The case against Hafiz Saeed

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

AM bhai, How hard is it to START the process of legislation? Aap log usko hiraasat main rakh ke investigate to karo..
Then if you dont find evidence you can let him go.

Saeed was kept in custody for the maximum number of days allowed under the Pakistani constitution (1 month I believe). The government cannot keep him under arrest legally anymore.

Hence the GoP's attempt to use the UNSC resolution as a reason, rejected by the Pakistani courts since the UNSC resolution does not bind a nation to arrest an individual.

Without following on the leads how can you reject whatever GoI provides out of hand?

That's the point - how do you know the leads were not followed up on and did not show anything?

Like I said before, the walls and ground are not going to start talking and say Saeed was here plotting Mumbai. Kasab is one man - his confession alone (if true and not coerced) is a matter of 'he said she said', and not enough convict.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Ah, denial again. Oh C'mon man, be a man and accept that faults lies with you (Pakistan state).

How can th efault lie with us when there is obviously no damning evidence to implicate Saeed?

Can you show me this damind evidence or provide a link to it, because so far the evidence mentioned by Lamayuru falls woefully short.

So it is not Pakistan that is in denial, but rather India, that wants Pakistan to convict a man just on what amounts to her say so.

You say that evidence is lacking even after presenting all the evidence that Indian authorities collected. Apparently the Indian authorities are incompetent because the evidences collected are discarded as not quite enough by the superior Pakistani authorities, the very authorities who have an excellent track record of nabbing terrorists and bringing them to book. Oh history is replete with numerous instances wherein Pak authorities have nabbed many a terrorists and sentenced them successfully. The irony is not lost on worlds' observers.

What irony? The evidence provided by India is, I thought, summarized by Lamayuru here, and is not conclusive or damning by any means.

That's the primary reason why Indians refused for a joint-investigation team. Who's to say that evidence collected will not be transferred to the terrorists by 'rouges' in your team and help them escape.

I suspect the Indians did not want a joint investigative team because then they woul dnot have been able to make a scapegoat out of Pakistan for political purposes, and then they would not be able to argue that Pakistan is not investigating, since this very miserable excuse of evidence would have resulted in Saeed being let off, as is the case now. and the 'joint investigative team comprising India', would have left India with with no one to blame.

Happened during the Kandahar hijacking of IA flight. No matter how much you may want to remain in a state of denial, the truth is out there for everyone to see, and that's why Pakistan finds itself in a situation as it is in today. Give me any other sane reason to the contrary.

Kandahar hijacking was between you and Afganistan, and your government was responsible for releasing whoever you did release. Don't blame us for your decisions.

You are not obliged by any international laws to accept any evidence pointed out to you and act accordingly, and you do choose not to obey. But this denial and arrogance of brushing off painstaking work by investigators from around the globe will harm Pak interests in the long run.

Oh we accepted the evidence, the problem is that it just isn't even close to enough for convicting Saeed. The evidence against the two masterminds, Shaha and Lakhvi (among others), we are using to prosecute.

Now this may happen in India, where evidence is concocted or the judiciary passes guilty verdicts against so called terrorists on the flimsiest of pretexts, but don't expect Pakistan to follow your example here.

Again, the evidence India has collected, if not more than what Lamayuru mentioned, is nowhere close to damning or enough.

 

[lamayuru]

Now this may happen in India, where evidence is concocted or the judiciary passes guilty verdicts against so called terrorists on the flimsiest of pretexts, but don't expect Pakistan to follow your example here.

Again, the evidence India has collected, if not more than what Lamayuru mentioned, is nowhere close to damning or enough.

Ok AM thats enough! PC goes to US. If the Pakistani Govt ends up prosecuting Saeed a few days down the line will you swallow your pride and eat your own words? The evidence I presented is by no means complete. It is only what Chiddu chose to reveal on a TV show! How can you take it as an end all. Obviously our Hon'ble Home Minister has been a lawyer and knows he has a fighting case at hand. He is going to walk the Americans thru the dossier, who then walk the Pakistani establishment through the dossier and tell them if you want USD 7.5B over 5 yrs you gotta..gotta..

For an establishment that rushes to Saudi to solve internal political strife, I think our folks in the Ministry of Home Affairs have figured out how to work with you. The road to justice in Islamabad, if originating in New Delhi, detours via Washington DC!

And dont tell me your Govt is still not reconciled to the "There are no good terrorists" pledge!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Ok AM thats enough! PC goes to US. If the Pakistani Govt ends up prosecuting Saeed a few days down the line will you swallow your pride and eat your own words? The evidence I presented is by no means complete. It is only what Chiddu chose to reveal on a TV show! How can you take it as an end all. Obviously our Hon'ble Home Minister has been a lawyer and knows he has a fighting case at hand. He is going to walk the Americans thru the dossier, who then walk the Pakistani establishment through the dossier and tell them if you want USD 7.5B over 5 yrs you gotta..gotta..

We'll see what he accomplishes in DC, but if he is able to convince the GoP to prosecute Saeed and obtain a conviction (remember, the Pakistani courts have rebuffed the current GoP on several occasions now, and are not likely to care much about GoP pressure to convict), with only the currently provided evidence, I'll eat my words that the evidence was not sufficient.

And why is the entire evidence being hidden? Don't the Pakistanis already have it and is it not going to be used in a public trial? Does the accused not get to see all the evidence against him so that he may refute it? So what purpose is served in hiding it?

For an establishment that rushes to Saudi to solve internal political strife, I think our folks in the Ministry of Home Affairs have figured out how to work with you. The road to justice in Islamabad, if originating in New Delhi, detours via Washington DC!

And dont tell me your Govt is still not reconciled to the "There are no good terrorists" pledge!

DC is not going to put your interests above its own, and it still has a lot it is demanding of Pakistan. That 7.5 billion can only be used as blackmail in so many instances

Good luck PC.

P.S: There are no 'good terrorists', they are all 'bad'. There are some people who just are not terrorists.

 

[lamayuru]

evidence being hidden

Who is doing the hiding? The Indian minister is reading it out on nationwide broadcast TV. While Pakistan is BUSY conducting a closed doors in-camera investigation.

blackmail

So you admit Pakistan responds to blackmail the degree of which corresponds to how far anyone is willing to go. I can tell you if US wants they can close the FDP lottery also.

There are some people who just are not terrorists.

LeT is written all over Mumbai. Hafiz heads LeT. I want some part of what you have been smoking.

Actually, no thanks.

 

[afriend]

I cannot be sensitized to the fact that he was involved in plotting or perpetrating the Mumbai attacks unless there is evidence implicating him in them - evidence that is clearly lacking at this point.

Evidence lacking..?? India had given a dossier to pakistan.. and could you tell me what is lacking in that..!!

But sure.. i fee now that.. if whatever evidence that india gives, if other wise would have been admissible in the court of law is not still adequate for you coz it is given by india.. then i think its naturall to any peace loving person that pakistan is still not serious enough to bring the perpetors to the book.. it also gives mee feelers that state actors are involved in this plot..!!!!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Who is doing the hiding? The Indian minister is reading it out on nationwide broadcast TV. While Pakistan is BUSY conducting a closed doors in-camera investigation.

Forgetting your own words already? Here, let me remind you:

"The evidence I presented is by no means complete. It is only what Chiddu chose to reveal on a TV show! How can you take it as an end all."


In any case, if the evidence is complete, then it is IMO, for the reasons I mentioned, really not damning enough, which is also evident from the comments suggesting that the Pakistani authorities conduct further investigations by following up on the leads related to the locations mentioned.

So you admit Pakistan responds to blackmail the degree of which corresponds to how far anyone is willing to go. I can tell you if US wants they can close the FDP lottery also.

Every nation tries to use 'blackmail/influence' whatever you want to call it, to achieve its ends. That the US is attempting to do that does not mean Pakistan will necessarily respond - one could also argue that Pakistan is 'blackmailing using its influence by virtue of its position in the WoT to get what it wants from the US, and the US only responds to such 'blackmail'. Nothing isolated to Pakistan.

LeT is written all over Mumbai. Hafiz heads LeT. I want some part of what you have been smoking.

Actually, no thanks.

Don't smoke - so you are out of luck.

Saeed does not head LeT any more - he heads JuD. Therefore implicating the LeT in this does not automatically implicate Saeed.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Evidence lacking..?? India had given a dossier to pakistan.. and could you tell me what is lacking in that..!!

Please read previous posts to see my arguments against the evidence provided by India as being damning or enough.

 

[lamayuru]

evidence .. by no means complete

Ack! Let me set the record straight.

The evidence is incomplete in the sense that he did not read out everything in the dossier. So to me and you, the junta class, it is incomplete. But they have shared the dossier with the Gs of 16 countries, including P. So your G should be more informed regarding leads it can proceed with.

if the evidence is complete

as per GoI's HM it is. That may not be gospel, but it still carries more wt than you disputing it.

, then it is IMO, for the reasons I mentioned, really not damning enough

speculation speculation speculation. We dont know whats even in there so lets refrain from any more comment on the looseness of the case.

Saeed does not head LeT any more - he heads JuD

Is JuD still openly collecting chanda for jihad outside your mosques? Or have they been cleverer with the guise this time round.

 

[afriend]

BAHHH what ever!!!

Pakistan arrested JuD Chief but there is not enough evidence, if India is so much interested in trail then hand over enough proof so that the JuD chief can be convicted, handing over JuD Chief to India is absolutely out of question & by the way is there ANY news in Indian media about Lt. Col. Prohit, who stole the RDX from army ranks to blow up Pakistanis where the hell is he, even that incident within a few hours was blamed on Pakistan what about handing Col to Pakistan, India is just playing the blame games, after Sharm Al Sheikh when Indian PM confessed the involvement in un rest in Balochistan after which he faced the criticism back at home now Indian government body has started this campaign of giving statements against Pakistan & Indian COAS is also doing that 'statement game'

India's statement that 'talks wont resume until action against alleged terrorists' is weird one, there is not enough evidence to convict any one, at Sharm Al Sheikh Indian PM agreed to 'talk' but now the attitude has changed once Indian PM landed in India, this duality by Indians is......

Well to answer your question.. you might be surprised to learn that Col purohit is still cooling his heels in indian prision. And not walking scot free ploting another MAJOR BOMB ATTACK ON PAKISTAN as you allege. And Handing over to pakistan..?? Where the hell that came from..??

And it is a known fact by now, that pakistan cannot hand over saeed or any other master minds for terrorists attacks in india, even if we provide pictures of a smiling saeed handing over a an attom bomb to kasab..!!! .. that still wont be an evidence CONCRETE enough... well lets just assume and blame it all on the hatred we have generated over the years..!! Coz we never is going to hand over each others citizens no matter how dreaded a terrorist he is becoz we love to hate each other more than our determination to prosecute these terrorists..!!!

And please dont INVENT things like indian PM confessed to indias alleged role in Baluchistan and stuff coz if you do i would say you are really ill informed and is a victim of propoganda..!!!

 

[lamayuru]

Mumbai's top cop won't let another 26/11 happen: Rediff.com news

Mumbai Police Commissioner on Kasab & Pakistan

Pakistan has refused to accept the testimony of accused Ajmal Kasab, who is in your custody, against the Lashkar-e-Tayiba's founder Hafeez Saeed.

As a Mumbai police officer I will only say that it is our job to go thorough the investigations. As far as the trial is concerned, it is going on very well.

The evidences are coming up properly. What will be the outcome is anybody's guess. It is sub judice so I can't speak more.

As far as producing the evidence for Pakistan is concerned, we can't comment on their requirements and their daily change of diplomatic views and diplomatic policies they take. It is for them and our government to decide.

Whatever our government is asking us, we have been giving them all the replies to the best of our knowledge.

So what all it will take to convince the Pakistan government, only God can answer that question!

Do you have any evidence against Hafeez Saeed?

Whatever evidence we had, we have given to the ministry of home affairs. The MHA and the court are satisfied. But what if someone doesn't want to get satisfied at all? It is like (fugitive gangster) Dawood Ibrahim's presence or absence. You know the issue very well.

You take a definite stand and don't want to change, then nobody can change you. I would not comment on the stand of the Pakistani government and what it will take for us to satisfy them. But we have done our best.

Whether Kasab is Pakistani or not is a foregone conclusion. The variety of stands they have taken is well known to you.

We have nothing to say on Pakistan. An open trial is going on.

 

[ratolz]

MUMBAI: Endorsing India's view that 26/11 terror mastermind Hafiz Saeed and five other suspects be brought to justice, US Ambassador Timothy J

Roemer said Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba posed a "regional and global" threat.

"I hope that in future the action on 26/11 includes people like Hafiz Saeed is taken. Recently he was put into an Interpol red flag list," Roemer said.

The US is expending personal treasure and resources to help dismantle infrastructure of terrorism in this region, he added.

In the 26/11 attacks, people of India suffered tremendous hardship and loss and devastation, Roemer said.

"It is time to reflect on the common enemy of the US and India. We share concerns about LeT, al-Qaida and Taliban and the threat emanating from that part of the world and we are working closer and closer together as two great powers to take on a common enemy and bring blood-thirsty perpetrators of these attacks to justice," Roemer said.

"When scores of Indians are killed, when six Americans are killed, this is a priority for our country and I know it is a priority for India," he said.

The Indo-US relationship is an extremely positive relationship, Roemer said. "Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was here, expressing deep interest on part of our government. She came to India, went to a conference in Bangkok and then went home. She did not go to any other place in the area. She values this Indo-US bilateral relationship,” he added.

"President (Barack) Obama told me this is one of the most important and best relationships we will have in the world," Roemer said.


US to Pak: Bring 26/11 suspects to justice - India - NEWS - The Times of India

 

[R.A.W.]

Oops !!!! Chindu did something in US that means.

 

[Developereo]

He is the US ambassador to India. Of course he will pander to Indian sensibilities. What did you expect him to say, "Forget about it" ???


Times of India.

 

[R.A.W.]

He is the US ambassador to India. Of course he will pander to Indian sensibilities. What did you expect him to say, "Forget about it" ???


Times of India.

Sorry sir actually that means chindu did something creditable creating a public opinion

What was your ambassador doing in the mean time to counter our chindu? Oh yes your president was issuing statement that we will not use our land against Indians before any statement comes from US to be on the safer side.