The Cold Start Doctrine Watch.

[muse]

In an earlier post we asked :

If you read the responses of Pakistani interlocutors for what they say and do not say, you will note that they seem to have no idea of what "success" means other than the Indian frustrated -- what do you suppose it says about them and the state that created them?

Now if we review the responses of Indian interlocutors, we note that a large majority is persuaded that Cold start by any other name is a sane option -- that is to say, propelling a nuclear conflagration is a sane and reasonable action -- What does this say about them and the society that produced them and what does it say in how they view their adversary in Pakistan ?


Yes, kinda large questions, but I hope somewhere along the line we may examine them, because they are worth examining - this acceptance of nuclear war and the optimism that 1 IBG may be destroyed, and not that 5 or all may be destroyed - what then? Well it will be over won't it, I mean everything will be over, the living would want to fight to just be dead --

 

[paritosh]

When you have a belligerent neighbor with one of the largest militaries on earth...then keeping a powerful military is the only option...

Prove that we are belligerent.

 

[Developereo]

Because NASR is a short ranged ballistic missile loaded with tactical nuclear weapons.
There is a reason it has been developed. It is part of the escalation ladder.

Nasr is just the trigger. Once a nuclear tit-for-tat starts, the arsenal won't be restricted to Nasr only.

 

[Contrarian]

Nasr is just the trigger. Once a nuclear tit-for-tat starts, the arsenal won't be restricted to Nasr only.

Obviously it is.
Thats the entire point. The start of the nuclear conflict will be with a tactical nuke aimed at a strike formation already on Pakistani soil.
It is intended to mark that the threshold has been breached and Pakistan is in existential danger.

It is invariably over Pakistani soil.
The question is that India responds not with a strategic strike but with a tactical strike on the Pakistani formation that launched the Pakistani nuke.

Even if India withdraws at this stage - Pakistan has been bombed twice by nuclear weapons - and if it is in Pak Punjab then it is a critical blow against Pakistan.

 

[Developereo]

Now if we review the responses of Indian interlocutors, we note that a large majority is persuaded that Cold start by any other name is a sane option

The Indians are deluded by their self-comparison to the US or Israel and the ability to deliver unilateral punishment without any serious risk of reprisals.

The US and Israel can act that way, not just because they can deliver a punishing blow, but because they have the capability to utterly pulverize their opponent with no serious concerns of reprisals on the homeland.

India does not enjoy that kind of superiority vis-a-vis Pakistan and the Cold Start chest thumping silently ignores that fact.

 

[Contrarian]

In an earlier post we asked :

Now if we review the responses of Indian interlocutors, we note that a large majority is persuaded that Cold start by any other name is a sane option -- that is to say, propelling a nuclear conflagration is a sane and reasonable action -- What does this say about them and the society that produced them and what does it say in how they view their adversary in Pakistan ?

Your question merits a detailed answer. So will save its reply for a later time..

Yes, kinda large questions, but I hope somewhere along the line we may examine them, because they are worth examining - this acceptance of nuclear war and the optimism that 1 IBG may be destroyed, and not that 5 or all may be destroyed - what then? Well it will be over won't it, I mean everything will be over, the living would want to fight to just be dead --

The results are still the same but with more Indian casualties. Pakistan would be struck by Indian tactical nukes on its military formations.

The result will be that both the militaries would be destroyed but Pakistani soil would have been nuked multiple times by both India and Pakistan, while Indian soil would not have been attacked using nuclear weapons.

 

[Developereo]

Even if India withdraws at this stage

India can't withdraw on its own choosing. Why do you have trouble understanding plain English?

Once India launches nukes into Pakistan, the Indian mainland won't be "sitting pretty". Rest assured.

 

[third eye]

In an earlier post we asked :

Now if we review the responses of Indian interlocutors, we note that a large majority is persuaded that Cold start by any other name is a sane option -- that is to say, propelling a nuclear conflagration is a sane and reasonable action -- What does this say about them and the society that produced them and what does it say in how they view their adversary in Pakistan ?


Yes, kinda large questions, but I hope somewhere along the line we may examine them, because they are worth examining - this acceptance of nuclear war and the optimism that 1 IBG may be destroyed, and not that 5 or all may be destroyed - what then? Well it will be over won't it, I mean everything will be over, the living would want to fight to just be dead --

At the outset going to war is the silliest & last option to resolve a conflict. I cannot recall a single war that has solved a problem.

However if the push comes to a shove then all nations make plans. These require to be clear & unambiguous to all.

 

[Contrarian]

India can't withdraw on its own choosing. Why do you have trouble understanding plain English?

Once India launches nukes into Pakistan, the Indian mainland won't be "sitting pretty". Rest assured.

Unless you are planning on nuking me leave the Internet tough guy act.

You cannot 'assure' anyone about any action other than the logical option that Pakistan military has already conveyed about its intended sequence of actions.

Those sequence of actions are clear that a tactical nuclear weapon is launched on Indian formation in Pakistan. The Indian response is with tactical nuclear weapon on the Pakistani formation that launched the Pakistani nuke again on Pakistan.

The response to that escalation is a Pakistani nuclear strike on India which by its nature is strategic. THe question is would Pakistani generals do it and enter MAD or try to get a face saving scenario.

 

[Developereo]

Unless you are planning on nuking me leave the Internet tough guy act.

I am not being a tough guy, but calling your deluded bluff that India can walk away from a nuclear strike on Pakistan.

India is not the US -- best to leave your delusions.

 

[Contrarian]

I am not being a tough guy, but calling your deluded bluff that India can walk away from a nuclear strike on Pakistan.

India is not the US -- best to leave your delusions.

EDIT: Thankyou for your detailed answer and rebuttal.

I was a 'deluded' fool to debate with you.

 

[Developereo]

You fail on elucidating 'how'.
Somehow you think that Pakistan possesses nukes and that it will 'not let India get away' and what not.

I am saying the decision of whether India walks away or not is not up to India -- it is up to Pakistan.

Therein lies the crucial difference between a superpower like the US and India. The US can force that decision onto the adversary; India can not.

P.S. I am always happy to educate Indians that they are not a military superpower like the US and should not expect to act as such.

 

[muse]

Your question merits a detailed answer. So will save its reply for a later time..


The results are still the same but with more Indian casualties. Pakistan would be struck by Indian tactical nukes on its military formations.

The result will be that both the militaries would be destroyed but Pakistani soil would have been nuked multiple times by both India and Pakistan, while Indian soil would not have been attacked using nuclear weapons.

That's very optimistic -- and scary

 

[Jango]

... Pakistani soil would have been nuked multiple times by both India and Pakistan, while Indian soil would not have been attacked using nuclear weapons.

In the scenario that you are hypothesizing, you cannot keep the theater of war so small i.e Div size or Corp size...when this sort of time comes and nukes are going to be used, the bigger picture comes in and then whole of India will be targeted.

P.S: This is the umpteenth time we are discussing Cold Start on this forum!!!

 

[Darth Vader]

The Funny thing Is Nasr ( hatf ) is the most talked Missile of this century
Its Not ICBM which BRBM Its like a elephant is afraid of a ant
Why indians are thinking That Pak will only use on hatf 9 when india invades It gives them every option to use every available Weapon in the hand at that time yes Pakistans economy is not good but they cant just throw away their weapons which are protecting them
Who cares what You guys think in war their is no good or bad, every one will try to hit enemy as hard as possible