The Bollywood-ization of Pakistan

[su-47]

All religions effect culture, how could they not - but ISLAMISTS seek to replace culture itself with their definition of religion as culture.

actually i think the islamists are fighting more for culture than religion. they are fighting to establish their culture, which is their twisted interpretation of Islam. islam does not advocate the subjugation of women or killing of innocents, but the islamists encourage it. from this we can deduce that they are not fighting for religion, but for a demented culture cultivated by twisting religion to suit their beliefs.

 

[muse]

As predicted, When it came to Pakistani women -- you will note, the thread went dead on that issue.

The ultimate N***er.

actually i think the islamists are fighting more for culture than religion

Good man.

 

[jeypore]

Ok - lets summarize


Some Pakistanis (trend makers) freely choose to identify with Indian culture - this is all the more curious, given the hostility between the two countries and especially given the ideologically driven Pakistani state and religious establishment.

People are nostalgic some say -- yet why should or would people be "nostalgic" about something thay have never known?? So, it's not nostalgia, it is a new phenomenon.

Then there is the social Darwinism idea - and that seems the most satisfying, you will recall the following statement:
."

This a remarkable statement - Pakistani Islamist ideology is then a net "loser" is it not? It is barren, it fails. Is this not so??

And so the implication of state policy??

Some here have argued culture is not related geo-politics - Easy there Chan Akya!! Everything is related. Clearly Pakistanis seem to see much to admire and identify with in Indian culture, how can this not have a geo-political impact??

Now - since Pakistanis like the singing and dancing, being free and having fun bit - why is their own culture deficient in this regard?? Was it always like this?? What changed??

Well people in mumbai wants to be associated with western culture, specifically with the United States and Great Britain. It tends to make them feel more modern. I believe religion started culture, but the culture is not static it is paragdim shift of every decade or so, While religion is static.

 

[muse]

Well people in mumbai wants to be associated with western culture, specifically with the United States and Great Britain. It tends to make them feel more modern

The question is why do they want to be associated with "Western Culture" - you say it makes them "feel" modern - whatever "modern" is -- but what is it about the Western culture" that they value?? After all, they must imaine that it is beneficial, that it offer them something that they consider to be a "good" -- so what are these "Good"?

In the same way, the lead article suggests that Pakistanis too must see some "good" in the indian culture, that they do not find in their own.

Still no one takers on women?

 

[su-47]

The question is why do they want to be associated with "Western Culture" - you say it makes them "feel" modern - whatever "modern" is -- but what is it about the Western culture" that they value?? After all, they must imaine that it is beneficial, that it offer them something that they consider to be a "good" -- so what are these "Good"?

In the same way, the lead article suggests that Pakistanis too must see some "good" in the indian culture, that they do not find in their own.

Still no one takers on women?

some youth see indian culture as restrictive. most indian parents will refuse to let their daughter go to a late night club with her male friends. also, in indian culture the concept of 'boyfriend and girlfriend' are non existent. so the people who feel restricted by indian culture adopt concepts from western culture to suit their needs.

 

[Muradk]

some youth see indian culture as restrictive. most indian parents will refuse to let their daughter go to a late night club with her male friends. also, in indian culture the concept of 'boyfriend and girlfriend' are non existent. so the people who feel restricted by indian culture adopt concepts from western culture to suit their needs.

Su-47 you know that I respect you and your remarks always but today I have to disagree, The QUOTE above it a total opposite of what you are saying. I was in India as a state guest in 1999 Mumbai, One of my friend who is a retired AVM from IAF took me around and to my surprise you guys had more than 2500 night clubs with booz in Mumbai and I only saw young boys and girls.
I am not saying that every one is like that yes there are parents who do what you say but not all, Now things are changing, To much western culture mixed with bollywood I say.

 

[Muradk]

Asim why didn't you tell me we fought with india in 61 all the time you been saying 65 I am a member of TT I should know such things. Don't you think so.

 

[su-47]

Su-47 you know that I respect you and your remarks always but today I have to disagree, The QUOTE above it a total opposite of what you are saying. I was in India as a state guest in 1999 Mumbai, One of my friend who is a retired AVM from IAF took me around and to my surprise you guys had more than 2500 night clubs with booz in Mumbai and I only saw young boys and girls.
I am not saying that every one is like that yes there are parents who do what you say but not all, Now things are changing, To much western culture mixed with bollywood I say.

Sir, i think my post was a little vague. please let me elaborate.

i am not saying that india doesnt have nightclubs, or that the nightclubs are not frequented by the youth. what i am saying is that it is the adoption of western culture that has resulted in these nightclubs popping up.

the effect of media is amazing. it can show the people a new world of possibilities. then they realise that indian culture is restrictive, and adopt parts of western culture they can identify with. 20 years ago, most kids in india wouldnt even think of going to nightclubs. but after seeing the youth on tv frequenting nightclubs, these kids also want to go. the tv has opened up a new world of possibilites. even parents have accepted western culture. they are often reluctant to let the kids go, but have to concede.

but this adoption of western culture is mainly seen in Mumbai, Delhi, Bangalore and other large cities. in smaller towns and villages, people shout at girls for wearing jeans!

 

[jeypore]

The question is why do they want to be associated with "Western Culture" - you say it makes them "feel" modern - whatever "modern" is -- but what is it about the Western culture" that they value?? After all, they must imaine that it is beneficial, that it offer them something that they consider to be a "good" -- so what are these "Good"?

In the same way, the lead article suggests that Pakistanis too must see some "good" in the indian culture, that they do not find in their own.

Still no one takers on women?

It is the effect of bollywoodism. The dress and the glamore is what the people are associating with not the actual culture. To see this, all you to have go is in American high school where the kids dress and talk like the hollywood actor/actress that is in for the year.

 

[muse]

Maybe bollywood takes it cues from society - -after all bollywood is not some factory producing original ideas -- Bollywood may "popularize" or deliver certain ideas to place and populations that it would have taken longer for these ideas to reach, to be sure.

Bollywood nor Hollywood is not pushing people to find particular ideas, behaviours, fashions as appealing -- free peoples decide that for themselves, perhaps not as conscious decisions, but people know that they like.

Anyay, it is a fascinating battle of ideas - with some Pakistani finding space and comfort in identifying with things Indian, while suggesting that the "winning" aspect of the culture's international acceptance is appealing to them (like Osama said, everyone wants to be with the winning horse) -- and curiously, not identifying with Western Culture, which in terms of appeal is, it seems beyond competition.

How does one explain this -- My explanation did not appear to convince many nor get them to look at things in a different manner, so how would others explain this curiosity?

 

[Logic note]

The question is why do they want to be associated with "Western Culture" - you say it makes them "feel" modern - whatever "modern" is -- but what is it about the Western culture" that they value?? After all, they must imaine that it is beneficial, that it offer them something that they consider to be a "good" -- so what are these "Good"?

In the same way, the lead article suggests that Pakistanis too must see some "good" in the indian culture, that they do not find in their own.

Still no one takers on women?

Answers has many layers
1) Sense of rebellion of an individual over society . trying to prove his or her existence by breaking so called old social customs which were based on medivial thinking
2) western culture is modern culture which we all together developed . it gives priority to ethics and not morality hence an individual get his right to act as per his wish (within the limits of ethics)

3) woman ? what about woman ?

 

[Logic note]

Maybe bollywood takes it cues from society - -after all bollywood is not some factory producing original ideas -- Bollywood may "popularize" or deliver certain ideas to place and populations that it would have taken longer for these ideas to reach, to be sure.

Bollywood nor Hollywood is not pushing people to find particular ideas, behaviours, fashions as appealing -- free peoples decide that for themselves, perhaps not as conscious decisions, but people know that they like.

Anyay, it is a fascinating battle of ideas - with some Pakistani finding space and comfort in identifying with things Indian, while suggesting that the "winning" aspect of the culture's international acceptance is appealing to them (like Osama said, everyone wants to be with the winning horse) -- and curiously, not identifying with Western Culture, which in terms of appeal is, it seems beyond competition.

How does one explain this -- My explanation did not appear to convince many nor get them to look at things in a different manner, so how would others explain this curiosity?

there are few individuals in every society who looks for more space to get away from rules of society . few Pakistani find Indian culture more "spacious" compared to Pakistani Culture while few Indians Finds more space in Western or modern culture .

 

[muse]

Given the mass popularity of bollywood in Pakistan, your suggestion that these are "few", would seem in conflict with this mass appeal.

 

[Logic note]

Few is subjective ..
everyone has his one few

 

[muse]

Sorry logic, but that's a bit too profound for me.

What?