The Criticism LCA Tejas

[Sheikh Rauf]

Bhai kuchh naya karo. Ye sab predictable and boring ho gaya hai!
Let's wait for Mark 2

Kya main itna Boora hun

mark 1 ko to induct ker lo. india airforce to lay nahi rahi isay...
larai na karo next time mig ki jaga jitnay markers hain un say border cross kerwana.

 

[sms]

You can keep believing that. And you maybe right,,,,corruption and Mediocrity is kind of our national character.
Haven't we been manufacturing fighter jets for decades now. We're they unsuccessful.What knowledge n experience have dpsus gained frm tht other thn screwdrivering. So I have little hope about knowledge, experience they gain frm lca.

Btw I'm Not saying tht we shud abandon the project but we shud definitely disconnect it from national security and pursue it purely for acquiring skills and gaining knowledge.
and of course to continue providing jobs through our JAWAHAR ROJGAR YOJNA,,,i.e. our dpsus.

And perhaps that is what is happening.
Dpsus have declared LCA tejas as successful a decade back(world class, top class, game changer n what not) but IAF still flys mig21s,, orders a meager 20+20 aircrafts,,, that too after being coerced by GOI.
If you notice, After delivery of the mk1 began even GOI became silent and is dragging it's feet on signing further mk1a orders.
Why do u think tht happened,,,, definitely not becoz lca is DURUST like u said,or had any realistic hope of being durust in time for practical purpose.

Still angry!
I can understand your frustration. I've worked with HAL and i was shocked to see theri SOP and lax attitude for engineers and management. But it was long time back. Things may or may not be different now.

As far as learning is concerned, manufacturing is all about eco system development and it's taking shape. As I've mentioned earlier wit every development things will speed up. Balletic Missile program is a very good example.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

India not continuing with the FGFA program and trying to fix the problems with the Russians will probably be the remembered as one of the worst decisions made by the IAF. To splurge almost a quarter billion dollars on each Rafael, which is at best a 4+ generation fighter and to waste money on the LCA, which will have absolutely no combat value against the Pakistanis or the Chinese really makes me worry about the Indian air force's procurement plan. Do you guys really think that a Rafael (I won't even mention the Tejas) will survive an engagement with the Su-57? Come on

Sir ji, please understand our requirement first.

Hal Tejas is not gonna to pitched against Su57, F 35, F 22,EU typhoon or any latest fighters from the world.

Tejas MK1a is a second tier fighter and will be used for defensive/interceptor role after mki, Rafale and future aircraft's like Hal Tejas mark 2,etc.

HAL tejas will be more than enough to face any threat from PAK but agreed, chinese will have the advantage with their latest fighters. So the same reason we need more capable fighters in our EAST i .e Rafale, Tejas Mark 2 etc.

 

[sms]

mark 1 ko to induct ker lo. india airforce to lay nahi rahi isay...
larai na karo next time mig ki jaga jitnay markers hain un say border cross kerwana.

Begano ki shadi me Abdulla diwana!
Sir ji aap ka kya role hai is discussion me?

Sala Mk1 to ban nahi raha app mk2 ki baat kar rahe hai. Kuch to raham karo

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

HAL to test ELM-2052 AESA on LCA-Tejas, while Deal hangs on for 83 Jets
4 days ago
0 4,502 1 minute read

Defense PSU Hindustan Aeronautic Limited (HAL) will be integrating an ELTA’s ELM-2052 Airborne AESA Fire Control Radar (FCR) procured originally for the Jaguar Display Attack Ranging Inertial Navigation (DARIN III) upgrade program in its preparation for the manufacturing upgraded 83 Tejas Mk1A which company plans to test many of the features and equipment before first Tejas Mk1A jet is ready for first flight by 2023.

The ELM-2052 is an advanced Fire Control Radar (FCR) designed for air-to-air superiority and strike missions, based on fully solid-state Active Ellectronically Scanning Array (AESA) technology, enabling the radar to achieve

1. long detection ranges,
2. high mission reliability and
3. multi-target tracking capabilities.

The ELM-2052 radar provides simultaneous modes of operation supporting multi-mission capabilities for air-to-air, air-to-ground and air-to-sea operation modes, and weapon deployment.

EL/M-2052 Elta HAL radar is a GaN-based radar with 1500 TRMs. It can track 64 targets simultaneously. It has a range of 290 km in the Air to Sea Mode while in the Air to Air Mode, it is rumored to be between 150 to 200 km for a 1 sq.m RCS, not 3 sq.m

Another very authoritative source says that based on the TRM module count and power output a good initial ballpark estimate would suggest that EL/M 2052 radar might be comparable to APG-77 or APG-81 radars. This information is kept secretive but India and Israel might be planning to develop EL/M-2052 version that uses gallium nitride TRMs.


By analogy to the Saab GlobalEye AESA radar (which was produced in GaAs and GaN versions), a GaN version of the EL/M 2052 might have up to 70% greater range than the APG-77 or APG-81 based estimate.

https://www.defenceaviationpost.com...on-lca-tejas-while-deal-hangs-on-for-83-jets/

 

[halupridol]

Still angry!
I can understand your frustration. I've worked with HAL and i was shocked to see theri SOP and lax attitude for engineers and management. But it was long time back. Things may or may not be different now.

As far as learning is concerned, manufacturing is all about eco system development and it's taking shape. As I've mentioned earlier wit every development things will speed up. Balletic Missile program is a very good example.

Why wud I be angry over somthng on internet.
Regarding ur first para,,,, they r public sector entities. They won't change.how many psu has transformed for the better be it defence, health, railway or anything. At best they will show mediocre results.

Second para- we have been license manufacturing jets for like 50yrs now. If tht was not enuff for developing eco system,, what makes u think lca wud do wonders, a jet with plenty of critical techs and weapons imported,, dpsus merely integrating thm.
And ballistic missiles,, come on now,,if hope is what u r betting on,, thn go with isro atleast.

Sir ji, please understand our requirement first.

Hal Tejas is not gonna to pitched against Su57, F 35, F 22,EU typhoon or any latest fighters from the world.

Tejas MK1a is a second tier fighter and will be used for defensive/interceptor role after mki, Rafale and future aircraft's like Hal Tejas mark 2,etc.

HAL tejas will be more than enough to face any threat from PAK but agreed, chinese will have the advantage with their latest fighters. So the same reason we need more capable fighters in our EAST i .e Rafale, Tejas Mark 2 etc.

But but but GOI and IAF don't seem to agree with you.
Just answer me this.
Our fighter Squadrons r depleting.
Foreign jets r being ordered. Even few days ago more mig29s ordered.
If what u r saying about mk1a had any truth,,orders wud have been made years ago and mig21s wud not be flying.
How do u explain this.
Ps- stop visiting BRF like sites,,, they make tejas some kind of contemporary 4+gen fighter. If it really was it wud not get token orders,, we wud not be flying mig21,,more mig 29 orders not happen and most importantly mk1a order wud have been given years back.
Basically neither GOI nor IAF seems to have any faith on tejas.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

But but but GOI and IAF don't seem to agree with you.
Just answer me this.
Our fighter Squadrons r depleting.
Foreign jets r being ordered. Even few days ago more mig29s ordered.
If what u r saying about mk1a had any truth,,orders wud have been made years ago and mig21s wud not be flying.
How do u explain this.
Ps- stop visiting BRF like sites,,, they make tejas some kind of contemporary 4+gen fighter. If it really was it wud not get token orders,, we wud not be flying mig21,,more mig 29 orders not happen and most importantly mk1a order wud have been given years back.
Basically neither GOI nor IAF seems to have any faith on tejas.

Our fighter Squadrons r depleting.
Are we going to fight a WAR near by future? No doubt that Squadrons of indian fighter planes are depleting but he fact is that we are not in WAR or WAR zone at the present.

Foreign jets r being ordered. Even few days ago more mig29s ordered.
It is a very good decision by cost wise. We have to replace our Mig 21 (54 active service) and MIG 29 UPG is more then enough to counter any threats from West. Again, Mig 29 UPG is not going to pitched against any new fighters i .e EU fighter, F 22, F 35 etc..

If what u r saying about mk1a had any truth,,orders wud have been made years ago and mig21s wud not be flying.
Already said, HAL Tejas is delayed by at least 5 years and not gonna to denied that. but, 4th generation fighters will not gonna anywhere before 2040.

MK1a is improvement over MK1 and it will not take much time (Maximum 3-4 years). by 2024, is should be ready for mask production.

Ps- stop visiting BRF like sites,,, they make tejas some kind of contemporary 4+gen fighter. If it really was it wud not get token orders,, we wud not be flying mig21,,more mig 29 orders not happen and most importantly mk1a order wud have been given years back.

Please have look at available 4th generation fighters in our neighbor countries and do the technical analysis then talk.

Basically neither GOI nor IAF seems to have any faith on tejas

No, Basically if not aware about IAF bosses then leave it. They just want best capable fighters to protect ourselves but for 2nd tire protection after front-line aircraft's.

HL Tejas Mk1a will be more than enough. specially against f 16 block 40/52 and JF 17 block 3.

 

[halupridol]

Our fighter Squadrons r depleting.
Are we going to fight a WAR near a future? is no doubt that indian fighter planes Squadrons are depleting but the also the fact is that we are nat the present.

Foreign jets r being ordered. Even few days ago more mig29s ordered.
It is a very good decision by cost wise. We have to replace our Mig 21 (54 active service) and MING 29 UPG is more then enough to counter any threats from West. Again, Mig 29 UPG is not going to pitched against any new fighters i .e EU fighter, F 22, F 35 etc..

If what u r saying about mk1a had any truth,,orders wud have been made years ago and mig21s wud not be flying.
Already said, HAL Tejas is delayed by at least 5 years and now gonna to denied that. but, 4th generation fighters will not gonna anywhere before 2040.

MK1a is improvement over MK1 and it will not take much time (Maximum 3-4 years). by 2024, is should be ready for mask production.

Ps- stop visiting BRF like sites,,, they make tejas some kind of contemporary 4+gen fighter. If it really was it wud not get token orders,, we wud not be flying mig21,,more mig 29 orders not happen and most importantly mk1a order wud have been given years back.

Please have look at available 4th generation fighters in our neighbor countries and do the technical analysis then talk.

Basically neither GOI nor IAF seems to have any faith on tejas

No, Basically if not aware about IAF bosses then leave it. They just want best capable fighters to protect ourselves but for 2nd tire protection after forntline aircraft's.

HL Tejas Mk1a is more than enough. specially against f 16 block 40/52 and JF 7 block 3.

Are we going to fight a WAR near a future? is no doubt that indian fighter planes Squadrons are depleting but the also the fact is that we are not in WAR or WAR zone at the present.
That is a very unsettling response. So Chinpak 2 front war talks r what?
So u r ready to take it in the backside once again if chin does what it did n is doing?
If we r not in war now n not going to fight one in future,,, thn why even bother with fighter jets at all. Jab hoga tab dekhi jayegi.
Or enemy will say we will fight after a year,, so u better prepare now,, right.

It is a very good decision by cost wise. We have to replace our Mig 21 (54 active service) and MING 29 UPG is more then enough to counter any threats from West. Again, Mig 29 UPG is not going to pitched against any new fighters i .e EU fighter, F 22, F 35 etc..
Exactly,,, they provide better bang for the buck which apparently lca tejas is incapable of both qualitatively n Quantitatively even though it is indigenous and more recent thn mig29, an improved 70s design.

Already said, HAL Tejas is delayed by at least 5 years and now gonna to denied that. but, 4th generation fighters will not gonna anywhere before 2040.

MK1a is improvement over MK1 and it will not take much time (Maximum 3-4 years). by 2024, is should be ready for mask production.

You say 5,,others say 15,,some 30.
Fact remains, it's very late(era of 4th gen is nearing it's end,,6th gen is being talked about)
it received order of just 40 jets. That's what it's aukaat is according to GOI n IAF.
As for mk1a,, no prototypes flying,,,,,,,, only now dpsu is planning to test an aesa radar on some lsp.
And here u r saying will not take much time. Going by thr track record 2024 doesn't sound plausible. Look at time taken between first mk1 IOC n FOC delivery.

Please have look at available 4th generation fighters in our neighbor countries and do the technical analysis then talk.
GOI n IAF already did that and additional su30, mig29 ordered,,S400 ordered, , mrca contest for 114 jets rebooted. I think they analysed plenty before doing all that.

No, Basically if not aware about IAF bosses then leave it. They just want best capable fighters to protect ourselves but for 2nd tire protection after forntline aircraft's.

HL Tejas Mk1a is more than enough. specially against f 16 block 40/52 and JF 7 block 3

Just laughable.
I will again repeat,,, if mk1a(will not even mention mk1 lemon) was actually that capable,,,mig 21 will not be flying,,mk1a wud already gotten orders not migs n sukhois getting further orders.
It most definitely is not enough,, which is why dpsus r pithching mwf, orca, tedbf n what not,,, all of which r just 4th gen, n nothing fancy.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Are we going to fight a WAR near a future? is no doubt that indian fighter planes Squadrons are depleting but the also the fact is that we are not in WAR or WAR zone at the present.
That is a very unsettling response. So Chinpak 2 front war talks r what?
So u r ready to take it in the backside once again if chin does what it did n is doing?
If we r not in war now n not going to fight one in future,,, thn why even bother with fighter jets at all. Jab hoga tab dekhi jayegi.

It is a very good decision by cost wise. We have to replace our Mig 21 (54 active service) and MING 29 UPG is more then enough to counter any threats from West. Again, Mig 29 UPG is not going to pitched against any new fighters i .e EU fighter, F 22, F 35 etc..
Exactly,,, they provide better bang for the buck which apparently lca tejas is incapable of both qualitatively n Quantitatively even though it is indigenous and more recent thn mig29, an improved 70s design.

Already said, HAL Tejas is delayed by at least 5 years and now gonna to denied that. but, 4th generation fighters will not gonna anywhere before 2040.

MK1a is improvement over MK1 and it will not take much time (Maximum 3-4 years). by 2024, is should be ready for mask production.

You say 5,,others say 15,,some 30.
Fact remains, it's very late(era of 4th gen is nearing it's end)
it received order of just 40 jets. That's what it's aukaat is according to GOI n IAF.
As for mk1a,, no prototypes flying,,,,,,,, only now dpsu is planning to test an aesa radar on some lsp.
And here u r saying will not take much time. Going by thr track record 2024 doesn't sound plausible. Look at time taken between first mk1 IOC n FOC delivery.

Please have look at available 4th generation fighters in our neighbor countries and do the technical analysis then talk.
GOI n IAF already did that and additional su30, mig29 ordered,,S400 ordered, , mrca contest for 114 jets rebooted. I think they analysed plenty before ordering.

No, Basically if not aware about IAF bosses then leave it. They just want best capable fighters to protect ourselves but for 2nd tire protection after forntline aircraft's.

HL Tejas Mk1a is more than enough. specially against f 16 block 40/52 and JF 7 block 3

Just laughable.
I will again repeat,,, if mk1a(will not even mention mk1 lemon) was actually that capable,,,mig 21 will not be flying,,mk1a wud already gotten orders not migs n sukhois getting further orders.
It most definitely is not enough,, which is why dpsus r pithching mwf, orca, tedbf n what not,,, all of which r 4th gen.

Please understand what i said first:

That is a very unsettling response. So Chinpak 2 front war talks r what?
So u r ready to take it in the backside once again if chin does what it did n is doing?
If we r not in war now n not going to fight one in future,,, thn why even bother with fighter jets at all. Jab hoga tab dekhi jayegi.

We are not at war means do not need to induct any under developed aircraft. HAL Tejas was not developed before and the same reason not inducted. Basically, you get two options: 1st induct the aircraft even is not fully combat ready (Jasu read about JF 17 development) or induct a aircraft with fully combat capability.

On this part, I am happy with Hal Tejas Mk1a ..... it gives what we need for defensive role.

xactly,,, they provide better bang for the buck which apparently lca tejas is incapable of both qualitatively n Quantitatively even though it is indigenous and more recent thn mig29, an improved 70s design.

When I said that it is better then Hat tejas Mk1a, I said that it is good decision to replace or older gen MIG 21 with Mig 29 UPG.

You say 5,,others say 15,,some 30.
Fact remains, it's very late(era of 4th gen is nearing it's end)
it received order of just 40 jets. That's what it's aukaat is according to GOI n IAF.
As for mk1a,, no prototypes flying,,,,,,,, only now dpsu is planning to test an aesa radar on some lsp.
And here u r saying will not take much time. Going by thr track record 2024 doesn't sound plausible. Look at time taken between first mk1 IOC n FOC delivery.

How many countries can make aircraft's? Ok,I will give the lists USA, Russia, EU, Britain, France, China and Sweden......

If developing a 4th gen aircraft is similar to making a toy then rest of the world would purchase aircraft's from the these countries.

Just laughable.
I will again repeat,,, if mk1a(will not even mention mk1 lemon) was actually that capable,,,mig 21 will not be flying,,mk1a wud already gotten orders not migs n sukhois getting further orders.
It most definitely is not enough,, which is why dpsus r pithching mwf, orca, tedbf n what not,,, all of which r 4th gen.[/QUOTE]

Can you elaborate more on technically and do not talk fancy??? I already told that HAL tejas MK1a is more than enough to counter any threat from West and also against many aircraft's from east. But, we need more capable fighters against EAST to protect ourselves because they are inducting more advanced fighter planes.

About MWF, ORCA and AMCA would not be possible if we could not able to developed HAL Tejas.

 

[halupridol]

Ok bro,, convo became boring now.
Yes tejas is world class, best in class, topclass class,,,,,, now mk1a will be gamchanger.Just like BRF folks say,, it's gonna be a worldbeater.
Wow,,What an achievement for India.
Ok

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Hal tejas does not come under failure category.

Half tejas mk1 = jf 17 block 2

Hal tejas mk1a = jf 17 block 3

Not sure, how it count to be failure because it's open a gate for new aircrafts.

HAl Tejas mark 2
ORCA
Etc...

Pakistan is operating over a 100 battle proven JF-17 Thunders which is deployed by another air force.

Where's LCA Flying Rickshaw, still on the truck and the whiteboard?

 

[halupridol]

Pakistan is operating over a 100 battle proven JF-17 Thunders which is deployed by another air force.

Where's LCA Flying Rickshaw, still on the truck and the whiteboard?

A poster with id- Pakistan space agency,, making fun of Indian tejas,,, oh man
Oh wait,,, u live in goraland,, ok i get it now.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Pakistan is operating over a 100 battle proven JF-17 Thunders which is deployed by another air force.

Where's LCA Flying Rickshaw, still on the truck and the whiteboard?

100 battle proven JF-17 Thunders which is deployed by another air force.

OHh means better then F22/35.. by the way, I need to check definition of battele proven after hearing from you.... On the reality, let me know if any real war case man.. thanks

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

100 battle proven JF-17 Thunders which is deployed by another air force.

OHh means better then F22/35.. by the way, I need to check definition of battele proven after hearing from you.... On the reality, let me know if any real war case man.. thanks

Here's battle proven reality for you.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Here's battle proven reality for you.

View attachment 653867​

F 16 .... Man, with missile range over 100 km.. I m agreed that f16 fighter is a battle proved.