The Cheapest kill -2

[Windjammer]

Wow!!Another of those feel good threads by my beloved brother Windy !!Had karte ho ap bhi!!45 saal ho gaye us baat ko hue, I mean 1971 ko, ab to isko rest karne do!!Gare murde kyun nikalte ho??

My dear, this thread has nothing to do with 1971, it's more to do with an incident during Kargil hostilities.
There's nothing feel good about it however it shows how in an eventuality, a small human error can lead to a major loss.

What do you expect out the thread?

How about trying to address the topic rather than digressing to salvage some pride.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

I am trying to picture it in my mind.
Like how the ejection of two pilots from two aircrafts at the same time look like.....
Like the look on pilots face when they realized what they have done.......
Like the look on operator of Control tower when he realized how much difference single word can make ......

I know the feeling, albeit only from a flight simulator.
Beeing the lead plane in a flight of four F-22 on a bombing mission,
I took off and while speeding down the runway, a warning message of incoming
fighters was received, so right after take-off I released the heavy bomb load
and started chasing the MiGs.
After a short time, I noticed that none of the other three F-22s were anywhere to be seen.

Ooops!

 

[Windjammer]

Ok,my bad,I just saw 1971 and some members fuming and thought it's another of those PAF success stories, my apologies. But again, I've never heard of this particular incident before.I mean I know about the Atlantic incident but losing the two migs, never heard of it.

Please refer to Post ~2.
BTW, as some Indian members claim.....it's not just the Pakistani history which is flawed.

 

[Windjammer]

One of the least publicised IAF losses of 1971 air war was when a pair of Indian MiG-21s attempted to intercept a PAF Mirage IIIRP on a night photo flash mission called ''Judy'',While the Mirage departed at high speed, one of the MiG-21 pilots continued with a text book ''Atoll'' missile attack on his own leader in mistake for the intruding Mirage reporting a hit ! The IAF ground controller was then heard calling the MiG leader aircraft unavailingly for some 30 minutes.

Some years later, the Mirage pilot involved in the recce mission, the redoubtable Farooq Umar described the incident.

Blue on Blue.

''A month before the actual start of the war a single Mirage IIIRP piloted by Squadron Leader Farooq Umar penetrated Indian airspace near IAF’s Pathankot airbase to gather intelligence on Indian Army’s armor deployment. The pilot flying at speed of 600 knots and at 3000 AGL photographed the area from Katwa (near Pathankot) till Jammu. The photo intelligence gathered from this mission was not conclusive as there were gaps in coverage due to aircraft banking to follow the terrain. A repeat mission was flown over the same area and this time the pilot used left and right rudder so that aircraft would skid instead of bank and this proved successful. The photo intelligence obtained from this mission allowed Pakistan Army to draw sufficient information about Indian Army deployments.
Later in the war, a major objective for the recce Mirages was to pin-point main Indian armor deployments as this had direct bearing on Pakistan’s strategic land offensive in the western sector. Two missions were flown in the area Kot Kupara- Muktasur on December 12, covered by IAF’s Halwara and Adampur airbases, the second of these met its assigned objective disclosing main Indian armor deployments designed to blunt Pakistan Army’s offensive south of river Sutlej. The importance of this intelligence cannot be exaggerated as confirmation of this deployment, among other factors, played an important role in the ultimate decision by the Pakistan Army of not launching a counter offensive in the west.

Another unintended benefit to PAF of these recce sorties was a blue-on-blue Mig-21 kill by IAF. On the night of December 11, Flight Lieutenant Najeeb Akhtar was detailed to fly a recce mission over Shakarganj-Jammu area to be followed 5 minutes later by Squadron Leader Farooq Umer over area south of Najeeb’s route. Most probably alerted by photo flashes from Flight Lieutenant Najeeb’s Mirage, IAF directed a two-ship CAP towards the intruding Mirages.

Inside Indian territory Squadron Leader Farooq received a call from own GCI warning of Indian bogies 40 km behind (most probably detecting the trailing No 2 MiG-21). Hearing this Squadron Leader Farooq started his photo run at 3000 ft AGL and 400 knots. Shortly afterwards Farooq saw a yellow flash in the rear view mirror and at the same time got a call from own GCI asking immediate break as bogies were closing rapidly. Making a 4g slightly nose down left break, on full instruments in IFR conditions on a pitch dark night, Farooq egressed to Pakistan and while breaking saw a yellow flame passing by and going into the ground. Immediately later, Pakistani ELINT posts overheard calls from an Indian pilot trying to locate his leader and getting no reply. It later transpired that while trying to intercept Squadron Leader Farooq, the No 2 IAF MiG had shot down his own leader.

 

[laphroaig]

salvage some pride.

Sir, didn't you guys lose both those wars? And half of your country in one?

 

[Windjammer]

Sir, didn't you guys lose both those wars? And half of your country in one?

Old wine in new bottle.
Once again, we are not discussing the war here and there was no war happening in August 1999.

 

[laphroaig]

Old wine in new bottle.
Once again, we are not discussing the war here and there was no war happening in August 1999.

Seems to me its not us doing any salvaging here.

Do carry on.

 

[Windjammer]

Seems to me its not us doing any salvaging here.

Do carry on.

The salvage effort has been deleted and discussing some incident isn't exactly salvaging...is it.

 

[laphroaig]

The salvage effort has been deleted and discussing some incident isn't exactly salvaging...is it.

No its not Windy. Don't you get tired man? Jaded? Bored?

 

[Iggy]

@Windjammer , once should wonder how No. 24 Squadron, named the Blinders Squadron Leader M. Iqbal and his navigator Squadron Leader Saifullah Khan Lodhi got shot down also..

 

[Windjammer]

@Windjammer , once should wonder how No. 24 Squadron, named the Blinders Squadron Leader M. Iqbal and his navigator Squadron Leader Saifullah Khan Lodhi got shot down also..

Because the B-57 and Canberra look identical , there are many such incidents ... see post ~13.

 

[Iggy]

Because the B-57 and Canberra look identical , there are many such incidents ... see post ~13.

So you do know that friendly fire can happen in any country.. So get down off your high horse mentality.

 

[Windjammer]

No its not Windy. Don't you get tired man? Jaded? Bored?

My dear, albeit every subject under the sun is discussed here but realistically it's a defence forum.

So you do know that friendly fire can happen in any country.. So get down off your high horse mentality.

THe above answer applies to you as well.

 

[laphroaig]

it's a defence forum.

True. And in your favor, we are the only real army you've ever gone up against. So I get the limited scope of reference.

But again. Does it not get boring after a while?

 

[Windjammer]

True. And in your favor, we are the only real army you've ever gone up against. So I get the limited scope of reference.

But again. Does it not get boring after a while?

Any day there are more Indian members on this forum than Pakistanis and you couldn't have missed how they like to portray Pakistan in their selective choice of news and topics, on the contrary, visit any Indian forums and decide how many Pakistanis are allowed there.... as they don't have the mind or appetite to accept any criticism alas it's just a case of blind leading blind.