The curious case of Indian Punjabis

[raavan]

Everyone likes to be united with his/her brothers across borders.

I am a Tamil and I feel the same for my kinsmen across the channel in Lanka.

But those feelings cant come between what is now your country. Borders have happened and it is better if we get over them and move on instead of cribbing about the past

if we cnnot change the borders atleast we can try to make them irrelevant.

 

[Manas]

I too have experienced similar emotions on meeting someone from the other Punjab. They look like us, talk like us, eat the same food, same customs, same dress but the border divides us and this is how it stands. It was just plain politics that divided us. Although I too I have often wondered how much in common do I have with a Tamil or a Bong, I look at the positive side that the interactions with these communities has enriched my own culture.

But they can't(muslims) live with you in a secular state if they are more than 60% of the population .

Once they reach 60% majorty there'll be demand for sharai based laws which negates the non muslims as second class citizens.

somewhere in the back off their mind the Khalistanis know it ,hence never talk aboput bring in muslim majortity west punjab in the fold khalstan to buid the greater state of Punjab.

Irrespective of the ethnic linguistic bonhomie , the pappy jhappies , just like Bengalis of the west Bengal with respect to BD, the sikhs of indian punab in their right mind can never fathom to live with the Muslims of west Punjab in a single country .Religion is huge issue at least for the Muslims who can't compromise on it.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

thanks for the wonderful post . that really is the essence

Just speaking my mind... he also told me a story of a sikh doctor in indian punjab who was an avid hunter... muslims took their daughters to him... and told him doctor sahab please shoot our daughters.... and by the end of it... the man who had a big trunk full of catridges had none left..... i also heard a story how refugees coming to our side... beheaded their daughters..... how women jumped into wells...when i heard abt the attrocities... my eyes got wet in my eyes... humanity was lost...

 

[KS]

if we cnnot change the borders atleast we can try to make them irrelevant.

we cannot atleast in the case of pakistan because we have too much history to attempt that folly again. Its time people grew wiser to that fact.

At the best India and Pakistan can be neighbours on a cold peace.Thats to it.

 

[raavan]

But they can't(muslims) live with you in a secular state if they are more than 60% of the population .

Once they reach 60% majorty there'll be demand for sharai based laws which negates the non muslims as second class citizens.

somewhere in the back off their mind the Khalistanis know it ,hence never talk aboput bring in muslim majortity west punjab in the fold khalstan to buid the greater state of Punjab.

Irrespective of the ethnic linguistic bonhomie , the pappy jhappies , just like Bengalis of the west Bengal with respect to BD, the sikhs of indian punab in their right mind can never fathom to live with the Muslims of west Punjab in a single country .Religion is huge issue at least for the Muslims who can't compromise on it.

well how do you explain then the fact that the same people lived together for hundreds of years before partition. The corner stone of the holiest shrine of sikhs was laid by a muslim saint called mia mir.No one forced shariah law.

---------- Post added at 12:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 PM ----------

we cannot atleast in the case of pakistan because we have too much history to attempt that folly again. Its time people grew wiser to that fact.

At the best India and Pakistan can be neighbours on a cold peace.Thats to it.

so according to you there can be no peace with pakistan???do you want another century of bloodshed?

 

[Guest01]

if we cnnot change the borders atleast we can try to make them irrelevant.

You are right. And how do you propose to make these borders irrelevant? Are you suggesting a merger of Pakistan in to India?

 

[raavan]

Just speaking my mind... he also told me a story of a sikh doctor in indian punjab who was an avid hunter... muslims took their daughters to him... and told him doctor sahab please shoot our daughters.... and by the end of it... the man who had a big trunk full of catridges had none left..... i also heard a story how refugees coming to our side... beheaded their daughters..... how women jumped into wells...when i heard abt the attrocities... my eyes got wet in my eyes... humanity was lost...

the most unfortunate part is that we did not learn a lesson from it and still kill each other in the name of country,religion etc

---------- Post added at 12:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 PM ----------

You are right. And how do you propose to make these borders irrelevant? Are you suggesting a merger of Pakistan in to India?

Just like USA and canada works or most european countries. peaceful coexistence

 

[KS]

so according to you there can be no peace with pakistan???do you want another century of bloodshed?

There can be peace, a cold peace in which we dont really care what happens to them and they dont care what happens here and everybody goes about his business.

If you want brotherly friendship, get over it..its not happening.

 

[Guest01]

well how do you explain then the fact that the same people lived together for hundreds of years before partition. The corner stone of the holiest shrine of sikhs was laid by a muslim saint called mia mir.No one forced shariah law.
so according to you there can be no peace with pakistan???do you want another century of bloodshed?

Actually it is quite easy to explain and the working example is India. People of all faith still continue to live together. In fact even when there are more muslims in India then Pakistan, we do not have such secterianism. There are odd riff raffs but that is anyway not the point that you have been seeking.

So it primarily depends on the level and threshold of tolerance in the society and how receptive the society is to a religious divide. Again we could blame the politicians or the politicians and the army on the other side but then do we not always get the king that we deserve?

What is your take on this anomaly in the mulitilateralism in India versus Pakistan. What do your friends that you referred earlier tell you about this?

 

[raavan]

There can be peace, a cold peace in which we dont really care what happens to them and they dont care what happens here and everybody goes about his business.

If you want brotherly friendship, get over it..its not happening.

I wish that was not the case...hopefully, u will stand alone in future

 

[Guest01]

Just like USA and canada works or most european countries. peaceful coexistence

Just to keep the focus on the border irrelavance thing, what do you think are the denominators driving the relationship between US/Canada & EU? What are the must have's and the must have nots in the environment to make that kind of union work?

 

[Jackdaws]

Of course there is cultural affinity and similarity on both sides of the Punjab. For the record, Jinnah wanted Muslim majority provinces to be part of Pakistan - not Muslim parts of those provinces. So till the very end, he expected that all of Punjab and all of Bengal will form Pakistan which would have been a sizable country. That would take care of Kashmir too, since Kashmir would no longer be connected to India.

 

[Manas]

well how do you explain then the fact that the same people lived together for hundreds of years before partition. The corner stone of the holiest shrine of sikhs was laid by a muslim saint called mia mir.No one forced shariah law.

Your knowledge history is poor to say the least. I don't even think you are an indian sikh.

The was uneasy peace between muslim and Sikhs existed only during the sikh rule of Punjab or during the British raj.

They can't stay together in peace in a democratic set up in the current demographic situation.

If sikhs are willing to be second class citizens then well a reunion can be considered.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

There can be peace, a cold peace in which we dont really care what happens to them and they dont care what happens here and everybody goes about his business.

If you want brotherly friendship, get over it..its not happening.

Solve kashmir issue.. and we would have no issue left to demonize eachother?

 

[KS]

I wish that was not the case...hopefully, u will stand alone in future

I am pragmatic an the problem is you are not.

There is simply too much difference to bridge the gap which is not the case of US/Canada.

Anyway you are welcome to believe what you want to believe.Not my heartburn.