The end of the deal, hopes, delusions and treasons

[TheImmortal]

 

[Stryker1982]

So instead of selling sovereignty to the West your plan is to sell sovereignty to the East? A 25 year deal that is merely a MOU.

China is only one country without its own alternative financial system clearing alternative (SWIFT). It cannot be Iran’s only trade partner of Iran’s economy is expected to to be a 2 Trillion GDP economy in the future. (No reason it shouldn’t)

But of course I wouldn’t expect someone to understand basic economics who thinks Rouhani and Zarif are selling the entire country by themselves to the West.

People think that deal is done, it's the power of fake news. For some reason the words MOU doesn't enter their heads. It doesn't mean it will happen.

 

[TheImmortal]

People think that deal is done, it's the power of fake news. For some reason the words MOU doesn't enter their heads. It doesn't mean it will happen.

I just look at past Chinese history...led to shutdown and bankruptcy of Iran’s domestic industries, poor quality contaminated Chinese goods hurt ordinary, breached energy deals where they were supposed to develop fields form Iran.

“This times different bro...trust me”

Yeah same fools who said trust Russia.

25 year deal is a joke. The officials of the republic forgot the golden rule “it’s not personal it’s just business”. You can hate the west all you want, but accept business. Money is money.

Instead since the Islamic Republic they relied on oil income from their old field and shunned investment from the West till now they don’t have any partners anywhere.

 

[TheImmortal]

Iran calls Natanz atomic site blackout 'nuclear terrorism'

Iran on Sunday described a blackout at its underground Natanz atomic facility an act of “nuclear terrorism,” raising regional tensions as world powers and Tehran continue to negotiate over its tattered nuclear deal. While there was no immediate claim of responsibility, suspicion fell...

www.google.com

Seems Israel is continuing its attacks on Iran

 

[Iskander]

Iran calls Natanz atomic site blackout 'nuclear terrorism'

Iran on Sunday described a blackout at its underground Natanz atomic facility an act of “nuclear terrorism,” raising regional tensions as world powers and Tehran continue to negotiate over its tattered nuclear deal. While there was no immediate claim of responsibility, suspicion fell...

www.google.com

Seems Israel is continuing its attacks on Iran

Another intelligence fiasco

 

[TheImmortal]

Another intelligence fiasco

Cant blame this on intelligence arm when it likely has to do with Iran’s reliance on imported electrical systems and subsystems.

Maybe an electrical engineer on this board can elaborate from what countries Iran receives its electrical grid system and subsystems or if it’s domestically produced.

Russia’s solar winds cyber attacks exposed how vulnerable US electrical grid and other infrastructure is. So I can only imagine that Iran is worse off than the US in this field especially if it uses Western systems.

I believe it wasn’t long ago that US/Israel tried to convince an engineer to hack into Iran’s electrical grid and provided “codes” for him to do so. I don’t know if this was debunked or not, but it shows that the interest is likely

 

[aryobarzan]

Any industrial site using grid electricity will be designed to be balck out tolerant especially when it is nuclear. Critical elements will be backed up by UPS or local generators. This is a minor incident amplified by both sides for publicity...iran did not even have to confirm it but instead they are using it as "nuclear terrorisem" to get a point across.

Cyber attack on iran grid should wake them up...counter intelligence of iran should hire some scientists to tell them the new ways you can sabotage a country ...satellite assassination with machine gun did not wake them up...may be this will...

 

[TheImmortal]

Any industrial site using grid electricity will be designed to be balck out tolerant especially when it is nuclear. Critical elements will be backed up by UPS or local generators. This is a minor incident amplified by both sides for publicity...iran did not even have to confirm it but instead they are using it as "nuclear terrorisem" to get a point across.

This is not correct. If you have back door access into a electrical grid, you can send thru a cyberattack that disables or overheats certain critical parts. Some key parts of electrical grid take 6-24 months to replace due to backlog in manufacturing and delivery.

Iran’s electrical grid is not poised to handle cyberattacks.

And centrifuges are very delicate machines a brief halt can cause a significant issue especially if the back up generators aren’t powerful enough to power the entire plant or the lag between them turning on causes issues.

The aim of this blackout was likely to destroy or impair Iran’s centrifuges in some fashion to the Stuxnet attack except opposite direction (instead of speeding up, sudden shut down) the timing of this was with mechanical tests on IR-9, gas injected into IR-6, and preparation for IR-8 to be injected on top of the IR-2M and IR-4 working and enriching to 20 percent.

A small chance this is retribution for an Israeli blackout I read months ago, but not sure if that was cyber related. Never followed up on it.

It is clear Natanz security is compromised and all sensitive work should move to Fordow.

 

[Sineva]

I just look at past Chinese history...led to shutdown and bankruptcy of Iran’s domestic industries, poor quality contaminated Chinese goods hurt ordinary, breached energy deals where they were supposed to develop fields form Iran.

“This times different bro...trust me”

Yeah same fools who said trust Russia.

25 year deal is a joke. The officials of the republic forgot the golden rule “it’s not personal it’s just business”. You can hate the west all you want, but accept business. Money is money.

Instead since the Islamic Republic they relied on oil income from their old field and shunned investment from the West till now they don’t have any partners anywhere.

You seem to be forgetting that it was not iran that "shunned" western investment,far from it in fact as europe was iran largest trading partner up until the beginning of the 2010s.It was in fact the west who chose to turn their backs on iran,at considerable costs to themselves as well,so evidently they dont seem to share your "money is money" mantra,indeed its pretty obvious that for the west this IS personal,and if you have any doubts about that you need only look as far as libya to see the reality of it.
China is FAR from perfect,but at this point for iran at least,there seem to be far less costs and risks doing business with china than continuing to try and do business with the west,because at this point it seems completely impossible for things to return to where they were during the high point of western-iran trade at the beginning of the 2000s,indeed I think that even if the west wanted to,and frankly I see no sign of this,that the west has tied itself up in some many knots of sanctions that I dont think that it even knows how to begin to go about cutting this economic gordian knot that it has created for itself.
So,ultimately if NOT china then who....?

 

[TheImmortal]

You seem to be forgetting that it was not iran that "shunned" western investment,far from it in fact as europe was iran largest trading partner up until the beginning of the 2010s.It was in fact the west who chose to turn their backs on iran,at considerable costs to themselves as well,so evidently they dont seem to share your "money is money" mantra,indeed its pretty obvious that for the west this IS personal,and if you have any doubts about that you need only look as far as libya to see the reality of it.
China is FAR from perfect,but at this point for iran at least,there seem to be far less costs and risks doing business with china than continuing to try and do business with the west,because at this point it seems completely impossible for things to return to where they were during the high point of western-iran trade at the beginning of the 2000s,indeed I think that even if the west wanted to,and frankly I see no sign of this,that the west has tied itself up in some many knots of sanctions that I dont think that it even knows how to begin to go about cutting this economic gordian knot that it has created for itself.
So,ultimately if NOT china then who....?

Again simply incorrect.

After Reagan came into power he wanted to bring Iran back into Western circle and negotiations with Iranian officials were even held with Rouhani (yes rouhani) leading them. But Iranian ultimately rejected such a return.

You forget US was still in Soviet Cold War mode and wanted Iran as a bulwark. Reagan hoped to use Iran-Contra as a building block. It ended up never coming true.

Then in 1990’s Soviet Union fell and the need for Iran dropped even further. Rafsanjani decided to turn to Europe and Russia.

During Khatami era rapprochement with US was forbidden and Khamenai philosophy was anti-US from the onset of his tenure. This thinking that anti-West investment would keep Iran safe clearly did not turn out correct. Today Iran has no shortage of western or Zionist spies.

Afterall one needs to look at rapprochement between China and US. They actually were killing each other in Korean War. No love lost between these two countries. If that were Iran, for the next 100 years they would complain about it. But China played 4D chess and went with “keep your friends close and enemies closer” and sucked in the West from an economic standpoint. A bit of oversimplification on my part, but we don’t have time to revisit US-China relations.

Now don’t get me wrong Iran has valid greivances against the US for past actions that have hurt Iran, no question about it, but the approach Iran took since the Revolution only played into the hands of the Zionists and allowed them to tighten their grip on Congress to make it as anti-Iran as it is today.

In 1985, 1990, 1995 US Congress was hardly this anti-Iran. Dick Cheney’s (a future neocon) Halliburton had an office in Tehran in early 1990’s. That should tell you the state of affairs at the time. There was potential for a breakthrough especially with Saddam being public enemy #1 since Gulf War I in US society and Congress.

As for your comment regarding Iran-Europe trade it was a one sided affair with Iran supplying oil and then importing European goods and cars to sastify its domestic population. Hardly a trade among equals and even less IP transfer and technology transfer or investment in Iranian economy. (Minus Peugeot sending Iran kits to make decades old models of its cars under license)

As for Europe shunning Iran for US markets (sanctions threat) that is a no brainer. If US asked Iran you can either do business with me (US) or Turkey....who would you pick? Of course Iran would pick US, what economic relevance is Turkey on the world stage? Basically nothing. So can’t blame Europe that they couldn’t stand up to US.

As for your comment “if not China...then who” again that is a wrong way to think about things.
This Iran-China deal is not a deal among equals. It’s somewhat like Iran-Syria deals except in this case Iran is Syria and China is Iran. Iran has Little leverage, it is offering oil/gas and first dibs on major projects nothing groundbreaking or strategic or more importantly nothing that China can’t get elsewhere. If you listened to an interview with a former Iranian diplomat (ambassador?) he lamented that this deal is too little too late. He said that China during his time (10+ years ago) approached Iran many times regarding such a relationship, but Iran rebuffed such a request likely due to hope for realignment with West. After a while China got tired and started investing with other countries (Pakistan and others in the region) and thus reduced its need for Iran in the central theme of the plan. By the time that Iran came around to the idea, China didn’t really need Iran anymore as it had continued its investments in the Middle East without Iran. Thus the deal on the table today was less favorable.

Time will tell how this deal turns out, I’m skeptical. I think it’s a glorified MOU similar to other long term deals Iran has signed in the past for example with Russia.

 

[Surenas]

This is not correct. If you have back door access into a electrical grid, you can send thru a cyberattack that disables or overheats certain critical parts. Some key parts of electrical grid take 6-24 months to replace due to backlog in manufacturing and delivery.

Iran’s electrical grid is not poised to handle cyberattacks.

And centrifuges are very delicate machines a brief halt can cause a significant issue especially if the back up generators aren’t powerful enough to power the entire plant or the lag between them turning on causes issues.

The aim of this blackout was likely to destroy or impair Iran’s centrifuges in some fashion to the Stuxnet attack except opposite direction (instead of speeding up, sudden shut down) the timing of this was with mechanical tests on IR-9, gas injected into IR-6, and preparation for IR-8 to be injected on top of the IR-2M and IR-4 working and enriching to 20 percent.

A small chance this is retribution for an Israeli blackout I read months ago, but not sure if that was cyber related. Never followed up on it.

It is clear Natanz security is compromised and all sensitive work should move to Fordow.

It wasn't a cyber attack.

Blackout Hits Iran Nuclear Site in What Appears to Be Israeli Sabotage (Published 2021)

The power failure was described by Iran as “nuclear terrorism” as talks were underway in Vienna to restore the 2015 nuclear deal.

www.nytimes.com

 

[TheImmortal]

It wasn't a cyber attack.

Blackout Hits Iran Nuclear Site in What Appears to Be Israeli Sabotage (Published 2021)

The power failure was described by Iran as “nuclear terrorism” as talks were underway in Vienna to restore the 2015 nuclear deal.

www.nytimes.com

Dear god. Somehow Natanz has worse security than Iran’s airports. Simply amazing.

 

[WudangMaster]

Baba just give it up already! There are so many traitorous roaches inside the country that this resistance and independence and strength is looking silly. Until there is a very deep and violent purge within and a brutal repression of the evil pan movements and a total annihilation of mko maggots, these things will simply get worse and worse!
Does not matter if you are heavyweight champion who can rip apart your opponents in the ring when a cancer is devouring you alive from within! Get these tumors out before the whole body that is Iran falls to the monsters biding their time outside!
Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to start rounding up entire families of these treasonous roaches and making life very uncomfortable for their loved ones, at least with people causing harm like this.

 

[TheImmortal]

Baba just give it up already! There are so many traitorous roaches inside the country that this resistance and independence and strength is looking silly. Until there is a very deep and violent purge within and a brutal repression of the evil pan movements and a total annihilation of mko maggots, these things will simply get worse and worse!
Does not matter if you are heavyweight champion who can rip apart your opponents in the ring when a cancer is devouring you alive from within! Get these tumors out before the whole body that is Iran falls to the monsters biding their time outside!
Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to start rounding up entire families of these treasonous roaches and making life very uncomfortable for their loved ones, at least with people causing harm like this.

Lol MKO wishes it has such capabilities.

Do we really think these guys:

could stage such an operation?


During WW2, a high ranking Nazi official was able to place a briefcase bomb in a meeting room with adolf Hitler in attendance except he put the briefcase against the wrong side of leg of the table Hitler was at and it deflected the blast away from him.

So if Western allies could reach Hitler who was a Demi God in Nazi Germany back then, then Iran isn’t that hard. Especially with the technology available today versus 1940’s.

 

[Surenas]

This is looking bad.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1381402776824086530

NYT simarily reports that it could at least take 9 months for Iran to restart production at Natanz.