THE CURE FOR THE ILLS OF DEMOCRACY

[Capt. Vinay Arora (R)]

Many people in Pakistan believe Cure for ills of democracy is more democracy.

Only cure is education, nothing else....because democracy developed and evolved around highly educated people and imposed on us and because of lower educational level our folks can't understand politics and their rights granted by constitution, further politician used ordinary folk's ignorance and divide them in caste, religion for their own benefits....India was the claimant of world's biggest democracy but look at now how a hardliner politician single handed F.....king the whole system and turning the nation into religious fanatikistan.
In my personal opinion technocracy is the need of time until unless we reach the of 90% education.
Regards,

Capt. Vinay (r)

 

[El Sidd]

Only cure is education, nothing else....because democracy developed and evolved around highly educated people and imposed on us and because of lower educational level our folks can't understand politics and their rights granted by constitution, further politician used ordinary folk's ignorance and divide them in caste, religion for their own benefits....India was the claimant of world's biggest democracy but look at now how a hardliner politician single handed F.....king the whole system and turning the nation into religious fanatikistan.
In my personal opinion technocracy is the need of time until unless we reach the of 90% education.
Regards,

Capt. Vinay (r)

cheers
Doc

 

[S.Y.A]

Let’s it work ladies and gentlemen looli langdi behri goongi whatever let’s public decide what they want. By time it’s get mature.

and you are referring to the public who vote because their saeen said so, or they got a plate of biryani? it is because of this public that we are in this situation. as allama iqbal said democracy is a system in which people are counted not weighed(according to their intellect etc.).
if you want democracy then clean up the act, simple as that. the people who are in power are the ones who made this system. and this system will in turn make sure that these people remain in power.
and the public you speak of will keep on electing these people, who have the power to make the system do whatever they want it to do. they will keep on amending the constitution to suit their own needs, they will never get arrested or held accountable for their deeds.
and the worst thing is that we did not even have proper dictators. our dictators were more democratic than our civilian rulers.
there will be no change unless there is a bloody revolution.

Only cure is education, nothing else....because democracy developed and evolved around highly educated people and imposed on us and because of lower educational level our folks can't understand politics and their rights granted by constitution, further politician used ordinary folk's ignorance and divide them in caste, religion for their own benefits....India was the claimant of world's biggest democracy but look at now how a hardliner politician single handed F.....king the whole system and turning the nation into religious fanatikistan.
In my personal opinion technocracy is the need of time until unless we reach the of 90% education.
Regards,

Capt. Vinay (r)

at least he had some experience, and from what I have read and heard on the media, he did a great job of turning Gujarat's economy around. nobody like that here unfortunately.

 

[Musafir117]

and you are referring to the public who vote because their saeen said so, or they got a plate of biryani? it is because of this public that we are in this situation. as allama iqbal said democracy is a system in which people are counted not weighed(according to their intellect etc.).
if you want democracy then clean up the act, simple as that. the people who are in power are the ones who made this system. and this system will in turn make sure that these people remain in power.
and the public you speak of will keep on electing these people, who have the power to make the system do whatever they want it to do. they will keep on amending the constitution to suit their own needs, they will never get arrested or held accountable for their deeds.
and the worst thing is that we did not even have proper dictators. our dictators were more democratic than our civilian rulers.
there will be no change unless there is a bloody revolution.


at least he had some experience, and from what I have read and heard on the media, he did a great job of turning Gujarat's economy around. nobody like that here unfortunately.

How many years civilians ruled the country? since 1947?

 

[S.Y.A]

How many years civilians ruled the country? since 1947?

Who ruled the country in the beginning? who failed to rule the country properly because of greed? tell me what did the civilians achieve? nationalization? corruption? target killings? economic crisis?

and to answer your question, civilians have ruled for 38 years out of 70 years, since 47.

wasnt it ghulam muhammad, a civilian who started to act like a dictator first? hiring and firing prime ministers? this was followed by iskander mirza, another civilian, and also the first one who imposed martial law in Pakistan. then there is dear bhutto, far more cruel and dictatorial than any military dictator. and then there are benazir and nawaz and altaf hussain.

like PTI says (and I am not supporting them either): jo log 30 saal ki hukumat main aik aisa hospital nahi bana sakay jahan inka apna ilaaj hosakay woh mulk kia khaak chalaen gay.
Musharraf was by far the most democratic ruler we have ever had in recent years. media and press freedom, local bodies system, encouraging investment in the country.
while nawaz here says that no one should criticize the govt. his police attacks and kills people in model town, his supporters attacked supreme court in late 90s, and now his supporters attacked the courts again.

 

[Yaseen1]

I think next election if held will be won by Imran khan and system will become stable

 

[rambro]

Doesnt matter waht system, what matters is the people at the top

 

[VCheng]

I sincerely hope what you're saying is true. I hope that the military does have no wish to involve itself in politics any longer. I also hope that the judiciary are truly independent, empowered and only care about the rule of law and constitution. I don't need to tell how wrong these two points have been historically, especially in the interplay of the two. Also, I would suggest that the military's political power isn't limited to a dictatorship scenario, just because it isn't visible to us, doesn't mean that it's not there.

I hope you have come across this article:

https://www.dawn.com/news/1365724

'Pakistan has never seen a crisis worse than the one it is in today': Javed Hashmi
Fahad Chaudhry October 23, 2017


Never in the country's history has Pakistan faced a worse crisis than the one it faces today, former PML-N leader Javed Hashmi said in a characteristically well-timed press conference on Monday.

The press conference was called by him to share insights on Pakistan's political and constitutional struggles, his own struggles for democracy and his brief stint with the Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI).

"This is a land that works without a constitution," Hashmi said at the start of the presser hosted in Islamabad.

Criticising the manner in which the 1956 and 1973 constitutions were formulated, he said the "civil and military powers alter the constitution at will". He added that Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto ran the country into a state of emergency.

"Then came Ziaul Haq, who himself was the constitution," he said.

"We could not become a nation which respects its constitution," he said, claiming that the country has never seen a worse crisis in its 70-year history than the one it sees today.

'Supreme Court caused more destruction than anybody else'
Talking about the role of the Supreme Court, Hashmi said: "The Supreme Court has caused more destruction in the country than any other institution."

He alleged that the court had allowed former president and military dictator Pervez Musharraf to change the constitution, although he had "broken" the Constitution twice.

However, he clarified that he was not criticising incumbent Supreme Court justices. "I know that if I say anything about the current SC, it will amount to contempt of court," he noted.

"The current chief justice [of Pakistan] publicly kissed my hand, how can I say something against him?" Hashmi asked.

He said many SC judges swore to get plots but again clarified that he was not talking about the current judges, who he said, were saints.

'Did not want to end Imran's politics'
Revealing more details of him quitting PTI two years ago, Hashmi said his decision to resign was a "suicide attack" on Imran's party.

"Had I not resigned, it would have been the last day of the parliament," he said, revealing that the PML-N had also suggested he make a forward bloc within PTI.

"Had I done that, I could have received the prime minister's protocol," he claimed.

He said he refused to make the forward bloc and that he was sure PML-N realises now it would not have been a good move.

"I had the backing of 15 PTI MNAs but I did not want to finish Imran Khan's politics," the veteran politician claimed.

'Army chief did not want nuclear tests in 1998'
Javed Hashmi, who was the minister of health in the second Sharif government, claimed that the then army chief had not wanted Pakistan to conduct its nuclear tests in 1998, adding that Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan — the architect of the country's nuclear programme — was a witness to this.

He also claimed that Musharraf had created the National Accountability Bureau (NAB) to target one political party and that the politicians will have to continue facing the bureau if they failed to create another institution for real accountability.

Hashmi has also previously accused Imran Khan of conspiring with disgruntled elements in the army to bring down the government during PTI's 2014 sit-in against election rigging.

 

[Jungibaaz]

I hope you have come across this article:

https://www.dawn.com/news/1365724

'Pakistan has never seen a crisis worse than the one it is in today': Javed Hashmi
Fahad Chaudhry October 23, 2017


Never in the country's history has Pakistan faced a worse crisis than the one it faces today, former PML-N leader Javed Hashmi said in a characteristically well-timed press conference on Monday.

The press conference was called by him to share insights on Pakistan's political and constitutional struggles, his own struggles for democracy and his brief stint with the Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI).

"This is a land that works without a constitution," Hashmi said at the start of the presser hosted in Islamabad.

Criticising the manner in which the 1956 and 1973 constitutions were formulated, he said the "civil and military powers alter the constitution at will". He added that Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto ran the country into a state of emergency.

"Then came Ziaul Haq, who himself was the constitution," he said.

"We could not become a nation which respects its constitution," he said, claiming that the country has never seen a worse crisis in its 70-year history than the one it sees today.

'Supreme Court caused more destruction than anybody else'
Talking about the role of the Supreme Court, Hashmi said: "The Supreme Court has caused more destruction in the country than any other institution."

He alleged that the court had allowed former president and military dictator Pervez Musharraf to change the constitution, although he had "broken" the Constitution twice.

However, he clarified that he was not criticising incumbent Supreme Court justices. "I know that if I say anything about the current SC, it will amount to contempt of court," he noted.

"The current chief justice [of Pakistan] publicly kissed my hand, how can I say something against him?" Hashmi asked.

He said many SC judges swore to get plots but again clarified that he was not talking about the current judges, who he said, were saints.

'Did not want to end Imran's politics'
Revealing more details of him quitting PTI two years ago, Hashmi said his decision to resign was a "suicide attack" on Imran's party.

"Had I not resigned, it would have been the last day of the parliament," he said, revealing that the PML-N had also suggested he make a forward bloc within PTI.

"Had I done that, I could have received the prime minister's protocol," he claimed.

He said he refused to make the forward bloc and that he was sure PML-N realises now it would not have been a good move.

"I had the backing of 15 PTI MNAs but I did not want to finish Imran Khan's politics," the veteran politician claimed.

'Army chief did not want nuclear tests in 1998'
Javed Hashmi, who was the minister of health in the second Sharif government, claimed that the then army chief had not wanted Pakistan to conduct its nuclear tests in 1998, adding that Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan — the architect of the country's nuclear programme — was a witness to this.

He also claimed that Musharraf had created the National Accountability Bureau (NAB) to target one political party and that the politicians will have to continue facing the bureau if they failed to create another institution for real accountability.

Hashmi has also previously accused Imran Khan of conspiring with disgruntled elements in the army to bring down the government during PTI's 2014 sit-in against election rigging.

I'm aware of most of what he's saying, and from the parts that I do know, most of it is true and it's partly what I've been hinting at myself in this thread and in others. However, the full extent and shocking details about all of this he hasn't mentioned, that's why I don't share anyone's optimism or enthusiasm for the SC's new found strength and the sudden implementation of the constitution of Pakistan, nor for any surety of proper civilian rule.

 

[VCheng]

I'm aware of most of what he's saying, and from the parts that I do know, most of it is true and it's partly what I've been hinting at myself in this thread and in others. However, the full extent and shocking details about all of this he hasn't mentioned, that's why I don't share anyone's optimism or enthusiasm for the SC's new found strength and the sudden implementation of the constitution of Pakistan, nor for any surety of proper civilian rule.

I have bluntly stated, much to my detriment here on PDF, that the present situation is no less than a soft coup in progress, and the only thing preventing it from bursting out into the open is the need to tread a fine line in order to appease international considerations. All the claims of things being different are intentionally misleading and not to be trusted, given the evidence.

 

[Neutron]

@arslan