The fiction of the Ideology of Pakistan: YLH

[saiyan0321]

You sure about that? I can open a current account and avoid state's deduction of Zakat. Plus what does it do with Zakat it has deducted from interest based accounts?

How do Pakistanis look at Zakat? A tax (which it is) or a ticket to heaven? Zakat in Pakistan doesn't have its real meaning. It was always a state levied tax, in Pakistan it is an individual's personal matter, at a ridiculous rate of 2.5%. Clergy defines Zakat in Pakistan ........ not the legislators of Pakistan.

I am not going to deny its imperfections which are more than a few and the matter is correct. If the state has taken the responsibility to implement and form itself as the custodian of Islam in the country then it must also define it and evolve in accordance with modern requirements. Islam should solely be in the hands of the state if it so chooses to implement it.


As for accounts. The idea most likely is the nature of zakat. Zakat is implemented on valuables you have possessed as savings for a period of time. Savings accounts are a sure thing however current accounts are an issue since the monetary value is in a constant flow. The monetary valuable I earned with the pay cheque may or may not be saved in that account. Its not perfect but give it time. Nations evolve and with it their system.

How do Pakistanis see it? I have done no survey but in my circle it is seen as an obligation like all the five pillars that must be fulfilled. You sit down and calculate zakat from all the valuables in the house and give it to the poor.

Well look on the bright side. We got the state levied part down. I think there are like 6 Muslim countries that have state mandated zakat.

Give it time. It will get better.. Slowly it will.

 

[El Sidd]

Bipin should have gone for smarter foot soldiers. These modern day shamans and voodoo Scientologists are not gonna help Bipin in his imposed war on Pakistan ideology.

You sure about that? I can open a current account and avoid state's deduction of Zakat. Plus what does it do with Zakat it has deducted from interest based accounts?

How do Pakistanis look at Zakat? A tax (which it is) or a ticket to heaven? Zakat in Pakistan doesn't have its real meaning. It was always a state levied tax, in Pakistan it is an individual's personal matter, at a ridiculous rate of 2.5%. Clergy defines Zakat in Pakistan ........ not the legislators of Pakistan.

Without going into the details of the concept of Taxation(Zakaat) or its religio-socio importance, the Pakistani state has a very rudimentary and a crude method of collecting zakaat and you can be exempt from it since Zakaat is interpreted as a ''personal'' duty to cleanse your wealth and not the states responsibility.

 

[I.R.A]

If the state has taken the responsibility to implement and form itself as the custodian of Islam

State being custodian of Islam is a misconception and already confused people get more confused when they read or hear views of confused Pakistanis / Muslims.

The only thing Pakistani state did is clearly accept in writing the Quranic verdict of "Sovereignty belongs to ALLAH and humans are mere tools of implementation".

The idea most likely is the nature of zakat. Zakat is implemented on valuables you have possessed as savings for a period of time.

Zakat is / was a tax. We wouldn't need consulting Australian tax laws or Martian tax laws and come up with the most pathetic and complex taxation system if we had accepted Zakat in its pure form.

Zakat like us we made it stagnant ......... it could have been the most perfect just taxation system in accordance with current times, if we were willing to accept that centuries old interpretations of mortal humans don't hold valid today.

Establish the state / system and pay Zakat are mentioned multiple times together in Quran.

Without going into the details of the concept of Taxation(Zakaat) or its religio-socio importance, the Pakistani state has a very rudimentary and a crude method of collecting zakaat and you can be exempt from it since Zakaat is interpreted as a ''personal'' duty to cleanse your wealth and not the states responsibility.

State would be answerable for that. The advocates of Raisat e Madina should think about it.

 

[El Sidd]

State would be answerable for that. The advocates of Raisat e Madina should think about it.

Answerable to whom?
Judiciary? or Parliamentary overseers? God?

Riyasat e Madina had an independent foreign policy and not an imposed one.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Its rich coming from a Qadiyani

. Even if he is Qadiyani (which i doubt) how does it make any of the points raised by him invalid ?

. He says that there are only 2 PhD theses on Jinnah on HEC's database, if that's not true, then bring forward counter-facts...... And if that is true, then why a PhD on Jinnah is actively discouraged in Pakistan ? Think over it

. He calls Pakistan Ideology a "legal fiction" (A concocted fiction that is now a part of our Constitution ) ... Again, not far off the mark ... The term ‘Pakistan Ideology’ (Nazriah-e-Pakistan’) was nowhere in Jinnah's speeches before or after the creation of Pakistan in 1947. Prof. Khurshid Ahmed, one of the leading members of Jamat e Islami (JI), is said to have first coined the term ‘Nazriah-e-Pakistan’ in 1962 in "response" to Ayub Khan's (a Dictator) policy of evolving Pakistan's nationhood in accordance with progressive dictates of Jinnah.

. He says that we should focus on making Pakistan a progressive and liberal state as envisioned by Jinnah. Do you deny that Jinnah wanted a progressive and liberal Pakistan ?

. He says Misquotes, fabricated quotes and quotes out of context are taken to prove that Pakistan was created as an ideological Islamic state. He is absolutely right ... You want examples ?

 

[lastofthepatriots]

. Even if he is Qadiyani (which i doubt) how does it make any of the points raised by him invalid ?

. He says that there are only 2 PhD theses on Jinnah on HEC's database, if that's not true, then bring forward counter-facts...... And if that is true, then ponder over it that why a PhD on Jinnah is actively discouraged in Pakistan

. He calls Pakistan Ideology a "legal fiction" (A concocted fiction that is now a part of our Constitution ) ... Again, not far off the mark ... The term ‘Pakistan Ideology’ (Nazriah-e-Pakistan’) was nowhere in Jinnah's speeches before or after the creation of Pakistan in 1947. Prof. Khurshid Ahmed, one of the leading members of Jamat e Islami (JI), is said to have first coined the term ‘Nazriah-e-Pakistan’ in 1962 in "response" to Ayub Khan's (a Dictator) policy of evolving Pakistan's nationhood in accordance with progressive dictates of Jinnah.

. He says that we should focus on making Pakistan a progressive and liberal state as envisioned by Jinnah. Do you deny that Jinnah wanted a progressive and liberal Pakistan ?

. He says Misquotes, fabricated quotes and quotes out of context are taken to prove that Pakistan was created as an ideological Islamic state. He is absolutely right ... You want examples ?

We should just join India and start worshiping rocks.

 

[M. Sarmad]

We should just join India and start worshiping rocks.

Bhai bring forward counter-arguments and counter-facts
No one is asking to join India or start worshiping rocks

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Bhai bring forward counter-arguments and counter-facts
No one is asking to join India or start worshiping rocks

I am not too familiar with these ideological politics from the past, but from what I understand via my ancestors from Punjab, was that we could not live with these people. They are different from us not only in religion, but culture and race as well. We have our land in which to prosper and they have their own. Allah Allah khair sallah.

I don't understand people that discuss this kind of crap. What difference does it make, when you cannot secure your own future? Allama Iqbal had a vision and Quaid-e-Azam achieved that vision in whatever capacity that he could. It's time to move on.

 

[M. Sarmad]

I am not too familiar with these ideological politics from the past, but from what I understand via my ancestors from Punjab, was that we could not live with these people. They are different from us not only in religion, but culture and race as well. We have our land in which to prosper and they have their own. Allah Allah khair sallah.

Yes, we have our land in which to prosper ... We have nothing to do with India (which isn't secular anyway)
But we believe that in order to achieve prosperity, we will have to bring back Jinnah's Pakistan that has been hijacked by political Mullahs and opportunist politicians

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Yes, we have our land in which to prosper ... We have nothing to do with India (which isn't secular anyway)
But we believe that in order to achieve prosperity, we will have to bring back Jinnah's Pakistan that has been hijacked by political Mullahs and opportunist politicians

Even Jinnah's Pakistan is now an outdated concept that spawned from the British Raj. I think it's time for us as Pakistanis to take his founding principles and mold our nation in to what we want it to be. Jinnah is long gone and he doesn't have to live in Pakistan anymore. But we do. We should direct our energies into what we want.

 

[Kompromat]

Yasir has to fulfill his quota and update his buddies from USSD who so graciously have been bankrolling his ivy league education

If you go through it, turns outs it’s essentially a rehash of his 90 previous articles that also said nothing except obvious requirements(only people can change things.. duhh).. and then his need to diss Mullah and military.

Because it is akin to a Zionist trying to determine the make up of a Palestinian state. A total oxymoron.

. Even if he is Qadiyani (which i doubt) how does it make any of the points raised by him invalid ?

. He says that there are only 2 PhD theses on Jinnah on HEC's database, if that's not true, then bring forward counter-facts...... And if that is true, then why a PhD on Jinnah is actively discouraged in Pakistan ? Think over it

. He calls Pakistan Ideology a "legal fiction" (A concocted fiction that is now a part of our Constitution ) ... Again, not far off the mark ... The term ‘Pakistan Ideology’ (Nazriah-e-Pakistan’) was nowhere in Jinnah's speeches before or after the creation of Pakistan in 1947. Prof. Khurshid Ahmed, one of the leading members of Jamat e Islami (JI), is said to have first coined the term ‘Nazriah-e-Pakistan’ in 1962 in "response" to Ayub Khan's (a Dictator) policy of evolving Pakistan's nationhood in accordance with progressive dictates of Jinnah.

. He says that we should focus on making Pakistan a progressive and liberal state as envisioned by Jinnah. Do you deny that Jinnah wanted a progressive and liberal Pakistan ?

. He says Misquotes, fabricated quotes and quotes out of context are taken to prove that Pakistan was created as an ideological Islamic state. He is absolutely right ... You want examples ?

 

[M. Sarmad]

Because it is akin to a Zionist trying to determine the make up of a Palestinian state. A total oxymoron.

Ahmedis, just like Palestinians, are the victims of persecution.. Both are being persecuted because of their religion.

Zionists are the sarkari oppressors ....
You are no better than those Zionists and their supporters whom you abhor

 

[Kompromat]

There's no persecution.

The conflict was started by Mirza Qadiyani when he established Takfeer against everyone who didn't believe in his bullshit lies and delusions of grandeur.

According to Ahmadis, i am Kafir.

The Constitutional article is just a reciprocal measure. An act of justice, not of persecution. Their citizenship rights are intact. They can seek employment, jobs, vote etc.

Ask Ahmadis to have their British Emir to scrap the fatwa of Takfeer by Mirza Ghulam and we can talk about talking.

But that'll be the straw that broke the camels back. The myth and the lies of Qadiyaniat will come crumbling down.

Ahmedis, just like Palestinians, are the victims of persecution.. Both are being persecuted because of their religion.

Zionists are the sarkari oppressors ....
You are no better than those Zionists and their supporters whom you abhor

 

[M. Sarmad]

There's no persecution.

Zionists say the same about Palestine
India says the same about Kashmir

The conflict was started by Mirza Qadiyani when he established Takfeer against everyone who didn't believe in his bullshit lies and delusions of grandeur.

According to Ahmadis, i am Kafir.

The Constitutional article is just a reciprocal measure. An act of justice, not of persecution. Their citizenship rights are intact. They can seek employment, jobs, vote etc.

Ask Ahmadis to have their British Emir to scrap the fatwa of Takfeer by Mirza Ghulam and we can talk about talking.

But that'll be the straw that broke the camels back. The myth and the lies of Qadiyaniat will come crumbling down.

Almost every sect of Muslims considers other sects as misguided
You want me to post Fatwas by the founders of Barelvi, Deobandi and Wahhabi sects declaring each other kafir ? Or Fatwas by Shia leaders ?
Why single out Mirza Ghulam Ahmed then ?

Ahmedis were declared Non Muslim by Bhutto to appease Mullahs .. That decision was politically motivated

 

[M. Sarmad]

If you go through it, turns outs it’s essentially a rehash of his 90 previous articles that also said nothing except obvious requirements(only people can change things.. duhh).. and then his need to diss Mullah and military.

We had a discussion about research work done on Jinnah exactly 2 years ago (on Dec 3 2016) and you said that:

"clearly you have never had the rounds of places(or have a personal relationship or convergence of views with the author) like QaU, NDU and KU where both young men and women have and still do research on the subject"


I asked you to post the research work done on Jinnah by those young men and women from QaU, NDU and KU etc. but you didn't ...

Now YLH is claiming that:

On the Higher Education Commission’s data base, one finds two PhD theses on Jinnah, one discussing his leadership skills and the other his brief time as the Governor General of Pakistan. Both are quite mediocre, badly researched and based on literature review of only a piddling subsection of the biographies on Mr Jinnah. It would seem that PhD on Jinnah is unofficially banned in Pakistan.

Please post the research work of those young men and women and prove YLH wrong.
Waiting .....