The Future of Kashmir? "Seven" Possible Solutions!

[DESERT FIGHTER]

give links to back your claim.

The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Main News
PC: Sikh militancy resurfacing
R Sedhuraman
Tribune News Service

New Delhi, February 7
Home Minister P Chidambaram today said there were signs of re-emergence of Sikh militancy, but sought to downplay the issue saying this was not a serious problem.

“There are some signs of militant groups belonging to the Sikh community trying to raise their head in Punjab and Rajasthan,” Chidambaram told reporters while addressing the media at the end of a day-long conference of Chief Ministers on internal security here.

He said Rajasthan Chief Minister Ashok Gehlot raised the problem of Sikh militants entering his state at the conference.

“The Rajasthan Chief Minister did mention it. But in my assessment that is not a very acute problem… The Director-Generals of Police of Punjab as well as Rajasthan assured me that they could handle the problem.” The Haryana police chief also held similar views.........

 

[tiger1313]

First i am glad that we have someone who can talk about the hard issue and not troll.


May be not.

Just because the situation suits india, we cant just say that the status quo is the 'only solution possible now'.

If that be the case then;
-any tom dick and harry in the indian govt can invade Nepal,

-subdue the population there,

-and when the locals kick back the invader's arse and india finds that she would lose further territory, she runs to the UN,

-and works out a cease fire,

-and also agrees to hold a plebiscite,

-but then linger on the issue for long enough,

-and then unilaterally announce that it consider Nepal as an 'integral part of india' and tell the world that the proposal came from the so call State of Nepal (which infact was a disputed territory) Government (or a puppet govt would be a better phrase to be used here) that formed a constituent assembly which debated and gave its reasoned conclusion regarding the accession of the Naplese State to the indian union, (as if the UN resolution meant nothing or should i say they committed a felony by negating a mutually agreed to proposal)

-and then without any logic blatantly and shamelessly announce that as india thinks/considers that now the UN resolution has lost its demeanor so it has decided to accede Nepal to itself! Bravo!! Oh please, spare me the BS!!

No one wants to annihilate anyone.

The issue is quite lucid, a free and fair plebiscite.

It won't happen, even u know it.
Sorry, i dont trust you.


Yeah right!

Jungle raj, right?


That's what you think.

It's just another lame excuse to confuse the already complicated issue of Kashmir.

If you can call our NAs as 'disputed' (that's funny man) but we cant call an actually disputed area (which the world recognize as disputed) as disputed!

Azad Kashmir was liberated and is a self governing entity. NAs were never in question, until india brought it to thicken the mud!




You first need to give your 80% night blind tanks some eyes, and also stop giving statements that tells us that your military is not battle worthy until 2027.

Thanks for the concern, we 're workin on it.
i appreciate if we have something on the table to discuss, but if the usual stubbornness and hypocrisy has to continue from the indian side, nothing can be achieved!


Well that's what you think.

Try liberating Kashmir and all of your insurgencies would become a nightmare overnight

Seriously, i would require a legal size paper only to jot down the acronyms of these insurgencies, and you tell me that it's no bid deal for you people?!

And guess what, armies have never tired off insurgents, but the insurgents definitely have tired off the occupiers and what i like about this phenomenon is that the history concedes to this fact.

May be you need to read history again

Sir, u cannot compare the two scenarios u depicted. Pakistan's invasion of Baluchaistan is closer to the scenario u mentioned. KASHMIR ACCEDED TO INDIA LEGALLY. Thats not BS.
Not necessarily.


NA were always a part of J & K. Pl read history - real history.

I will read history, I do not claim to be mr know all. However, solution can only be found after one realises what is possible to achieve and what is not.

 

[karan.1970]

Let's stick to India and Pakistan, rest of the world considers it a disputed territory and has never said that plebiscite is no more an option. The UN resolution still stands but it does not mean we cannot work out another way if agreeable to the parties actually affected by this conflict, Pakistan, India and Kashmiris.

I think the joint control option would be best as it would also help in the water dispute since both India and Pakistan would have access to the area through a third party which can also be taken as a mediator.

It shall be a major pain initially to work out a working model but if done sincerely it shall help resolve all possible issues there are between our two countries and ease the life for the Kashmiris.

I agree that the world does not say that its no longer an option but its also true that any one hardly brings it up as an option except Pakistan. Most players in the international arena consider IB=LOC as the easiest option.

I fully agree with your last paragraph around initial difficulties and the fact that they can be surmounted if approached sincerely. Fingers crossed.. Something seems to be brewing up if I go by Haq's note on back channel talks..

 

[EjazR]

Before denouncing the www.peacepolls.org report it would be a good idea to look at the Israel-Palestine report as well for comparison

For example
80% of Palestinians consider suicide bombings in Israel as essential or desirable

While in Kashmir 80+% want violence to stop on all sides including the militants. The opposite sentiment compared to Palestinians.


The J&K that is disputed in the UN resolutions was the entire state of J&K that also includes Gilgit-Balitistan. And I don't see why the GoI should be defensive on the UN resolutions and its probably just a lack of diplomatic skills and their hesitance in tackling the problem.

What the opinions polls in the valley suggest is clearly that indepenace of the entire J&K is what they want. They don't want to segregate from Jammu or Ladakh or GB. But the residents of other parts don't agree with the valley majority opinion. So what will the plebiscite solve? Particularly because it doesn't have the option for independence.

Here is a good read on what the UN resolutions really require.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/37724-bogey-un-resolutions-jammu-kashmir.html

Infact, I might go ahead and say that why doesn't the GoP conduct a plebescite in its area of J&K to put pressure on India. We all know that it was only last year that politcal rights were given in GB, so there is certainly more political freedom in India than in Pakistan when it comes to expressing pro-Independence viewpoints.

Here is a UNHCR report on Pakistan Kashmir which ironically declares Azad Kashmri as "Not free"
UNHCR | Refworld | Freedom in the World 2009 - Kashmir [Pakistan]

Note that it mentions the presence of pro-independence groups in Pakistan as well.

The Indian report for comparison
UNHCR | Refworld | Freedom in the World 2009 - Kashmir [India]

Like I mentioned before, the day GoP will clearly spell out its stand on wether it support the independence of a united J&K that will include GB as well, will be the day the separatist movement will fail to confuse the locals anymore.

If you want to resolve the valley in line with the aspirations of ONLY the valley separatists, then a significant number will want independence. Is Pakistan willing to cede GB and Kashmir on its side to the new state? GoP has never clarified this.

 

[dabong1]

Before denouncing the www.peacepolls.org report it would be a good idea to look at the Israel-Palestine report as well for comparison

For example
80% of Palestinians consider suicide bombings in Israel as essential or desirable

While in Kashmir 80+% want violence to stop on all sides including the militants. The opposite sentiment compared to Palestinians.


The J&K that is disputed in the UN resolutions was the entire state of J&K that also includes Gilgit-Balitistan. And I don't see why the GoI should be defensive on the UN resolutions and its probably just a lack of diplomatic skills and their hesitance in tackling the problem.

What the opinions polls in the valley suggest is clearly that indepenace of the entire J&K is what they want. They don't want to segregate from Jammu or Ladakh or GB. But the residents of other parts don't agree with the valley majority opinion. So what will the plebiscite solve? Particularly because it doesn't have the option for independence.

Here is a good read on what the UN resolutions really require.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/37724-bogey-un-resolutions-jammu-kashmir.html

Infact, I might go ahead and say that why doesn't the GoP conduct a plebescite in its area of J&K to put pressure on India. We all know that it was only last year that politcal rights were given in GB, so there is certainly more political freedom in India than in Pakistan when it comes to expressing pro-Independence viewpoints.

Here is a UNHCR report on Pakistan Kashmir which ironically declares Azad Kashmri as "Not free"
UNHCR | Refworld | Freedom in the World 2009 - Kashmir [Pakistan]

Note that it mentions the presence of pro-independence groups in Pakistan as well.

The Indian report for comparison
UNHCR | Refworld | Freedom in the World 2009 - Kashmir [India]

Like I mentioned before, the day GoP will clearly spell out its stand on wether it support the independence of a united J&K that will include GB as well, will be the day the separatist movement will fail to confuse the locals anymore.

If you want to resolve the valley in line with the aspirations of ONLY the valley separatists, then a significant number will want independence. Is Pakistan willing to cede GB and Kashmir on its side to the new state? GoP has never clarified this.

No problem......lets get the NA-AJK-IOK to have a vote......either freedom...join pakistan or india.......ru guys willing to have a vote under the UN or international observers?

 

[PAFAce]

No problem......lets get the NA-AJK-IOK to have a vote......either freedom...join pakistan or india.......ru guys willing to have a vote under the UN or international observers?

No they're not, and we know why.

Open border is ideally correct, but practically difficult if not impossible.

Converting LoC into IB is practically possible but ideally incorrect.

Anything else is just good for Internet battles.

In the rest of your usual feces-spillage, this was refreshing. Compromise can be reached between these two ideas. Semi-open border with 50/50 split of the Valley (or something like that). Allow the people to choose which part they would like to reside in. Everything happens under international observers, the UN and a joint Indo-Pak party.

 

[Xeric]

Why, have you withdrawn all your 'citizens and tribals' from P0K?

O wait. Its the usual brain barf.

Hey smarta$$, can you show me a 'tribal' in Kashmir?

Prove it to me, phulease!

You claim to have started the genocide in Kashmir in late 80s, right? So how many tribals have you killed/captured since then? Let's see how many you can bring up out of those 80K that you have massacred in Kashmir.

Also did you forget it was india that backed out from the 'troops withdrawal' BS!

Gosh, you have a thicker skull than i thought!

 

[toxic_pus]

No they're not, and we know why.

No you don't. You do pretend to know though.

In the rest of your usual feces-spillage...

You mean your arguments have finally lost their legs to stand on? Not that they had any.

Compromise can be reached between these two ideas. Semi-open border with 50/50 split of the Valley (or something like that). Allow the people to choose which part they would like to reside in. Everything happens under international observers, the UN and a joint Indo-Pak party.

What is 'semi-open border'. Either border is closed or its open. Closed means, crossing the border would require permission, e.g. passport or visa. If border can be crossed without permit then it is open.

There can't be any compromise between open border and LoC=IB. It is an either/or choice.

Your option is basically your previous option, dressed to look different.

 

[Xeric]

^^ That's it?

 

[sur]

How do YOU see the future of Kashmir?

I see it becoming part of Pakistan..... around 2022 InshALLAH (Link)

 

[Hellfire]

The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Main News
PC: Sikh militancy resurfacing
R Sedhuraman
Tribune News Service

New Delhi, February 7
Home Minister P Chidambaram today said there were signs of re-emergence of Sikh militancy, but sought to downplay the issue saying this was not a serious problem.

“There are some signs of militant groups belonging to the Sikh community trying to raise their head in Punjab and Rajasthan,” Chidambaram told reporters while addressing the media at the end of a day-long conference of Chief Ministers on internal security here.

He said Rajasthan Chief Minister Ashok Gehlot raised the problem of Sikh militants entering his state at the conference.

“The Rajasthan Chief Minister did mention it. But in my assessment that is not a very acute problem… The Director-Generals of Police of Punjab as well as Rajasthan assured me that they could handle the problem.” The Haryana police chief also held similar views.........

residual and more on nuisance value .....

best ignored and only certain quarters who have nothing much to do are giving it any import

even Indian News Channel need to find things to sell their channels .... ever had the chance to watch India TV/Aaj Tak? It gives out more crap even on Pakistan than one can digest ......

its like giving credence to a group of few men in Texas wanting independence from US!!!!!

The issue is dead ..... and its not valid anymore ..... so dont derail the thread please

 

[Hellfire]

Well you have started behaving now, guud for you.

Anywaz, the constitution that you talk of can be reverted with the same ease as it was enacted.

Dont tell me that your constitution is something that cant be altered, if you can defy the entire UN resolution at your will and can amend your constitution to suite yourself, the same thing can be done again.
Moreover, the solution that you and some other propose (of joint control thingy) is acceptable only if a plebiscite is held both in Azad Kashmir and indian occupied kashmir.

for the highlighted part : Pakistan did the same ... it refused to follow condition one ... of removal of all military and paramiltary personnel inclusive of civillians of Pakistani origin from the whole area of J&K ....

rest you know is history so lets not go that ways again

as for azad kashmir - the issue is the change in the demographic composition there with active settlement of retired pakistani army regulars in the region which has changed the population content of the region ..... save for pockets in Norther Area/Gilgit where you have some unrest (insignificant for now) ... so the question of plebiscite is also defunct and non-workable

the only issue is bifurcation of the territories in line with present holdings ie recognition of the LC as IB and end to the whole debate

as for support for muslim brethren, straight forward, give them the option to stay put in India or give a safe passage to Pakistan, as they desire

Am sure that will be a very suitable option .... but not even GoP will want the population ONLY ....

in the end ... its the question of territory and the religious affinities and brotherhood are mere tools ..........

 

[PAFAce]

Hey dumba$$

Shows your class, really. Just a childish troll, that is all you are. An embarrassment to your own countrymen.

 

[karan.1970]

^^^

Hey smarta$$

and is this the same???

 

[Xeric]

^^ It's funny how these guys rush saving others back.

And Karan, i think you also need lessons in inglish.