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The Future of Kashmir? "Seven" Possible Solutions!

Ohh I see an unnecessary "pride" of a status holder of PDF..
The 'salutation' was directed at the other guy.

But then how would you know, you all are from the same league to which ramgrour belongs to.

Too bad.

Killing protester or rioters is one thing and target killing of Hindu/Sikh minorities by so called "Freedom Fighters" is another thing.. I hope you understand the same..

Killing whom ever without (justified) cause is regrettable. Hindu Muslims do not figure out in this case. The issue is that you people have been regretting the loss of a Punditian life whereas you shamelessly feel pride over killing of innocents during the riots - i am not taking in consideration the freedom fighters for now. Killing or fighting them is a separate issue, let's just focus on those protesters whose only crime was to throw a few stones on one of the largest military of the world!

And then a genius on this thread claims that the scale of rioting differ in both the case (Kashmir and the West), while forgetting that it was these criminal killings that fueled the protest that it had prolonged out of your control.

wait you are Think tank .. how would you not know this ;)

Oh, how would you know that..?? Wow...you must have special powers to see that blue tag, right there. Hmmm...muttonheads are growing smarter with the increased post count..!!


Here you come up with your dubious thought process and hypocrisy. Kashmiri is Kashmiri and no Muslims and Hindus.. If you are talking about Kashmiri Independance then you have to consider the minorities in that area.. Otherwise you are nothing but behaving on religious bigotry like Geelani.. Go think.. Think tank.....

Lolzzz...

An e-warrior belonging to a country where minorities have been butchered in the past and still continue tells me how to deal with minorities!! Ouch, my stomach aches!!

Ok, anywaz, yes Kashmiri is a Kashmiri, no Muslim no hindu. Moreover, i have never exactly longed for an independent Kashmir, i have not even asked for Kashmir joining Pakistan!! The only thing that i want is that the Kashmiris MUST be given the right of self-determination and they LONE should decide their course of life!! Not you, not me!

i have been writing this all over this thread, but alas boneheads would remain boneheads. ;)
 
The 'salutation' was directed at the other guy.

But then how would you know, you all are from the same league to which ramgrour belongs to.

Too bad.

Lets drop it here as this was due to confusion..

Killing whom ever without (justified) cause is regrettable. Hindu Muslims do not figure out in this case. The issue is that you people have been regretting the loss of a Punditian life whereas you shamelessly feel pride over killing of innocents during the riots - i am not taking in consideration the freedom fighters for now. Killing or fighting them is a separate issue, let's just focus on those protesters whose only crime was to throw a few stones on one of the largest military of the world!

And then a genius on this thread claims that the scale of rioting differ in both the case (Kashmir and the West), while forgetting that it was these criminal killings that fueled the protest that it had prolonged out of your control.
Now as you are talking sensibly l must say that we (or specifically I) condemn any kind of killings as loss of human is human irrespective of religion. This is the only reason it frustates me when Kashmir uprising is 'colored' religiously as killing of Muslims. It is also observed that all sympathisers of Kashmiris deliberatly miss Kashmir Pundits and Sikhs community while they believe whole J&K (Jammu and Laddakh) is on uprising.
Regarding killing, The only problem is the violent protest and getting in return of favor. many of times these killings are framed by "Freedom fighters" or Separatist to serve their purpose as well.

Oh, how would you know that..?? Wow...you must have special powers to see that blue tag, right there. Hmmm...muttonheads are growing smarter with the increased post count..!!

Better try to hit me harder as this did not felt an impact.. I am visiting this forum for almost 3-4 years and joined exact 1 year ago to respond stupidity. Hence increasing post counts and getting thanks is not in my agenda..:no::no:

I have already seen here in this forum reaching on top without using punctuations or posting in logical section.. Dont make me to believe that you are in the same league..

Lolzzz...

An e-warrior belonging to a country where minorities have been butchered in the past and still continue tells me how to deal with minorities!! Ouch, my stomach aches!!
Well, we butchered the Minorities and still it grew up to a satisfiable levels while same is vice versa from your side.. Yups you should look back and take some tablets for your stomach aches.

Ok, anywaz, yes Kashmiri is a Kashmiri, no Muslim no hindu. Moreover, i have never exactly longed for an independent Kashmir, i have not even asked for Kashmir joining Pakistan!! The only thing that i want is that the Kashmiris MUST be given the right of self-determination and they LONE should decide their course of life!! Not you, not me!

i have been writing this all over this thread, but alas boneheads would remain boneheads. ;)

This is what I expect from a Thinktank (I am serious this time).. Please convey the same to other Elite Member who does care for only one relgion..
I am also up for the cause and hence criticize always stance of GoI and GoP.. No body wants army or terrorist on their ground.. Let them live.. Self determination or Independance is a political matter which can be handled lately but "ATLEAST" let them live...
 
Lets drop it here as this was due to confusion..
:coffee:


Now as you are talking sensibly

Oooooooo...!!! (like the one in that intel i3/5/7 ad), i am flattered..!!

l must say that we (or specifically I) condemn any kind of killings as loss of human is human irrespective of religion.
That's commendable, but then i dont see your fellow countrymen doing the same.

This is the only reason it frustates me when Kashmir uprising is 'colored' religiously as killing of Muslims.
Well that's natural. If only Muslims are being killed presently, the color and flavor would automatically set in.

Ever wonder why only Muslims are throwing stones..?? Only if you people had 'wondered', things would have been much better.

Now what frustrates me is that fact that why would a need arise for these Kashmiris to protest or take stones in their hands? Have you people ever given a thought towards this? No! instead you are busy justifying killings of innocents stone pelters. You know, that's reactive, i wish you people could have been proactive - not giving any reason to the Kashmiris to take law into their hands.

It is also observed that all sympathisers of Kashmiris deliberatly miss Kashmir Pundits and Sikhs community while they believe whole J&K (Jammu and Laddakh) is on uprising.

Arent we talking of 2010?

Even then Sikhs and Pundits are 'happy' in the present status quo, Muslims are not, so there isnt much concern from that corner. This should give your policy makers some food for though, but then it has failed to do so repeatedly.

Regarding killing, The only problem is the violent protest and getting in return of favor. many of times these killings are framed by "Freedom fighters" or Separatist to serve their purpose as well.

Again the fault lies with your policies. Banning SMS, FB etc etc would only yield bitterness and a ripened opportunity for your terrorists and our freedom fighters (i use 'ours' loosely) to make the most out of the situation.

How guud it had been if the Kashmiri youth had rejected (the alleged) support from ISI and fighters and instead had listened to your batons. We call it winning hearts and minds, i dont know how it is used in your part of the world.

Better try to hit me harder as this did not felt an impact..
May be you want that i should start using 'rectal orifice', but then i dont come that low.

I am visiting this forum for almost 3-4 years and joined exact 1 year ago to respond stupidity. Hence increasing post counts and getting thanks is not in my agenda..:no::no:

I have already seen here in this forum reaching on top without using punctuations or posting in logical section.. Dont make me to believe that you are in the same league..

If you have been actually visiting PDF since the last 3-4 years and you still believe what you have told me, then i must say that you are either lieing or are gravely mistaken in your assessment!

Well, we butchered the Minorities and still it grew up to a satisfiable levels while same is vice versa from your side.. Yups you should look back and take some tablets for your stomach aches.

Seriously, you dont want me turning this thread into one of those threads where we would post so many links (regarding atrocities against minorities) that some indian started to believe that they are no more one, but then you have been visiting this forum since the last 3-4 years, who could know this better than you ;)


This is what I expect from a Thinktank (I am serious this time).. Please convey the same to other Elite Member who does care for only one relgion..

See, it's natural for you people that you start praising those who fits in your school of thought. Anywaz, i dont influence people around here, every member has its own opinion and possesses the right to voice the same.

I am also up for the cause and hence criticize always stance of GoI and GoP.. No body wants army or terrorist on their ground.. Let them live.. Self determination or Independance is a political matter which can be handled lately but "ATLEAST" let them live...

i do agree to an extent, but then these two things are quite interlinked. Life and military dont exactly go together.
 
:coffee:




Oooooooo...!!! (like the one in that intel i3/5/7 ad), i am flattered..!!
:tup::tup::tup:

That's commendable, but then i dont see your fellow countrymen doing the same.
Same can be said to your fellow countrymen as I never heard coherent voice over this matter. Few say that Kashmir should be part of Pakistan and Few advocates a separate country but all of them supports "Morally" to "Freedom fighters" which in turns are violent to Kashmiris only (Recently one mother and daughter are killed).

Well that's natural. If only Muslims are being killed presently, the color and flavor would automatically set in.

Ever wonder why only Muslims are throwing stones..?? Only if you people had 'wondered', things would have been much better.
Here you are wrong with your logic. When you (Loosely for moral supporters of freedom fighters) will threw all minorities from the state and then say only Muslims are dying then both cant go along together.

We already 'wondered' and traced back the link for the same to camps on your side and captured conversations of so called "Azadi" leaders negotiating with some stakeolders of this uprising at your end.
Request you not to generalise every "Muslim" is part of such uprising only few who has suffered from atrocities of IA and unemployed/brainwashed youths are doing such protest. Rest are still struggling for their daily bread and butter.
Now what frustrates me is that fact that why would a need arise for these Kashmiris to protest or take stones in their hands? Have you people ever given a thought towards this? No! instead you are busy justifying killings of innocents stone pelters. You know, that's reactive, i wish you people could have been proactive - not giving any reason to the Kashmiris to take law into their hands.

The stone pelting is nothing but a new strategy to present it less violent and used to play as victim cards. Whole world was condemning you when young brainwashed youths were holding guns in 90s and were trained in your side of Kashmir. I dont see anything except a new strategy while these poor youths are getting killed again who dont see the bigger picture.

Arent we talking of 2010?
Does it matter which year we are talking to? Aren't we talking a 62 year old case? Even going by your logic Protests are there for only 20 years so if you pull out that movement then we can take our army back from the area.
Even then Sikhs and Pundits are 'happy' in the present status quo, Muslims are not, so there isnt much concern from that corner. This should give your policy makers some food for though, but then it has failed to do so repeatedly.

Are you kidding me? Thousands of Kashmiri pundits who are living in exile are 'happy' with "status quo".. Nopes.. Never.. :no:.. Sikhs are threatened by separatist/freedom fighters and they are happy..:no:

Regarding Muslims are not happy, It is their fault they could not involve Hindus/Sikhs/Buddhists in this protest. If they could involve all of them then this case may be seen as political movement otherwise it is nothing but choice of religious biased country, which can never be justified or fullfilled by GoI.

Again the fault lies with your policies. Banning SMS, FB etc etc would only yield bitterness and a ripened opportunity for your terrorists and our freedom fighters (i use 'ours' loosely) to make the most out of the situation.
Policies are Policymaker's choice and no one can certain that one Policy will succeed or fail but its intent is always to maintain nation's security and integrity. If few people dont like can't help. When I was in Jammu my Mobile was not working, I was frustated but respect their decision as per situation.
How guud it had been if the Kashmiri youth had rejected (the alleged) support from ISI and fighters and instead had listened to your batons. We call it winning hearts and minds, i dont know how it is used in your part of the world.
I can present you thousands of case where local Kashmiris either killed or informed such freedom fighters but leave it to you to google it. Even in 1965 war, Local Kashmiri informed IA regarding your movement. Your winning of their (only few) heart is because you are "Morally" (Arms and Finances too) supporting their illegitimate demand and we are not while others are happilly part of Indian stream line (This years civil services topper is Kashmiri ).
May be you want that i should start using 'rectal orifice', but then i dont come that low.



If you have been actually visiting PDF since the last 3-4 years and you still believe what you have told me, then i must say that you are either lieing or are gravely mistaken in your assessment!
No discussion is required on my existence on this Forum.. As I found you were measuring me with low post counts hence that has been brought up.. I drop it here as this is irrelevant to the topic..
Seriously, you dont want me turning this thread into one of those threads where we would post so many links (regarding atrocities against minorities) that some indian started to believe that they are no more one, but then you have been visiting this forum since the last 3-4 years, who could know this better than you ;)

You set the directions of discussion claiming India's minority oppression.. I didn't.. lets leave it for Kids to fight..

See, it's natural for you people that you start praising those who fits in your school of thought. Anywaz, i dont influence people around here, every member has its own opinion and possesses the right to voice the same.
Well, I am not the one who just discuss everything with blind patriotism when something is wrong it is wrong.. perspective matters and not flag of a nation. I dont want to impose my ideas/thoughts on anyone but what I want to know to see the things from multidimensional perspective.
i do agree to an extent, but then these two things are quite interlinked. Life and military dont exactly go together.
You know what, I have been to Jammu/Kashmir both area and the worst thing is when you walk among Armed personnels. I have seen aged people are working as carrier of our stuffs or asking for some money. This is the reason I hate stance of GoP and GoI both. Pakistan does not stop sending freedom fighters and India does not retreat their army the only sufferers are normal people. Politics is sad for normal people.
 
Same can be said to your fellow countrymen as I never heard coherent voice over this matter. Few say that Kashmir should be part of Pakistan and Few advocates a separate country but all of them supports "Morally" to "Freedom fighters" which in turns are violent to Kashmiris only (Recently one mother and daughter are killed).
There shouldnt be any doubt in your minds that our support would always be there for the Kashmiris. We support their stance and their freedom struggle. How we do it, is open to all. You yet have to catch a living idiot who would come up and say that he was sent in by us into Kashmir to fight the occupational forces.

Here you are wrong with your logic. When you (Loosely for moral supporters of freedom fighters) will threw all minorities from the state and then say only Muslims are dying then both cant go along together.
Who controls (IO) Kashmir? You or the freedom fighters? Let's be clear on this first. If it is the former than your forces must feel shame for not providing the Kashmiris (non-Muslims in this case) with protection and if Kashmir is under the control of freedom fighters, then WTF are you people doing in there since the last 6 decades..??!!

Moreover, when was the last time a minority was 'thrown out' of Kashmir by the freedom fighters? And if we go by your definition and understanding then by now J & K would have been a ONLY Muslim state..?
We already 'wondered' and traced back the link for the same to camps on your side and captured conversations of so called "Azadi" leaders negotiating with some stakeolders of this uprising at your end.
:rofl:
Yeah right!

Give me something better.

You would say and we would accept?

Come on man give us a break. Every second day we see a news piece 'educating' us that some 'terrorists' tried to cross and there was some firing and some went dead and the others vanished..i mean, it has become boring now! Use that ingenuity of yours.

Request you not to generalise every "Muslim" is part of such uprising only few who has suffered from atrocities of IA and unemployed/brainwashed youths are doing such protest. Rest are still struggling for their daily bread and butter.
Not exactly.

The case infact is the other way round, max youth (unemployed or brainwashed) is making use of those stones and only a few who have found 'peace' are resting at homes.

Had it been the way you have told, then this stone-throwing-business would have stopped by now after 64 people got killed!!

The issue is not programmed but an indigenous movement.


The stone pelting is nothing but a new strategy to present it less violent and used to play as victim cards.
See, like i said, that day you would stop think like this and strat thinking ABOUT the Kashmiris, things would get better, but with this dictatorial attitude, things can only get worse, as happening currently.

Whole world was condemning you when young brainwashed youths were holding guns in 90s and were trained in your side of Kashmir. I dont see anything except a new strategy while these poor youths are getting killed again who dont see the bigger picture.
Gone were the days.

You and the world need to prove that we are brainwashing them. Until then, you and your world can keep their beaks shut.

TOI and hindustan times are not exactly the credible sources that could force the world to act against us.

Are you kidding me? Thousands of Kashmiri pundits who are living in exile are 'happy' with "status quo".. Nopes.. Never.. :no:.. Sikhs are threatened by separatist/freedom fighters and they are happy..:no:
It seems like as if they are happy, or else they would have not stayed there, and most importantly, they wouldnt have even left their place at the first time if they had any love for the problems a general Kashmiri faces.

Regarding Muslims are not happy, It is their fault they could not involve Hindus/Sikhs/Buddhists in this protest. If they could involve all of them then this case may be seen as political movement otherwise it is nothing but choice of religious biased country, which can never be justified or fullfilled by GoI.
Ahan, see here we differ. Why dont you try to think why it is the Muslims who are not happy?

Arent you a secular country?

Policies are Policymaker's choice and no one can certain that one Policy will succeed or fail but its intent is always to maintain nation's security and integrity. If few people dont like can't help. When I was in Jammu my Mobile was not working, I was frustated but respect their decision as per situation.

i wish that could happen in Delhi, ill see then how many 'patriotic' hindus you people are then.

I can present you thousands of case where local Kashmiris either killed or informed such freedom fighters but leave it to you to google it. Even in 1965 war, Local Kashmiri informed IA regarding your movement. Your winning of their (only few) heart is because you are "Morally" (Arms and Finances too) supporting their illegitimate demand and we are not while others are happilly part of Indian stream line (This years civil services topper is Kashmiri ).

No discussion is required on my existence on this Forum.. As I found you were measuring me with low post counts hence that has been brought up.. I drop it here as this is irrelevant to the topic..


You set the directions of discussion claiming India's minority oppression.. I didn't.. lets leave it for Kids to fight..


Well, I am not the one who just discuss everything with blind patriotism when something is wrong it is wrong.. perspective matters and not flag of a nation. I dont want to impose my ideas/thoughts on anyone but what I want to know to see the things from multidimensional perspective.

You know what, I have been to Jammu/Kashmir both area and the worst thing is when you walk among Armed personnels. I have seen aged people are working as carrier of our stuffs or asking for some money. This is the reason I hate stance of GoP and GoI both. Pakistan does not stop sending freedom fighters and India does not retreat their army the only sufferers are normal people. Politics is sad for normal people.
LATER, dude.
 
Indian Police Thrash Scribe in Srinagar​
Srinagar, August 29 (KMS): In occupied Kashmir, despite assurances from the authorities that journalist will be free to perform their professional duties, Indian police beat up a media reporter in Srinagar without any reason.

Riyaz Malik, a correspondent of a local daily was beaten up while he was on way to office from Raj Bagh when a party from police station Kothi Bagh stopped him near Zero Bridge without any reason.

“I told the men in uniform that I am a journalist and have a curfew pass. They abused me and thrashed me,” said Malik, who received injuries on arms and other body parts.

Last month, personnel from the same police station had roughed up a mediaman, Showkat Hamid, near Regal Chowk.

Meanwhile, the police Saturday restricted movement of journalists around the TRC ground in Srinagar saying that they had instructions from the authorities not to allow the media-persons to move around the ground.

http://kmsnews.org/news/indian-polic...cribe-srinagar



largest democracy?? :lazy::coffee:
 
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India kabhi kashmir nahin chhodega.

Kyun?

1. Hamare north India kee kai lifeline rivers kasmir se nikalti hain. Jinnah said "Kashmir is Pakistan's jugular". Well, kashmir is our jugular too. Water alone is a reason strategic enough to make us kill or die for kashmir.

2. Hamne jis din kashmir chhoda, us din har tom, dick and harry will raise a shout for a seperate state. India was founded on the very principle of 'unity in diversity'. That principle will be negated and then it'll be impossible for GoI to suppress voices of silly dissent.

3. Kahmiris are themselves divided about what they want. Jammu and Ladakh have no grudges whatsoever. It's only a few people in the valley who have a problem.

4. In modern world big and powerful nations do not permit redrawing of boundaries so easily. USSR case was different. They broke up from inside. Not as a result of any foreign aggression.

SO WHAT's THE SOLUTION?

mujhe sirf ek hee realistic solution dikhta hai,

India apna kashmir rakhega (militarily). Pakistan apna kashmir rakhega (militarily). LoC will be made irrelevant permitting people to people contact just like in a single state. In short, kashmir will be united but under firm control of India and Pakistan.

A few modalities of the arrangement (such as seperate flag, constitution, currency etc.) can be worekd out. The three subjects Defence, Foreign Policy and communication will be controlled by India and Pakistan in their respective parts of the state.

It will be a very complex and detailed solution which will require huge concessions from both India and Pakistan.

And trust me guys India and Pakistan were willing to accept this very solution during talks between Mushy and MMS.

In the end,

India: happy because it controls the water, the land validating the 'unity in diversity' principle

Pakistan: happy because it gives them legitimate control of their part of kashmir in an internationally recognised way. Promised better relations with India, access to Indian market and what not. Just think about the economic opportunity it will bring for Pakistan.

Kashmiris: happy because it will give them the seperate identity they are seeking while getting economic benefits from both India and Pakistan.

Trust me friends, isse zyada kisi bhi party (India, Pakistan or Kashmiris) ko kuch nahin mil sakta.

Yahi ek solution bacha hai. Pasand hai toh accept karo. Nahin pasand.....well.....toh 63 saal se toh hum dekh hee rahe hain...........:angel:
 
if you think that is a viable or fair solution, then you must be smoking on some really strong shyt.


we aren't a stakeholder in Kashmir b/c we want (or care about) ''access to Indian market'' ''opportunities'' and ''what not.''

i can assure you that......as for ''unity in diversity'' i see that as not really being implemented too well. What ''unity'' are you talking about ---we can see in the news how much unity there is.


there's only one unity i'm hearing about --that is unity against indian oppression
 
if you think that is a viable or fair solution, then you must be smoking on some really strong shyt.


we aren't a stakeholder in Kashmir b/c we want (or care about) ''access to Indian market'' ''opportunities'' and ''what not.''

i can assure you that......as for ''unity in diversity'' i see that as not really being implemented too well. What ''unity'' are you talking about ---we can see in the news how much unity there is.


there's only one unity i'm hearing about --that is unity against indian oppression

Ok tell me my dear friend,

Do you or your govt. or your army or whatever, have a plan of action as to how to 'free' Kashmir from 'Indian Oppression'? :undecided:
 
Note:
1.kashmir is not for sale or donation...
2.we are not going to give pakistan an inch of Kashmir..so forget about your pathetic scenarioos.
3.Kashmir got nothing to do with hindu or muslim...its just a regional dissatisfaction which is due to some idiot leaders on both sides as well as kashmir...like gilani
 
no plan is required, Kashmiris can do it on their own; though we (civilians and those aforementioned) will continue to offer our moral support to all Kashmiris as we always have done and always will do. It is an issue that is ingrained in us, we wont just let it go.
 
no plan is required, Kashmiris can do it on their own; though we (civilians and those aforementioned) will continue to offer our moral support to all Kashmiris as we always have done and always will do. It is an issue that is ingrained in us, we wont just let it go.

Moral???
i think all the money,weapons,man force come from Pakistan for this terrorism renamed as Freedom struggle...
You just don't got the guts to accept that Kashmir cant be Yours ever and you don't realize that the money you are pushing in kashmir for terrorism is just getting in sever as India wont be affected by this idiotic try.
 
maybe you should yap less, and watch the video i posted. A journalist and resident of Sri Nagar (hindustany occupied Kashmir) himself is saying that Pakistan is not providing any support or money to the existentialist freedom fighters. It is a purely Kashmiri phenonmenon.
 
if you think that is a viable or fair solution, then you must be smoking on some really strong shyt.


we aren't a stakeholder in Kashmir b/c we want (or care about) ''access to Indian market'' ''opportunities'' and ''what not.''
So the stuff mentioned is not the reason for Pakistan's involvement but the result of an amicable settlement.


i can assure you that......as for ''unity in diversity'' i see that as not really being implemented too well. What ''unity'' are you talking about ---we can see in the news how much unity there is.


there's only one unity i'm hearing about --that is unity against indian oppression

New gets reported in both our countries and while there are issues in India in terms of regional and even religious discord can you even compare them with your own country. Considering we were diverse to begin with and you were united by religion, comparing the state of affairs, I think we have done a pretty good job of preserving that unity. After all, we are what we were at the time of independence. Bickering internally, but still one country externally..:tup:
 
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