The Clash Within Civilisations: The Sunni-Shiite Divide

[kobiraaz]

All of you mentioned are due to nationalism or tribalism which is Islam's biggest enemy. But you guys are so Islamophobe that you think Islam is responsible for all that!!

 

[KS]

Essentially, modern day southern Spain (Gibraltar included) or Andalusia were ravaged by hordes and hordes of Muslim rulers even though the rule was established by the Umayyads and later on the Moors.

Ravaged by Muslims of which tribes/nationalities...?

You know how were they defeated and overthrown from Andalusia ? When the king of Spain and Queen Isabella of Portugal married, they formed one powerful force to wipe out the Moors once and for all from Andalusia. .

Reconquista. That part is known

All of you mentioned are due to nationalism or tribalism which is Islam's biggest enemy. But you guys are so Islamophobe that you think Islam is responsible for all that!!

And you are naive enough to think that a common religion would overcome the intricate network and deeply embedded feelings for ones own clan, tribe, nation. . The Shia-Sunni clash is enoug to say that Islam is at its most basic point a political idealogy and not a religion perse. No need to get offended, this is just my opinion.

Quick question - how many Arabs you see here vouch for Islamic Ummah and how many vouch for Arab nationalism ?

 

[kobiraaz]

Essentially, modern day southern Spain (Gibraltar included) or Andalusia were ravaged by hordes and hordes of Muslim rulers even though the rule was established by the Umayyads and later on the Moors. You know how were they defeated and overthrown from Andalusia ? When the king of Spain and Queen Isabella of Portugal married, they formed one powerful force to wipe out the Moors once and for all from Andalusia. And you know another interesting fact ? It was precisely a few months after that Columbus set out on his path to discover the "New World" while the Muslims who keep crowing here about Unity were fighting amongst themselves for lust of power. That is why, they who do not know their own history, when make such statements about Unity, makes one chuckle at that thought.

Your History is right , but observation is wrong. muslim kingdom Al Andalusia was strongest kingdom in Europe when Muslims were united. 700 years of unity made it the most prosperous and developed nation on earth. Do a little bit of history research! Secularism took birth here!! Jews flourished under Islamic rule. Only After intra-fighting Isabela managed to win against divided small towns like granada. Columbus had all his geographic knowledge collected by Jews amd muslims in muslim spain prior to his expedition!!

 

[DroneAcharya]

All of you mentioned are due to nationalism or tribalism which is Islam's biggest enemy. But you guys are so Islamophobe that you think Islam is responsible for all that!!

What i have described to you is common knowledge, not Islamophobia. If Islam was supposed to be a uniting force and a religion of peace, why have there been conquests upon conquests by Muslim invaders upon fellow Muslims. Simple, it runs over and above nationalism or tribalism. It has always been their bloodlust for power. Islam was just a tool to subjugate the common populace. Basically, Islam as a religion of peace is defined as :: there is a piece of you here, and there is a piece of you there.

 

[kobiraaz]

Ravaged by Muslims of which tribes/nationalities...?



Reconquista. That part is known



And you are naive enough to think that a common religion would overcome the intricate network and deeply embedded feelings for ones own clan, tribe, nation. . The Shia-Sunni clash is enoug to say that Islam is at its most basic point a political idealogy and not a religion perse. No need to get offended, this is just my opinion.

Quick question - how many Arabs you see here vouch for Islamic Ummah and how many vouch for Arab nationalism ?

Have you followed Syria?? I guess not. They chant Allahu Akbar not Syria victorious or democracy whatever!!! The fuel was always there. it just needs a spark!!

 

[KS]

Have you followed Syria?? I guess not. They chant Allahu Akbar not Syria victorious or democracy whatever!!! The fuel was always there. it just needs a spark!!

Well Sunnis, Shias, Ahmadis, Alawis all chant Allahu Akbar. So why they are at each other's throats ?

Yes it seems curious that a person who has 'followed' Syria is talking about Muslim unity, unless ofcourse you dont consider the Shias or their Alawi offshoots as Muslim.

 

[shuntmaster]

Shias have my support

Mine too.. Shia's are the more progressive and liberal ones as compared to the Wahabi Sunnis.. I hope Iranians becomes the leader of the Muslim world instead of the Arabs..

 

[kobiraaz]

Well Sunnis, Shias, Ahmadis, Alawis all chant Allahu Akbar. So why they are at each other's throats ?

Yes it seems curious that a person who has 'followed' Syria is talking about Muslim unity, unless ofcourse you dont consider the Shias or their Alawi offshoots as Muslim.

Alawits are muslim?? Have you read OP of this thread??

 

[Edevelop]

Shias have my support

As always, Indians are here to fuel internal crisis....

 

[KS]

Alawits are muslim?? Have you read OP of this thread??

Alawaites are a branch of Shia Islam and they consider themselves Muslims. They are followers of the ithna asharriyah. That is enough for me. Me wants no one passing judgement on another's religion or issuing certificates of conduct.

Farhan, do you consider the Shias as Muslims, on par with the Sunnis ?

 

[DroneAcharya]

Ravaged by Muslims of which tribes/nationalities...?

So essentially, Arabs and the recent Islamic converts in Andalusia clashed with each other, due to the racist attitudes of the Arabs. Once Andalusia was conquered, then again began this civil war amongst the governors of the city-states in Andalusia which so weakened their kingdoms that the other kingdoms united under the Roman Church simple swatted them away. So essentially you see, there is nothing called Unity. Powerlust prevails, whether then or now.

 

[kobiraaz]

Alawaites are a branch of Shia Islam and they consider themselves Muslims. They are followers of the ithna asharriyah That is enough for me. Me wants no one passing judgement on another's religion.

Farhan, do you consider the Shias as Muslims, on par with the Sunnis ?

YES! They are. I am no one to judge. they cover all the points of a Muslim, But Ahmadis and Alawits not. Shia Sunni divide is mainly political!

 

[somebozo]

Shia Sunni schiff is actually someone else power struggle re-vitalized for petty goals of local mullahs. Islam has only been a short term uniting factor with many internal power struggles. The exceptions being ottomans for a while because they were generally tolerant and multi-cultured.

For example what unites the Arabs with Syria has to do with Arab nationalism and what makes Arab oppose Iran is once again a matter of Arab vs Persian rivalry. Islam often becomes the lame excuse leading to distortion of situation..

The sooner of later we realize that Shia, Sunni, Hindu, Buddhist, Christian etc are all Pakistanis and their well being lies with in the well being of geographical boundaries of Pakistan will be the day when terrorism will end in Pakistan and country will be put on path of development. The problems is various groups especially numerous religiously motivated organisations are doing the bidding for foreign powers in failed attempts to settle scores for events occurring several hundred years ago in a completely different territory. Islam of today has become so distorted that it has become necessary to reform Islamic history and abandon a ton of it to protect the future from Intra-muslim civil war. What happened 1400 years ago cannot be used to justify something today.

We shouldn't be obsessed with that someone believes or follows - everyone has a right to go their way without interfering it others affairs.

 

[KS]

YES! They are. I am no one to judge. they cover all the points of a Muslim, But Ahmadis and Alawits not. Shia Sunni divide is mainly political!

but I get the OP does not think so. Moreover why Alawites are not Muslims when they themselves are an offshoot of the Twelvers ?

 

[Redbull]

Well Sunnis, Shias, Ahmadis, Alawis all chant Allahu Akbar. So why they are at each other's throats ?

Yes it seems curious that a person who has 'followed' Syria is talking about Muslim unity, unless ofcourse you dont consider the Shias or their Alawi offshoots as Muslim.

Ahmedis and Alawis are progressive. They have no problem with democracy and modern concepts.
Sunni, shias not so much.