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The Collapse of China Collapse Theory

Wow I really do enjoy reading your posts bro


Wow I really do enjoy reading your comments bro. Your are one of the very few sane members here who makes constructive arguments/points. So far I have learned quite alot from your posts. I'm kind of surprised, but are you really American? Since I find it surprising as almost all Americans members I have seen on here are rather too biased towards china, Russia and other emerging countries and hardly make any credible/consructive arguments /points to back their claims. Keep up your good work. It's always a delight to read your posts.

Coming back to topic. I completely I agree with all your points. China's main advantage is it huge hard working population, landmass, resources and it's fairly competent leadership /political system. Additionally, it still has a relatively poor/low per capital income which gives it a huge/large room for growth.
I have absolutely no doubt that China will surpass the U. S economically in the coming decade. However, GDP per capital wise it will take a very long time for that to happen more than 70years I think (if it does at all. ).
China right now is simply too big to fail, moreover it hasn't yet even reached half of it true potential. So all talk of collapse I must confess is just wishful thinking by our media and other rival countries of Chna(which is understandable, once when you have a competitor you will always wish for him to stumble so you can keep/extend your lead or overtake them in case you are behind, so nothing surprising in that ).
As for the U. S it isn't in decline like some naysayers will want us to believe, the U. S is still the world's most advance /industrialised nation on earth, and is still the fastest growing developed major economy out there. Just like China, many people have been predicting a U. S collapse/decline invane. Lol. The U. S isn't in decline, it's just that China is rising so fast it seems the U. S is declining, but they are not. The U. S still adds more to it's GDP each year than any other nation on earth except China. So the U. S isn't in decline, and we should never underestimate U. S ability to innovate /reinvent itself like it has done several times before in the past. The U. S as a developed nation which has reached its peak, is really commendable for it to still be growing at its current rate giving its huge economy and developed market. China will have a tough time to match that when it's as developed as the U. S(even though I must confess, by then Chna will be at least 3 times bigger than the U S if that's to happen. )

So the coming decade will sure be interesting as this balance of power gradually shifts with all what this means in terms of Geo politics in Asia and the world.

As leveraged buyout said its easy to get rich, but it's harder to get poor once you are rich. So the west/U.S is going nowhere, we will still be wealthy despite our slowdown. China for now will find it easier to keep growing at least 6-7percent ffor the foreseeable future since its still relatively poor and has much room for growth. When you come from a low base down, the only direction is up. So forget about Chna collapse theory, it's pure propaganda. Yes Gordon Chang I'm looking at you.:blink::big_boss:

Sorry for the off-topics post:

Thank you for your kind words. I am not an economist, but economics is peripherally related to my field, so I do enjoy studying it, as well as geopolitics. It's a bit trite, but I am guided by two principles when I post:

1). In my signature is a quote from Donald Rumsfeld, former Secretary of Defense. It's been the subject of much ridicule, but I think it encapsulates a profound truth: it's easy for us to discern those areas in which we don't have much knowledge (known unknowns), but it is much harder to distinguish between areas where we are justifiably confident in our knowledge (known knowns) and areas where we're are unjustifiably confident (unknown unknowns) because we have stopped asking questions, arrogantly assuming we know all that is necessary, when perhaps we are mistaken.

2) Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. -Plato
There are a lot of trolls here, but not everyone is looking to start a fight. Some people are misinformed, but open-minded, and sometimes I am the one who is misinformed. Regardless, even if others spew nonsense in these threads, sometimes it's simply due to an inferior education, and being trapped in a culture that doesn't reward questioning. I try to be patient, although sometimes I fail. It's important to stay humble and not descend to racism or character assassination in these discussions, if one hopes to be constructive. Why are any of us here, if not to learn? I have better things to do with my time than engaging in constant one-upmanship, or trying to prove that I am smarter.

On a macro level, these principles mean that I do not dismiss or underestimate China, Russia, or any other country. They have their strengths and weaknesses, just like we have our strengths and weaknesses. We can't control what they do, but we can control what we do, and where accommodation is possible, why would we choose conflict? Conflict is bad for business, and tends to result in having no winners.

Yes, I am American. I believe that what makes America great is its open-mindedness, it's equanimity to all, its risk-taking culture, its openness to self-criticism, and its ability to adapt. Those who were once enemies are now our friends (the UK, Germany, Japan, increasingly Vietnam), and those who were once our friends are now... not so friendly (China, Iran).

Fortunately, America is not bound by history, but rather by an idea of itself, and its place in the world. That means we are always ready to extend the hand of friendship to those we face, but the only way to open ourselves to that possibility is by not demonizing our counterparts. That's why you will never see marches in the US calling for death to Iran, or riots in the US that burn down Chinese factories. While others flex their muscles and agitate for their place under the sun, we will patiently wait for the day that we can establish truly friendly relations. Until that day, we will maintain our vigilant watch.

Finally, I never talk about my personal life on PDF, but I will say that I have worked on three continents, and have immediate family members in Russia and China, so perhaps that gives me a more optimistic perspective towards these countries than is available to most Americans.
 
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Sorry for the off-topics post:

Thank you for your kind words. I am not an economist, but economics is peripherally related to my field, so I do enjoy studying it, as well as geopolitics. It's a bit trite, but I am guided by two principles when I post:

1). In my signature is a quote from Donald Rumsfeld, former Secretary of Defense. It's been the subject of much ridicule, but I think it encapsulates a profound truth: it's easy for us to discern those areas in which we don't have much knowledge (known unknowns), but it is much harder to distinguish between areas where we are justifiably confident in our knowledge (known knowns) and areas where we're are unjustifiably confident (unknown unknowns) because we have stopped asking questions, arrogantly assuming we know all that is necessary, when perhaps we are mistaken.

2) Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. -Plato
There are a lot of trolls here, but not everyone is looking to start a fight. Some people are misinformed, but open-minded, and sometimes I am the one who is misinformed. Regardless, even if others spew nonsense in these threads, sometimes it's simply due to an inferior education, and being trapped in a culture that doesn't reward questioning. I try to be patient, although sometimes I fail. It's important to stay humble and not descend to racism or character assassination in these discussions, if one hopes to be constructive. Why are any of us here, if not to learn? I have better things to do with my time than engaging in constant one-upmanship, or trying to prove that I am smarter.

On a macro level, these principles mean that I do not dismiss or underestimate China, Russia, or any other country. They have their strengths and weaknesses, just like we have our strengths and weaknesses. We can't control what they do, but we can control what we do, and where accommodation is possible, why would we choose conflict? Conflict is bad for business, and tends to result in having no winners.

Yes, I am American. I believe that what makes America great is its open-mindedness, it's equanimity to all, its risk-taking culture, its openness to self-criticism, and its ability to adapt. Those who were once enemies are now our friends (the UK, Germany, Japan, increasingly Vietnam), and those who were once our friends are now... not so friendly (China, Iran).

Fortunately, America is not bound by history, but rather by an idea of itself, and its place in the world. That means we are always ready to extend the hand of friendship to those we face, but the only way to open ourselves to that possibility is by not demonizing our counterparts. That's why you will never see marches in the US calling for death to Iran, or riots in the US that burn down Chinese factories. While others flex their muscles and agitate for their place under the sun, we will patiently wait for the day that we can establish truly friendly relations. Until that day, we will maintain our vigilant watch.

Finally, I never talk about my personal life on PDF, but I will say that I have worked on three continents, and have immediate family members in Russia and China, so perhaps that gives me a more optimistic perspective towards these countries than is available to most Americans.

Thanks for your kind posts bro. I do respect you for your humbleness/restrain even when some members here make personal attacks against you due to ignorance/inability to counter your points with well thought facts/articles etc. Though i do know we are all humans and can often loose patience(it happens once in a while). Me myself i have seen/noticed on this forum that many people here are very biased/cat irrationally/over nationalistic to the point of been unable to think rationally/indulge in self criticism or accept criticisms. Most members here almost never indulge in criticising their country even when its obvious that their country is at wrong, and many often have so much hatred towards their rival country so much so that they indulge in personal attacks/rants/insults and trolling and will never give praise to their rival country even when its something positive. I myself usually gets fustrated at not being able to talk to someone who is ready to make constructive arguments/points and can accept he/his country was/is wrong when they are. I never insult/make personal attacks on here even when im attacked i just make my point and ignore any comments that is offensive/insulting, Thats the best way to respond to such trolls, since you cant possibly argue with someone who is baised and has already made up his mind about what he wants to believe and wont budge no matter what. so that will just be wasting my time and derailing the thread in which we are discussing.

I studied international relations in Uni and have travelled to several countries and continents and have met/interacted with quite a large variety of people from different cultures/race, so this has thought me to be able to have a proper view of the world in relation to my own country and be ready to accept criticisms and be less baised/fair in my views of the world, since i myself have witnessed first hand how our democracies in the west/U.S exploit other poor under developed countries in Africa, Asia and a few in carribean/latin america. As i said i am often sad to see this but i do understand the world is not a merry fairy tale place where all is fair/equal, countries will always try to further their interests no matter the method/way, all things goes including dirty tricks/exploitation.
No country in the world is perfect we all have our weaknesses be it 'democracies' or authocracies etc.

I like your last point which i underlined in Bold about the U.S not being bound by history, but being an idea. This is a very accurate statement, this is one thing i do love about the U.S. and this is one of the main reason why i think Asia will take at least a century to come to the level of unity we have in the U.S/west. Having been to several asian countries i can confirm that Asians rely too much in history(though i understand since they are mostly homogenous societies) and are too emotional/over sensitive to history, a little comments about historical facts in one country can lead to chaos,riots/turmoil in another country, just like we saw with the recent events in Vietnam(where else in the U.S will find a country burning others businesses/killing their citizens because of a dispute of an oil rig in disputed waters?:disagree:), same with riots in china against Japan when the japanese government nationalised the senkakus/diaoyus islands, or south Korean athletes protesting against Japan war crimes/yakushini visits during olympic games/world cup ceremonies?:disagree: same with the Japanese keeping on with their constant denials/revisions of history about the war crimes they committed which the whole world knows?:disagree: or Indians and pakistanis being at each other throats constantly over Kashmir which arouses deep resentlment in both countries towards each other. the list goes on and on......
Asia still has a long way to go, even east asia(which should be leading the way) being decades ahead of south asia is still mared in hate/disputes/divisions etc. They sure have a long way to go to match the U.S/west which can make friends with any country even its worst adverseries(look at U.S and vietnam now coming closer after the U.S carpet bomb Vietnam almost to extinction, or how U.S after nuking Japan is now Japans main ally and has troops there, same with U.S after killing millions of filipinos during their independence war is now philippines main ally and ironically still has troops there now etc) in the past, since we dont have too much historical burderns/emotion like asians do. Until they can solve that they will never be able to match the west/U.S:agree::bounce::usflag:
 
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Thanks for your kind posts bro. I do respect you for your humbleness/restrain even when some members here make personal attacks against you due to ignorance/inability to counter your points with well thought facts/articles etc. Though i do know we are all humans and can often loose patience(it happens once in a while). Me myself i have seen/noticed on this forum that many people here are very biased/cat irrationally/over nationalistic to the point of been unable to think rationally/indulge in self criticism or accept criticisms. Most members here almost never indulge in criticising their country even when its obvious that their country is at wrong, and many often have so much hatred towards their rival country so much so that they indulge in personal attacks/rants/insults and trolling. I myself usually gets fustrated at not being able to talk to someone who is ready to make constructive arguments/points and can accept he/his country was/is wrong when they are. I never insult/make personal attacks on here even when im attacked i just make my point and ignore any comments that is offensive/insulting, Thats the best way to respond to such trolls, since you cant possibly argue with someone who is baised and has already made up his mind about what he wants to believe and wont budge no matter what. so that will just be wasting my time and derailing the thread in which we are discussing.

I studied international relations in Uni and have travelled to several countries and continents and have met/interacted with quite a large variety of people from different cultures/race, so this has thought me to be able to have a proper view of the world in relation to my own country and be ready to accept criticisms and be less baised/fair in my views of the world, since i myself have witnessed first hand how our democracies in the west/U.S exploit other poor under developed countries in Africa, Asia and a few in carribean/latin america. As i said i am often sad to see this but i do understand the world is not a merry fairy tale place where all is fair/equal, coutnries will always try to further their interests no matter the method, all things goes including dirty tricks.
No country in the world is perfect we all have pour weaknesses be it 'democracies' or authocracies etc.

I like your last point which i underlined in Bold about the U.S not being bound by history, but being an idea. This is a very accurate statement, this is one thing i do love about the U.S. and this is one of the main reason why i think Asia will take at least a century to come to the level of unity we have in the U.S/west. Having been to several asian countries i can confirm that Asians rely too much in history(though i understand since they are mostly homogenous societies) and are too emotional/over sensitive to history, a little comments about historical facts in one country can lead to chaos,riots/turmoil in another country, just like we saw with the recent events in Vietnam(where else in the U.S will find a country burning others businesses/killing their citizens because of a dispute of an oil rig in disputed waters?:disagree:), same with riots in china against Japan when the japanese government nationalised the senkakus/diaoyus islands, or south Korean athletes protesting against Japan war crimes/yakushini visits during olympic games/world cup ceremonies?:disagree: same with the Japanese keeping on with their constant denials/revisions of history about the war crimes they committed which the whole world knows?:disagree: or Indians and pakistanis being at each other throats constantly over Kashmir which arouses deep resentlment in both countries towards each other. the list goes on and on......
Asia still has a long way to go, even east asia(which should be leading the way) being decades ahead of south asia is still mared in hate/disputes/divisions etc. They sure have a long way to go to match the U.S/west which can make friends with any country even its worst adverseries(look at U.S nad vietnam now coming closer, U.S after nuking Japan is now Japans main ally and has troops there, etc) in the past, since we dont have too much historical burderns/emotion like asians do. Until they can solve that they will never be able to match the west/U.S:agree::bounce::usflag:

Well said. Just a gentle request: I greatly enjoy the content of your posts, but can you please break up your text blocks into more paragraphs to aid in readability?

Otherwise, great points, and please keep up the quality contributions, which are a joy to read.
 
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Well said. Just a gentle request: I greatly enjoy the content of your posts, but can you please break up your text blocks into more paragraphs to aid in readability?

Otherwise, great points, and please keep up the quality contributions, which are a joy to read.

Yeah i know im not usually good in that. But will try bro. :cheers:
By the way why is your name leveragedbuyout? Have you been bought out(if so was it through equity or borrowed money?:cheesy::D:P
 
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Yeah i know im not usually good in that. But will try bro. :cheers:
By the way why is your name leveragedbuyout? Have you been bought out(if so was it through equity or borrowed money?:cheesy::D:P

A long time ago, I worked on the other side of the table, helping to structure and finance such deals. I like the name because I believe that the LBO represents the best elements of capitalism, with the sophisticated instruments it deploys, the discipline it imposes, and the win-win(-win) nature of such deals.
 
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China will collapse just like 80's Japan
build build build borrow borrow borrow
it's a bubble people
China isn't the only one in for a rude awakening.
 
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China will collapse just like 80's Japan
build build build borrow borrow borrow
it's a bubble people
China isn't the only one in for a rude awakening.


Aren't that what Americans are doing ? Credit card addiction.
 
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China will collapse just like 80's Japan
build build build borrow borrow borrow
it's a bubble people
China isn't the only one in for a rude awakening.

Nope. We don't listen to US daddy like Japan. ie. Signing Plaza Accord. We will be fine.
 
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The collapse of 'China collapse' theory
By Wang Wen

001ec949c22b1568dd9012.jpg


that is gordon chang :D
 
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Below is comments from Alan Phan - South Vietnam-born US investor since 1963, in talks with Chinese rich men about collapse :

According to Hurun Consulting Groups, Shanghai based, 64% of rich men ( property above 12 mil. RMB ) in China already and continue to plan to immigrate 52% choose USA, 21% for Canada, Australia 9%, Europe 7%. Two-third ready to abandon China citizenship.

He told about his experience to China, and three phases in Shanghai
1995, when he come, there's dozen of businessmen come for presenting the business plans call for investment.
2007, when he come, they show no need extra investment
2014, when he come, they rushed to him asking for Return on Investment when they immigrated to USA.

A story by a Shanghai billionaire to Alan:
He doesn't know fast or slow, but the economy would collapse for sure. There's too many troubles and scandals hide by this or that power in party. Even being a billionaire, he consider himself as a pawn to this or that power, anytime he could be executed.
His family already aboard, and it takes only 30 mins for him ( as he's alone ) to escape China. He worried about situation, to poor people, the situation would be harder.

Translated ... a Shanghai billionaire words.
I have family to America and settled . Only one body alone and just 30 minutes notice that I disappeared from Shanghai . We walked away but still love this country deeply . The atmosphere , food poisoning , and countless people culture absurd , greedy officials and bandits ... but that's just a small thing . Important thing is for the rich , powerful as we feel insecure , but Permanent ... how are poor people out there will see. A recent days , pressure will burst the lid ... and like you said ... God help us !!! "
 
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Below is comments from Alan Phan - South Vietnam-born US investor since 1963, in talks with Chinese rich men about collapse :

According to Hurun Consulting Groups, Shanghai based, 64% of rich men ( property above 12 mil. RMB ) in China already and continue to plan to immigrate 52% choose USA, 21% for Canada, Australia 9%, Europe 7%. Two-third ready to abandon China citizenship.

He told about his experience to China, and three phases in Shanghai
1995, when he come, there's dozen of businessmen come for presenting the business plans call for investment.
2007, when he come, they show no need extra investment
2014, when he come, they rushed to him asking for Return on Investment when they immigrated to USA.

A story by a Shanghai billionaire to Alan:
He doesn't know fast or slow, but the economy would collapse for sure. There's too many troubles and scandals hide by this or that power in party. Even being a billionaire, he consider himself as a pawn to this or that power, anytime he could be executed.
His family already aboard, and it takes only 30 mins for him ( as he's alone ) to escape China. He worried about situation, to poor people, the situation would be harder.

Translated ... a Shanghai billionaire words.

I wonder why they prefer the US, where they will run into the buzz-saw of the IRS (and FBAR, and FATCA, etc.). Wouldn't Singapore be a better choice?
 
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I wonder why they prefer the US, where they will run into the buzz-saw of the IRS (and FBAR, and FATCA, etc.). Wouldn't Singapore be a better choice?

As Alan, they are businessmen, they aim to do business in safe and large market.
They plan to move, because the insecurity in China to entire of their properties.
 
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I wonder why they prefer the US?

China doesn't have an extradition treaty with the US but does with many other countries such as France, Australia, etc. If it was for actually doing business, how come almost none of those "billionaires" (note: not actual billionaires. All billionaires are basically known and tracked by not just governments but also their competitors) have actually started any major enterprises or extended their previous enterprise operations overseas? I hope that is useful information.
 
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