The Future of Kashmir? "Seven" Possible Solutions!

[vsdoc]

Welcome back DoctorJee

Thanks Abu.

Cheers, Doc

 

[vsdoc]

Kya doc, sending mix signals...

IMO , we should stop treating Kashmiris as what in call in Odiya "Galellha pua" any longer and better take off the kid gloves.

whie People of in parts of North East have may have a sense of alienation for India, where as Muslims of Kashmir think Kashmir problem is unfinished business of partition ,a division whose genesis lies in the so called two nation theory.

So Kashmiri separatism has everything to do with religion rather than less communal ideas like ethnicity or language .There is hardly any ethnic difference between Kashmiri Muslims with no sense belonging for for the Indian state always asking special this or that and Kashmir pundits ,a group who worked tirelessly putting the foundation of the country .

So No amount of conciliatory gonna effort can the change the mindset that India ,a Hindu nation has occupied their land(Kashmir valley) where Muslims are in 90% majority especially under the current status quo prevailing there even the pro India party national conference demands more rights and less interference of India. .

I don't know why Patel and Nehru kept that part of Kashmir valley under Indian control. It may be only due to water resources or Kashmir being ancestral home of Nehru or . Anyway since we have it now,we cant go just set Kashmir free ,the virus may spread to other parts of India.

So the way out is,doing opposite what we have done in last sixty years.For having special status and little integration with the Indian state for so many years have made Kashmiris carry baggage of being out of mainstream India and consider themselves different from rest of the Indians.

So remove article 370 and Stop giving special status to whole the J & K.Take out Jammu and laddak from the J & K state , make it part main stream India.I know people of Jammu and Laddak would support us whole heartedly in it.

Stop giving so much Central assistance to the state,its going anyway in to the pockets of Abdullahs instead of common Kashmiri .Had these funds been used among the tribals of central India ,we wouldn't have the Maoist problem we are facing today.


Threaten the valley politicians with dire consequence like handing the valley to Pakistan where they can continue their independence struggle.

Change the demography of Kashmir and make it less Muslim and more Indian.

Do whatever needed ,but we must break the box kept that Kashmir as a separate special entity called "J & K" and if gonna we keep it untouched ,someday day the box will fall off the Indian deck and all our investment made with money,lives of our men would go in vain.

PS:welcome back doc .

Nahin Raghu mere bhai, if you read each of my posts chronologically as a set of steps as part of a complete strategy, instead of just picking up a single post which you may not agree with, you will realise that both of us are on absolutely the same page, though our methods may differ. How could we not? We are both Indians, and India is as united on Kashmir as we are on our cricket team, whichever way you want to read it!

Of course we can go into Kashmir with a heavy hand and say its our way or the highway. Who is going to stop us? But doing that leaves us with a lot of residual headaches and bad blood for our future generations. We need to use the stick on those that deserve it, I am 100% with you on that. But in doing so, let us not foster an us vs them feeling in the valley. That will only alienate the moderates who are fed up and are coming around. We need to sweeten the deal for them. We need to make them feel as if they are willing participants.

We need to balance our stick with a carrot. Simple.

Of course I see that religion has a big part to play in this. Everyone does. But Raghu, India today and for centuries has had hindus and muslims living together. Why should Kashmiri muslims be treated any differently to muslims living elsewhere in India? You are right, they may believe or may have been led to believe that they are different. But it is up to us to change their beliefs. Break down the walls. And as a first step towards that, I believe it would be in our interests to first get them into the mainstream of the Indian muslim community.

Once that happens, they automatically become part of the Indian community as a whole. When you buy a fish from the market, you do not come home and directly open the polythene bag and plop it into your fish tank. You first empty it into a small bowl to get it acclimatized to the salinity and the temperature change. The next transfer into the bigger tank then becomes much easier. Something like that.

At the end of the day the integrity of the nation is not negotiable. Kashmir is not negotiable. What is negotiable is how we achieve that. Don't get me wrong. For someone who is against my country, I can be as militant as you if not more. But sometimes you need to put aside your justifiable anger and think with your head rather than your heart.

To repeat. Indianise Kashmiri kids of today into fully integrated Indian citizens of tomorrow. Marginalise and make irrelevant those adults who dream of Pakistan. Talk to those adults who dream of azadi. That done, either get them on our side or repeat the above. Provide hope and a higher standard of living and employment and security to the rest.

Industrialise Kashmir and bring it into the Indian mainstream. Along with talent from the rest of India, hand in hand with the locals. Which includes a return of the pandits to their homeland. That is their birth right and is not negotiable. Remove the army to the periphery to guard against the external enemy and secure our borders. Maintain law and order increasingly with civilian law enforcement that is of the people and by the people.

Invest in Kashmir. Not just in Kashmiris.

Now some corrections. India does not fight for Kashmir because of strategic reasons or water or ego or the fear of snowballing communicable separatism. India fights for Kashmir because Kashmir is Indian. Simple. Any other reason is a figment of fertile imaginations who would like to ascribe motives where there are none and miss the forest for the trees.

Secondly, I do not agree that Jammu and Ladakh should be separated from our current J&K. For the following reasons. When an individual is ill with a communicable disease, you may quarantine him. But if an organ of the body is diseased, you do evertthing in your power to save it and bring it back to health and full function along with the rest of the body. You do not cut it off to treat it separately, in the hope that somewhere down the line you will join it back IF it recovers. That just does not happen.

I know there is a lot of rumbling within Jammu at being "unnecessarily" clubbed and burdened with Kashmir. But Jammu is predominantly hindu. And in clubbing it with Kashmir we tell the world that our states are not and never will be built along the lines of religion. Also it sends a strong and clear message across to those who claim to have an interest in this "disputed" region. That its a package deal, much as "they" may like to conveniently compartmentalize it as per their mindsets and ideologies and references from the hoary past to suit their "claims". So I am sorry I do not agree. Jammu and Ladakh remain married to Kashmir as far as I am concerned. What you are suggesting is actually weakens our position.

Thirdly, it is fallacious to theorize that our maoist problem could somehow probably have been better or averted had we spent some of the central funds being spent on Kashmir on our heartland tribal areas. The maoists problem is there because for 60 years India has forgotten that those parts of India exist. Except for the politician-industry-mafia nexus which has bled and sucked those regions dry and exploited and marginalised the tribals as you do an irritating pest that inhabits an area of desired benefit and needs to be shunted out of sight and out of mind at the earliest, if not exterminated. You are from Orissa. I am from Bihar (now Jharkhand). We have both seen how the adivasis live. The santhalis, the sambalpuris. And we have both seen the "other" India as well. Do you really feel that the country is lacking in resources to bring up those people because of a Kashmir-centric resource crunch?

Cheers, Doc

P.S. Thanks for the welcome back brother. Its good to be back with you guys again.

 

[ejaz007]

Indian colonel killed in IHK gunfight: army

SRINAGAR: An Indian army colonel has been killed in a gun battle with militants in Kupwara district of Indian-held Kashmir, Indian military spokesman Lt Colonel Vineet Sood said on Wednesday.

“We have lost a colonel during a fierce overnight gun battle with militants in Kupwara,” the spokesman told AFP. He said the fighting erupted when Indian troops launched an operation in the forested area of Lolab, a lush green valley dubbed as the fruit bowl of Jammu and Kashmir.

BBC reported that Colonel Neeraj Sood was leading troops when he was gunned down by the militants in Lolab. The military spokesman said that the operation against the militants was still continuing in the forested Lolab areas. He said that reinforcements had been rushed to the area. agencies

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

which Kashmiri seperatist group claimed responsibility?

 

[aristocrat]

Hard to find a solution that satisfies both nations.If india gives up kashmir ,then the entire nation will be consumed by riots and demands of similar kind.There will be huge outcry in Pakistan too, if it does the same.So honestly i dont see a solution for kashmir problem ,atleast in the coming decade

 

[RollingStones]

Hard to find a solution that satisfies both nations.If india gives up kashmir ,then the entire nation will be consumed by riots and demands of similar kind.There will be huge outcry in Pakistan too, if it does the same.So honestly i dont see a solution for kashmir problem ,atleast in the coming decade

I see some solutions

1. I dont think there ever will be a redrawing of the boundaries. One thing India and pakistani governments could do is to allow people in the Kashmir valley who like Pakistan to go to Pakistan. Perhaps, their moving expenses and a down payment for a house in Pakistan can be borne by the Indian Government, reducing the burden on Pakistan. It appears that most of the people clamoring for freedom are poor, illiterate SriNagar downtown folks. So, it is not that the Indian Government has to compensate them with land.
2. Allow people from Pakistani Kashmir and Indian Kashmir to live and work in both countries - free movement of people and trade.
3. Absorb the respective Kashmirs into the national fabric of each country. And remove any special status given to them. Trade and investment cannot be one way. It is always two sided.
4. Demilitarize and reduce military expenditure.

 

[aristocrat]

I see some solutions

1. I dont think there ever will be a redrawing of the boundaries. One thing India and pakistani governments could do is to allow people in the Kashmir valley who like Pakistan to go to Pakistan. Perhaps, their moving expenses and a down payment for a house in Pakistan can be borne by the Indian Government, reducing the burden on Pakistan. It appears that most of the people clamoring for freedom are poor, illiterate SriNagar downtown folks. So, it is not that the Indian Government has to compensate them with land.

This would be seen as sign of weakness (read failure) by the indian gov.no politician is evn bold enough to implement that.

2. Allow people from Pakistani Kashmir and Indian Kashmir to live and work in both countries - free movement of people and trade.

improbable,any disturbance on indian side will be attributed to pakistan sponsored terrorism and vice versa.

3. Absorb the respective Kashmirs into the national fabric of each country. And remove any special status given to them. Trade and investment cannot be one way. It is always two sided.

agreed

4. Demilitarize and reduce military expenditure.[/QUOTE]
again

 

[ejaz007]

Musharraf was at brink of Kashmir solution: India
Updated at: 0850 PST, Wednesday, July 07, 2010

HOUSTON – Raja Zahid Akhter Khanzada: The president Indian Supreme Court Bar Association (ISCBA), the chairman Kashmir Committee and a member of Rajeya Sabha Ram Jethmalani disclosed Tuesday Kashmir issue could have been long resolved peacefully if General Musharrf, the then Pakistani President, would remain in power for a little longer, Geo news reported.

Judiciary has no power to meddle with constitution legislated by a parliament, he observed.

He was talking to Jang/Geo news here in Houston city of Texas after attending a convention hosted by Sindhi Association of North America (SANA) on Tuesday.

Pervez Musharraf was at brink of resolving Kashmir issue practically before being destabilized by political turmoil in Pakistan, sending automatically the matter in limbo again, he revealed.

He said, “It is no longer a secret now that president Musharraf sent us a document carrying acceptable recommendations and proposals for solution of Kashmir Issue for two sides.”

“Subsequently, I myself, worked on those proposals being chairman of Kashmir Committee, made slight changes and produced them before mass representatives”, he said adding, “but time did not permit Musharraf.”

He hoped Kashmir Row would be resolved soon.

Musharraf was at brink of Kashmir solution: India

 

[Rehan007]

Scenario 6 would be good as it would give independence to the Kashmiris.

 

[owcc]

Enough bickering over .LOC for border anyday.

 

[niaz]

Every one in Pakistan must realize that we tried many times but failed to take Kashmir thru military means. India is not going to gift Kashmir to us. Only other solution which could be acceptable to the Kashmiris (Kashmir belongs to the Kashmiris, not to India or Pakistan) would be to make the border between Azad Kashmir and IOK immaterial for the Kashmiris; something like US/Canada.

This solution, though only one feasible, implies that Pakistan is in effect giving up on Kashmir and accepting India’s occupation.

Had this come about, bigoted politicians would have had a field day in Pakistan as well as in India. It is good that Musharraf’s plan remained unfulfilled else he would have been hounded out of Pakistan for selling out on Kashmir.

 

[Brotherhood]

BBC News - Curfew enforced in Kashmir towns 7 July 2010


Indian police are struggling to control a wave of protests

A curfew is being strictly enforced in parts of Indian-administered Kashmir after a wave of violence between protesters and police over the past month.

Police and paramilitaries have been deployed in the capital Srinagar where three civilians died in police firing on Tuesday.

Anantnag, Pulwana and Kakapora towns are also under curfew.

At least 14 civilians have died in clashes with forces since June.

Many of the deaths have been blamed on the paramilitary Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF).
Restricted

Life in Srinagar has come to a standstill, and movement of people has been restricted in other affected towns, says the BBC's Altaf Hussain in Srinagar.

Our correspondent says that the curfew in Anantnag has now been in place for eight consecutive days - since three people were killed by police there last week - and there is no sign of the tension diminishing.

A police spokesman said the authorities have decided to deploy the army in some sensitive areas, but no soldiers are out on the streets yet.

Most of the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley has either been under a curfew or shut down for the past few weeks because of protests over the killing of civilians by the police and paramilitary forces.

Chief Minister Omar Abdullah has defended the security forces, saying they could not be expected constantly to show restraint when they were so often pelted with stones.

The killings of civilian protesters, most of them teenagers, have angered many in the valley.

One newspaper headline described 2010 as the "year of teenage killings" in Kashmir.

Even the pro-India People's Democratic Party (PDP) has accused the government of declaring war on its own people, our correspondent reports.

Hundreds of thousands of troops are based in Kashmir to fight a two-decade insurgency against Indian rule.

 

[vsdoc]

Every one in Pakistan must realize that we tried many times but failed to take Kashmir thru military means. India is not going to gift Kashmir to us. Only other solution which could be acceptable to the Kashmiris (Kashmir belongs to the Kashmiris, not to India or Pakistan) would be to make the border between Azad Kashmir and IOK immaterial for the Kashmiris; something like US/Canada.

Sir, without going into who Kashmir belongs to, something on which we will never see eye to eye, let me just say that a loosely porous LOC between J&K and Azad Kashmir with free ingress and egress of "Kashmiris" is never going to work, nor is it going to be acceptable to India for obvious security reasons.

Today with a hard LOC and high troop density, we hear of encounters with terrorists crossing over from Pakistan (under convenient covering fire by the regular PA) every second day. What is it going to be like with a free for all namesake line on a map as per your suggestion?

Secondly, and most importantly, who are these "Kashmiris" going to be? Who is going to decide that? On what basis? And who is going to police them to ensure that they are really who they claim to be? Again in the current climate of suspicion and the residual bad blood of the past 6 decades, this is neither a viable nor an acceptable solution.

Once we do that, we will slowly have a creeping exodus of Pakistani "Kashmiris" come over this side, with or without malintention, and in all likelihood staying on. Who does the Governement of India provide for? And how does the Governemnt of India ensure that the "Kashmiris" from your side who are coming over, are actually returning, and not permanently staying back at the cost of the displacement of our local Kashmiris?

And more importantly from a security point of view, how does the Governemnt of India ensure that Pakistanis coming over as Kashmiris stay put within the Indian state boundaries of Kashmir, and not start drifting across to Jammu and then to Punjab and Himachal and Uttaranchal and so on and so forth? Are we going to then have a second army patrolled LOC to maintain J&K as a holding area within our own country?

I am sorry sir, but you are talking about trying to make oil and water mix.

You have the lethal virus of the Taliban in your country talking about joining your Army to wage Jihad against India. You have various other malignant tumors like the LET and JUD and others of their ilk. Should India instead of shoring up its borders to protect its population from such disease, open the gates and let them in?

Partition far from being neatly surgical, was the violent ripping apart of the body of our motherland. 60+ years have allowed the wounds to heal, and scar over. Except Kashmir, which like a diabetic sore keeps on and on and on oozing blood and pustulence. It is time to cauterize that one opening once and for all, and separate the child from the umblical cord joining it to its mother.

Its time for Pakistan to move on. On its own.

Cheers, Doc

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Once we do that, we will slowly have half of impoverished Pakistan suddenly becoming "Kashmiri" to come over to the more prosperous side, with or without malintention.

Lets stop flaming and trolling shall we, however much you might try to cloak it in your posts.

Indian per capita socio-economic indicators are largely close to those of Pakistan, and until the disparity in those indicators increases significantly, there is nothing that India, with its own hundreds of millions of impoverished living in slums and lacking basic sanitation facilities, offers to the impoverished Pakistani.

 

[vsdoc]

Indian per capita socio-economic indicators are largely close to those of Pakistan, and until the disparity in those indicators increases significantly, there is nothing that India, with its own hundreds of millions of impoverished living in slums and lacking basic sanitation facilities, offers to the impoverished Pakistani.

Tell that to your cricket stars, starlets, poets, singers, writers, and journalists who inspite of not living in slums, having above average per capita household incomes, and managing to have a loo with running water at home, still find India an irresistible destination to come to professionally.

Also tell that to the parents of the Pakistani kids who come over by the planeload month after month to get congenital cardiac abnormalities operated on by Indian doctors.

Tell that to the hugely overwhelming percentage of educated rich (including toilet) Pakistani youth who leave the shores of their country (more often than not for good) for better prospects, as equally a huge overwhelming percentage of educated middle-class Indian youth choose to stay behind or come back to their own country.

Its absolutely ok to be proudly nationalistic AM, but sometimes you need to bow to facts, unpalatable as they might be. Cloaked or not.

However, I've promised some close Pakistani friends of mine to be a good boy this time around. So if you feel I was trolling or that the language was dangerously close to the inappropriate line, please let me know and I will gladly edit my post buddy.

Cheers, Doc