The Decline of the AMERICAN EMPIRE

[SQ8]

Enjoy Vegas!

(I think there should be a sticky on PDF for the Daily USA "Doom&Gloom" thread, so that this type of crap stays in one place till it is flushed after debunking. )

Time, Newsweek, The economist.. etc
don't help the cause either..
Things are bad.. I cant give a first hand account of my own.. but those of close friends and acquaintances.
But nobody is ******* in the streets..
hey they had to sell their sub-urban paradise near san antonio because daddy lost his 15 year old job..well...daddy should have been smart enough to save instead of buying 3d LED's on maxed out credit cards when he knew that he cant really afford em.
Everybody is in debt.. well.. I gotta ask em.. you are the one who TOOK the loan(credit..etc)..why complain now?

Even with his scary eagle should be able to give testament to the spending issues when it comes to Americans.. and especially immigrants from a certain Non-Nato ally..
Got cash.. SPend! spend!.. till you can spend no more.

 

[VCheng]

Time, Newsweek, The economist.. etc
don't help the cause either..
Things are bad.. I cant give a first hand account of my own.. but those of close friends and acquaintances.
But nobody is ******* in the streets..
hey they had to sell their sub-urban paradise near san antonio because daddy lost his 15 year old job..well...daddy should have been smart enough to save instead of buying 3d LED's on maxed out credit cards when he knew that he cant really afford em.
Everybody is in debt.. well.. I gotta ask em.. you are the one who TOOK the loan(credit..etc)..why complain now?

Even with his scary eagle should be able to give testament to the spending issues when it comes to Americans.. and especially immigrants from a certain Non-Nato ally..
Got cash.. SPend! spend!.. till you can spend no more.

Things are bad is a relative term, please remember that.

Consumer debt is only one small aspect of the overall picture. The fundamentals are much more robust than what is portrayed in the media, even the ones you mention.

 

[pmukherjee]

It is the failure of runaway capitalism. Totally unregulated and unfettered capitalism. Profiteering. Near total abdication of the state in its role as a regulator. Laissez-faire is the name of the game. These are the very principles and concepts which Ayn Rand held so dear which are on the threshold of collapse. Economies based on consumption. The more conspicuous the consumption, the more boisterous the economy. America is just the tip, the cutting edge of the capitalist world. The author has simply stated what many knew all along, that totally unregulated capitalism is a failed way of life. Just as communism has failed.

For all those who are cheering at the prospective failure of America, a word of caution. It is not America 'The Great Satan' which is at the brink of failure but America, the great champion of the capitalistic world which has peaked and is now on the decline. Where does that land us? Don't we make the same mistakes in our lives every day? Don't we buy the 50" LCD when a 40" would suffice or even the old 29" CRT would do just fine? Go for the latest I Phone when a lesser model would meet our needs adequately. Don't we lust after the Toyota Innova when the I10 or a I20 would do just as well. Use the car when we could hop into the metro? Aren't we all capitalists in our own way?
How has China reached the current status of the second largest economy? Is it not by consuming phenomenal quantities of resources and mass producing stuff at very high rates? Flooding world markets with products so cheap that no domestic industry can compete? What is this but capitalism? Yes, China has taken a far more pragmatic course to development. There is nothing uncontrolled or unregulated about China's capitalism. Does that mean that the Chinese model will last longer than the American one? We certainly hope so.
All the socio-cultural failings of the American system are present in our system in varying degrees. The joint family system which for thousands of years ensured security and stability of the family has all but vanished. Cases of divorces and single parents bringing up families are on the rise. Apathy and social numbness in the face of focused personal advancement is the norm. Cases of acute depression are on the rise. Psychiatrists across India are doing roaring business. One can go on and on. The point is that America is way ahead of us on the very same path we are treading in the hope of catching up some day soon. We know what happened to America. Should that give us reason to pause and think, or do we bash on regardless?

Should this article give us reason to introspect? I attended a seminar many years ago in which the speaker asked a young college graduate to write down on a board what the next milestone in his life would be. The young man wrote - 'To be a millionaire be age 30'. To this the speaker added - essential hypertension by 35 - peptic ulcers by 40 - divorce by 45 - first cardiac arrest by 50 - RIP by 55.

Just my 2 paisas. Regards.

 

[jamal18]

Vcheng.

Dollar is not going down the pan? Yours is a minority view,

Debt just used to enhance liquidity? What is it, $14 trillion? Thats not liquidity, that's permanently spending more tha you earn.

Massive US defence budget? Yes, we know that. But its direction is one of decline.

With other expanding economies, the US is in permanent relative economic decline. There have just been $500billion (over a few years?) of military spending cuts; with a possibilty of more to come.

The Pentagon has just said that it can no longer fight two wars simultaneously, that's a decline in my books.

The ability of the US to strategically impact the rest of the world is in permanent decline. You seem to be insulted by this; it's not meant to be, just a statement of the obvious.

An enterprise like the invasion of Iraq will be a military and financial impossibilty in a few years; as much as an invasion of Egypt by Britain.

My 2 cents. (Yes its a phrase).

 

[VCheng]

Vcheng.

Yes?

Dollar is not going down the pan? Yours is a minority view,

The dollar will be the reserve currency for the foreseeable future. I do not care whether my view is in the minority or not; I believe it to be the correct view. Please feel free to continue to disagree.

Debt just used to enhance liquidity? What is it, $14 trillion? Thats not liquidity, that's permanently spending more tha you earn.

You can't mix up personal consumer debt, which was your previous example, with the US national debt. They are two very different things. My enhancing liquidity comment applies to the consumer debt. The national debt is in our currency, and most of the debt is owned by USA as well (not China, or others, please note specifically).

Massive US defence budget? Yes, we know that. But its direction is one of decline.

Decline? Or the USA is so far ahead already that such big amounts are not needed while still maintaining overwhelming superiority?

With other expanding economies, the US is in permanent relative economic decline. There have just been $500billion (over a few years?) of military spending cuts; with a possibilty of more to come.

Nothing is "permanent", not the US superpower status, and not your opinion of its decline either. I maintain, with good reasons, that USA will remain a superpower for the foreseeable future.

The Pentagon has just said that it can no longer fight two wars simultaneously, that's a decline in my books.

Yes, that is a shift in policy, to be more efficacious and not keep resources for two major ground wars simultaneously, just one. Please note that the capabilities are going to shift to remote warfare technologies. That is smart thinking, and cannot be taken as evidence of decline. USA is not into chest thumping declarations of power. We just do what needs to be done, and we will continue to do it the best way possible. That's all.

The ability of the US to strategically impact the rest of the world is in permanent decline. You seem to be insulted by this; it's not meant to be, just a statement of the obvious.

Look at the world around you, and tell me if USA's impact is declining. Here, the use of "permanent" is again not justified. And think of not just the military impact, but overall, including cultural and other innovative aspects. USA rules the roost, not just impacts the rest.

Oh, BTW, I am not affected by perceived or real insults. I am simply too cold.

An enterprise like the invasion of Iraq will be a military and financial impossibilty in a few years; as much as an invasion of Egypt by Britain.

Well, let's see in a few years. I am confident what USA needs to do then, it will still be able to do, militarily, as well as financially.

My 2 cents. (Yes its a phrase).

Yes. I know.

 

[below_freezing]

My point was that there are multiple energy alternatives that can be gradually pressed into service as needed.

Ever heard of pumps? I think your argument against getting Great Lakes water to the Great Plains also applies to the Chinese South-North water project, unless the Chinese have invented some secret anti-gravity device!

The North China Plain has a much lower elevation than the Tibetan Plateau and Sichuan Highlands that the rivers will be diverted at in the first canal.

Pumps require even more fossil fuels and it is uneconomical to haul that much water. Besides, US is #1 in talking, they talked about high speed rail in California for 30 years and its still on paper.

 

[VCheng]

The North China Plain has a much lower elevation than the Tibetan Plateau and Sichuan Highlands that the rivers will be diverted at in the first canal.

You mean China is using plain old gravity? USA has reversed rivers when deemed necessary.

Pumps require even more fossil fuels and it is uneconomical to haul that much water. Besides, US is #1 in talking, they talked about high speed rail in California for 30 years and its still on paper.

Uneconomical? Please read this:

Colorado River Aqueduct - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just like the CRA, USA can walk the walk too, if we really need to do it. The high speed rail argument is irrelevant, because it speaks more of an open democracy rather than an autocratic regime such as that in China.


=========================================


There is no doubt China is progressing rapidly, but it will be quite a while before it can achieve the many milestones that USA did in the last century. Good Luck to you guys; we will continue to try our best too.

 

[lemurian]

It is the failure of runaway capitalism. Totally unregulated and unfettered capitalism. Profiteering. Near total abdication of the state in its role as a regulator. Laissez-faire is the name of the game. These are the very principles and concepts which Ayn Rand held so dear which are on the threshold of collapse. Economies based on consumption. The more conspicuous the consumption, the more boisterous the economy. America is just the tip, the cutting edge of the capitalist world. The author has simply stated what many knew all along, that totally unregulated capitalism is a failed way of life. Just as communism has failed.

Reminded me of this little snippet---

"It may be hard for most people to imagine, but Spain was the first global Superpower. It gained this status as the defender of Europe against Muslim armies and by leading the West’s exploration of America. In 1492, the same year that Spanish-financed Christopher Columbus discovered the New World, the last Muslim stronghold of Granada was ceded to Ferdinand and Isabella to complete the Catholic Reconquest of the Iberian peninsula... It controlled rich parts of Italy through Naples and Milan, and Central Europe from the Netherlands through the Holy Roman Empire to Austria. In the 16th century it added the far distant Philippine islands to its empire. The Hapsburgs held off the Ottoman Turks, whose resurgent wave of Islamic conquest in the 16th century swept across the Balkans and nearly captured Vienna.

Yet, Spanish leaders were deluded by a sense of false prosperity. This is testified by the statement of a prominent official, Alfonso Nunez de Castro in 1675: “Let London manufacture those fine fabrics of hers to her heart's content; let Holland her chambrays; Florence her cloth; the Indies their beaver and vicuna; Milan her brocade, Italy and Flanders their linens...so long as our capital can enjoy them; the only thing it proves is that all nations train their journeymen for Madrid, and that Madrid is the queen of Parliaments, for all the world serves her and she serves nobody.” A few years later, the Madrid government was bankrupt. The Spanish nobleman had foolishly elevated consumption, a use for wealth, above production, the creation of wealth."

Spanish Lessons

 

[VCheng]

^^^ Great historical snippet, but not applicable the modern day USA just yet, if that was your intent: the most prolific creator and consumer of "wealth" in the world today is USA.

 

[below_freezing]

I enjoyed the spain article.

 

[gambit]

lmao when did i claim China has more arable land? There's some undisputed facts here. 1. you confused yield with production. 2. you thought that China imported staples. 3. you thought that mechanization increases unit yield. all have been shown false.

Eating Fossil Fuels

Agriculture accounts for 17% of total energy used in the US.

Agriculture in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

China uses mostly physical labor.

Son, I have no doubt that post 54 is when you learned how geographical China is truly inferior to geographical US. China produced more rice? So what? Anyone who ever lived in the US quickly learn that the US is not a rice consuming people. China produces more wheat? Big deal. Does that automatically mean there must be a corresponding decrease of wheat production in the US? Given 4x the arable land the US have over China, the US can outproduce China on both and just about anything else. Arable land does not mean all available acreage must be used for farming but for ranches as well. You are talking out of your @$$ here.

 

[below_freezing]

Son, I have no doubt that post 54 is when you learned how geographical China is truly inferior to geographical US. China produced more rice? So what? Anyone who ever lived in the US quickly learn that the US is not a rice consuming people. China produces more wheat? Big deal. Does that automatically mean there must be a corresponding decrease of wheat production in the US? Given 4x the arable land the US have over China, the US can outproduce China on both and just about anything else. Arable land does not mean all available acreage must be used for farming but for ranches as well. You are talking out of your @$$ here.

No it cannot. If it could, it would. There are varying qualities of arable land, and the US great plains will soon become desert. There is nothing anyone can do to reverse the inevitable decline. You're trying to save a guy on terminal cancer, soon the surgery will kill him before the cancer does.

 

[gambit]

No it cannot. If it could, it would. There are varying qualities of arable land, and the US great plains will soon become desert. There is nothing anyone can do to reverse the inevitable decline. You're trying to save a guy on terminal cancer, soon the surgery will kill him before the cancer does.

Want to know more...???

ERS/USDA Briefing Room - Agricultural Resource Management Survey (ARMS): Resource Regions

File:China agricultural 1986.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

At best, China's arable land indeed only 10% of total geography while the US enjoys nearly half. This is not counting offshore sea food sources. For energy, there are inland coal, natural gas, oil explorations, and finally -- nuclear. You think China's leaders do not know this gross disparity? You think China's leaders are ignorant of China's far greater vulnerabilities? Remember, the US and China have statistically insignificant land area differences and yet nearly 100% difference in liveable, agricultural, and ranchable land.

 

[VCheng]

Want to know more...???

ERS/USDA Briefing Room - Agricultural Resource Management Survey (ARMS): Resource Regions

File:China agricultural 1986.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

At best, China's arable land indeed only 10% of total geography while the US enjoys nearly half. This is not counting offshore sea food sources. For energy, there are inland coal, natural gas, oil explorations, and finally -- nuclear. You think China's leaders do not know this gross disparity? You think China's leaders are ignorant of China's far greater vulnerabilities? Remember, the US and China have statistically insignificant land area differences and yet nearly 100% difference in liveable, agricultural, and ranchable land.

...... as well as a HUGE difference in population, not to forget!

 

[SQ8]

...... as well as a HUGE difference in population, not to forget!

It was really interesting to see a headline on fox about some state police taking a federal security guy into custody as he had violated their laws. Such autonomy and yet cohesion.. A strong Union indeed.