderoga class cruisers:

SM-2 is a SEMI-ACTIVE RADAR HOMING missile, which means it homes in on the reflection of radar energy from a target. The AN/SPG-62 is the radar that 'paints' the target with radar energy, causing the target to reflect radar energy that the missila can home in on.

 

[Jlaw]

which part(s) of China have you been to and in what kind of factories, I mean what do they produce?

Handcrafted and handpainted porcelain vase
Artist：张敏 Zhang Min

he can't asnwer your question because he hasn't been there to the extent he said he has.

Seriously, if you hate a country and its people that much, why would you go there? You will never see me go to india, nothing for me to see there plus I like my flushable sit down toilet at home.

I'm willing to bet he is lying. If you actually went to one of those huge manufacturing factories in Shenzhen--You will realize why China is a manufacturing powerhouse.

 

[kaku1]

Why would you do that for a brand new ship....

Not now, but in the first refit. I believe the sole reason for Barak 1 not able to make space in Kolkata was banning of IAI. But now its not at all problem.

The same thing was done on Delhi class, so why go backward in evolutionary ladder in our new ship?