The Debt we owe the Army & PAF

[PurpleButcher]

Hi,

The meeting should be in private with a 100 years top security no disclosure----.

Now---in you daily life----the things you are supposed to do daily----you want a pat on your back for doing something extraordinary. Everybody wants to be acknowledged for a job that they have done.

A child takes a step---and we encourage him / her----why----would it stop taking steps if we don't encourage----no---once the first step is taken---there is no stopping---but encouragement makes you do things better----.

Same thing holds true for the soldiers---even though they signed up----but still it is not an ordinary decision to lay down your life.

For that reason---we have medals for gallantry----we build monuments for those who laid down their lives---we bestow upon them the terms like 'martyr' 'shaheed' and the likes of it----but for what---to acknowledge the act of bravery and unselfish sacrifice of life----.

as far as meeting in private is concerned it ruins the very concept of justice. the purpose of justice is to make an example out of the guilty and the punishment should be so severe that no one should think about committing the same mistake again. That is why in saudi arabia, beheading requires a mass gathering, no mass gathering, beheading is delayed till next friday prayer (i have just heard about it never had the stamina to witness such a thing ). Furthermore a lot of fact finding committees have come and gone, have presented secret findings and submitted lengthy reports but what affect did they have on anyone. justice must be seen, not held in private .

Now second thing about patting on the back, yes pat them on their backs, respect them, give them awards, but being indebted to them is beyond comprehension,whatever they do, its not a favour, its their job. just like a janitor does his job so does a jawan, its their duty. they are given taxpayers' money for that.

 

[MastanKhan]

as far as meeting in private is concerned it ruins the very concept of justice. the purpose of justice is to make an example out of the guilty and the punishment should be so severe that no one should think about committing the same mistake again. That is why in saudi arabia, beheading requires a mass gathering, no mass gathering, beheading is delayed till next friday prayer (i have just heard about it never had the stamina to witness such a thing ). Furthermore a lot of fact finding committees have come and gone, have presented secret findings and submitted lengthy reports but what affect did they have on anyone. justice must be seen, not held in private .

Now second thing about patting on the back, yes pat them on their backs, respect them, give them awards, but being indebted to them is beyond comprehension,whatever they do, its not a favour, its their job. just like a janitor does his job so does a jawan, its their duty. they are given taxpayers' money for that.

Hi,

That punishment is for the civilians---and that should be the first step----but my man----you don't do it to the military---. Seems like you don't have race horses or hunting dogs----ask Mustafa Khar how he treats his grey hounds----or ask Pir Pagara how he treats his race horses.

Neithr did Zia and nor did Musharraf brought martial law on their own---the Pakistani public demanded it---Pakistani public asked for it---

 

[Irfan Baloch]

H
Neithr did Zia and nor did Musharraf brought martial law on their own---the Pakistani public demanded it---Pakistani public asked for it---

and distributed sweets and danced whenever these democratic governments were ousted by military

 

[Developereo]

It takes two to tango. Both countries will benefit hugely from peace.

As usual, you didn't answer my question except with a vague platitude.

Are you saying that the Indian side is genuinely asking for peace, and all the blame lies with the Pakistani side?

Why do you have trouble answering such a simple question?

 

[VCheng]

As usual, you didn't answer my question except with a vague platitude.

Are you saying that the Indian side is genuinely asking for peace, and all the blame lies with the Pakistani side?

Why do you have trouble answering such a simple question?

I was quite clear:

Both sides have contributed to the present impasse, and only both sides together can resolve it. Pakistan has more to lose if the status quo remains, and also more to gain if it is resolved.

Is that clear enough?

 

[Shot-Caller]

Like iraq's dictator fixed iraq... like libya's dictator fixed libya.... ??

Are they in a better condition today or when they were ruled by dictators?

 

[Developereo]

I was quite clear:

Both sides have contributed to the present impasse, and only both sides together can resolve it. Pakistan has more to lose if the status quo remains, and also more to gain if it is resolved.

Is that clear enough?

Yet your criticism is aimed solely at the PA, suggesting the situation would magically resolve if only the PA would be neutralized.

You have yet to prove that India is genuinely interested in peace. Indian actions are just as self-contradictory as anything from Pakistan.

 

[MastanKhan]

I was quite clear:

Both sides have contributed to the present impasse, and only both sides together can resolve it. Pakistan has more to lose if the status quo remains, and also more to gain if it is resolved.

Is that clear enough?

Hi,

Seems like you speak out of lack of experience or a lack of knowledge-----only and only india can make peace. Any time any day----india can resolve the issue---peace is at india's discretion.

Pakistan does not have more to lose if the status quo stays the same----india has more to lose if the status quo remains the same----every extra day is giving time to Pakistan to strengthen---and when Pakistan is strong----or feeling strong---it strikes----regardless of the results----Pakistan may some but india will lose more economically.

 

[PurpleButcher]

You forgot to add

>America nuking japan
>Chernobyl incident
>Israel/Arab war
>Arab spring
>Hitler's birth
>You being stupid

Are they in a better condition today or when they were ruled by dictators?

Brother your first post can be best defined by the last line of the same post. Brother if you do not agree with what i have said, kindly go through all the pages of discussion. Still if you feel my claims are baseless, kindly point them so that we may have a healthy discussion, my viewpoint can be wrong,similarly yours can be wrong, but with the style of your arguments, it is hard to convince me.

Your second post has already been discussed on page#2 and onward by several others including me. my last post on that topic was post # 53. Kindly first go through the discussion, then comment.

Hi,

That punishment is for the civilians---and that should be the first step----but my man----you don't do it to the military---. Seems like you don't have race horses or hunting dogs----ask Mustafa Khar how he treats his grey hounds----or ask Pir Pagara how he treats his race horses.

Neithr did Zia and nor did Musharraf brought martial law on their own---the Pakistani public demanded it---Pakistani public asked for it---

Sir,

what is your opinion on the turkish politics, how civilians dealt with generals who were opposing them? Would you say turkish military has been demoralized by the "open" actions of civilians against generals who were interested in overthrowing a democratically elected government?

Now the second point
"Neithr did Zia and nor did Musharraf brought martial law on their own---the Pakistani public demanded it---Pakistani public asked for it---"

Well what constitutes the Pakistani public? some people coming on the streets and asking for martial law? what is the minimum number of people needed to bring on streets and declare that the nation wants xyz! Sir, opposition never likes the sitting govt., they always oppose them, but our power thirsty generals are always looking for an opportunity to exploit it. (post mush army's attitude has been a welcome exception).

Sir,
Less than 30 days on this forum and addressing a 7 years member as stupid---. That is un-called for

Thankyou!

Open to a healthy discussion

 

[Shot-Caller]

Sir,

Less than 30 days on this forum and addressing a 7 years member as stupid---. That is un-called for.

I respect views not the number of days one has been here. If a seven year old member puts all the blame on the army, I have a problem with it. But still i think I did go a bit too for in the heat of the moment, therefore I apologize.

 

[Shot-Caller]

Brother your first post can be best defined by the last line of the same post. Brother if you do not agree with what i have said, kindly go through all the pages of discussion. Still if you feel my claims are baseless, kindly point them so that we may have a healthy discussion, my viewpoint can be wrong,similarly yours can be wrong, but with the style of your arguments, it is hard to convince me.

Your second post has already been discussed on page#2 and onward by several others including me. my last post on that topic was post # 53. Kindly first go through the discussion, then comment.



Sir,

what is your opinion on the turkish politics, how civilians dealt with generals who were opposing them? Would you say turkish military has been demoralized by the "open" actions of civilians against generals who were interested in overthrowing a democratically elected government?

Now the second point
"Neithr did Zia and nor did Musharraf brought martial law on their own---the Pakistani public demanded it---Pakistani public asked for it---"

Well what constitutes the Pakistani public? some people coming on the streets and asking for martial law? what is the minimum number of people needed to bring on streets and declare that the nation wants xyz! Sir, opposition never likes the sitting govt., they always oppose them, but our power thirsty generals are always looking for an opportunity to exploit it. (post mush army's attitude has been a welcome exception).




Thankyou!

Open to a healthy discussion

I've gone through your posts. Post # 53 is about what could have been. Not what had been. So you haven't really explained how these country's are better today than they were under dictatorships. And if there's anything i can agree with you its just that we should not look away from or ignore the mistakes that army generals made. Same goes for politicians but unfortunately both get away unpunished.

 

[VCheng]

Yet your criticism is aimed solely at the PA, suggesting the situation would magically resolve if only the PA would be neutralized.

You have yet to prove that India is genuinely interested in peace. Indian actions are just as self-contradictory as anything from Pakistan.

My criticism of the PA arises from its illegal hold on power. Engaging in a peace process with India can be facilitated if the Army stays within its constitutionally defined limits, which it does not, hence the the criticism.

 

[VCheng]

Hi,

Seems like you speak out of lack of experience or a lack of knowledge-----only and only india can make peace. Any time any day----india can resolve the issue---peace is at india's discretion.

Pakistan does not have more to lose if the status quo stays the same----india has more to lose if the status quo remains the same----every extra day is giving time to Pakistan to strengthen---and when Pakistan is strong----or feeling strong---it strikes----regardless of the results----Pakistan may some but india will lose more economically.

"Only and only India can make peace"? That statement alone shows who is lacking lack of experience and knowledge. The status quo clearly favors India in the long run while Pakistan drowns in self-pity. Your second paragraph is totally opposite to reality.

 

[PurpleButcher]

I've gone through your posts. Post # 53 is about what could have been. Not what had been. So you haven't really explained how these country's are better today than they were under dictatorships. And if there's anything i can agree with you its just that we should not look away from or ignore the mistakes that army generals made. Same goes for politicians but unfortunately both get away unpunished.

I never said they are better today i said they could have been better with democracy. I also made the point that it was the dictators who in end became the cause for foreign intervention and current turmoil.

Brother thank you for agreeing to my point of not ignoring the mistakes of generals and politicians.Yes it is unfortunate that generals go unpunished, politicians well sometimes they get hanged, sometimes put into jails, sometimes exiled.... but still overall politicians also remain largely unpunished. Lets hope for just society .

 

[Rain]

Clearly a case of emotional backmail. all countries have armies for it security so is Pakistan Army. It is Army job to eliminate all those Pigs in Fata and around Fata, Its Effort should be praised, its sacrifices must be appreciated. But it is Army job to do so, it has been trained and equipped to do that.

AA is crooked writer, he has changed his Qiblas quite often, he has lost his "readership" along with his credibiltiy and now he is wrote this article to come into lime light again.

Jawan and Officiers are doing a Great Job no one should use their sacrifices for any earthly objectives.